Jump to content

Sophie Is Swollen And Pineconing


Sakura

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

Update for today: everyone is bottom sitting almost 100% of the time. Only Sophie occasionally gets off the bottom to swim around when I come near the tank, but even when she swims around she seems to have a hard time. Sophie and Tellie are gasping a lot - it almost looks as if something is stuck in their mouths, but there isn't anything. I will upload a video showing this behavior. Every once in a while I catch Mandarin swimming around a little bit, but usually he bottom sits too. Tellie acts like she can't even get off the bottom, even when she tries. I did notice some poo of hers today and it was long, stringy, and clear-ish white. I plan on doing a 75% water change later today and re-administering the meds as per the instructions on the container. It's so frustrating to see them like this despite my efforts :(

Video of gasping behavior:

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu305/miss_cherry_blossom/?action=view&current=MVI_3825.flv

Some photos of Mandarin and Tellie:

IMG_3821.jpg

IMG_3823.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate it :) They're not doing so well. They're all still bottom sitting constantly and acting like they might be having trouble breathing possibly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I hate saying this, but I don't think Tellie is going to make it. She keeps acting as if there's something stuck in her throat when there's nothing there. She thrashes frantically like she's trying to get it out, and then just kind of drifts when she gets tired. It's so depressing not to be able to do anything for her. Isn't this a sign of gill flukes? She's one of my favorites :( If it might be gill flukes I could separate her and treat her specifically for that, but I think it may be too late. :( :( At this moment she's sitting on the bottom with dorsal down and gasping heavily.

Sophie is still pineconed, but maybe not bottom sitting as much. Mandarin seems to be improving with much less bottom sitting as well.

Edited by Sakura
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Sakura its beginning to sound like your fish have flukes. Did you ever treat with prazi?For some reason I assumed so as all new fish should be treated with salt and prazi to eliminate flukes and parasites.

I am sooooo sorry that I didn't catch onto this earlier. It is not too late. Prazi kills the main bulk of flukes in the first day. How soon can you get some?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

All I did when I got them was one round of Jungle parasite clear tabs, which I only recently learned needs to be more than one dose. Prazi? I could get some today if they sell it at any of my local fish stores nearby. I probably need it anyways, because I got a new fish yesterday, who is in QT don't worry! :) Don't be sorry, I'm sure it's really difficult to diagnose a problem without being in person!

What are brand names I should look for with the prazi? Parasite clear tabs contain it, but I know there's a harsh ingredient in there that's usually avoided. However, that's the only prazi medication we sell at my work, so if possible I'd like to get that because I do get a discount on it. Otherwise maybe some other lfs has prazipro by Hikari, and that would work right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The PC tabs will work fine, but you do need to do more than one dose for sure. They do look unhappy. One thing worriesome is that you use the same equipment for all of the tanks which means everyone needs to be treated. If you can get different equipement for the QT tank it is much better because you can transmit all kinds of stuff in one little drop of water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh well that's discouraging :( Okay, logistically it would just be impossible at this time for me to keep different equipment for each tank, and besides I've already used certain things between tanks - even for my new one in QT. :doh11: So, I guess I'll just have to buy enough PC tabs to treat everyone at the same time. That will work, right? Now I'm definitely going with PC tabs, because it looks like I'll need that discount! hah

I'd appreciate if someone could offer some type of treatment schedule. I've seen Lupin post this one many times before and saved it for future reference:

Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- do nothing

Day 4 -- do nothing

Day 5 -- do nothing

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi

Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

The only thing is, when it says to "add prazi" how much is added? In the case of PC tabs, will it mean just add another full dose of it without a water change? So for days 6 and 7 it will be two full doses of PC tabs in a row. Is this right? Can flukes cause dropsy symptoms like Sophie is having? Also, is this treatment going to be too harsh for my live plants? I have moneywort, java moss, java fern, some swords, and red ludwiga. I'm adding flourish excel to the 55 gallon currently, will that mess up the prazi and salt medication? Thanks for the help- I know I have so many questions :)

Edited by Sakura
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Yep, PraziPro is what you're looking for at the LFS. The better aquarium stores sometimes stock it (big box stores generally don't). As Trinket said, it will kill the majority of the flukes right away -- repeat treatments help zap the flukes that subsequently hatch. Praziquantel is the active ingredient you're looking for. It's ideal if you can get PraziPro (or online you can order Aqua Prazi), so that it doesn't contain other (sometimes harsher) meds that your fish don't need right now.

Start callin' those fish stores! smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hey, I still have four hours to make it to some fish stores before they close for the day, but I'm confused now. One person said the PC tabs will be fine, and the other said they won't. I'm really low on money right now, so I'd prefer to buy the PC tabs since I can get a discount on those. I just don't think I have the money to buy something more expensive right now- especially since I'll be treating three tanks at once. Yet I don't want to go out and buy PC tabs only to have them not work or be harmful! Can anyone clarify this please? It would be much appreciated :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Its your decision.

Prazi alone will be safer on bbs and fish.

PC tabs you may get a cycle bump (acraflavine kills them) and it can be a little harsher on fish too. However if you stick to the medication directions exactly the fish should be okay. I have used it just fine before.

Remember to increase surface agitation and do gravel vac daily with flukes.

Since speed is a priority here I would go with the PC tabs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Alright, I don't want to but I have to confess something. I just realized I have been making the stupidest most horrible mistake ever. There has been carbon in the filters THIS WHOLE TIME!!! Needless to say, I'm really upset with myself. I know the carbon has to be removed, but apparently just wasn't thinking...? Ugh! Maybe that's why they haven't made any progress so far! I just really hope my stupid mistake doesn't cost their lives. :(

Anyways. I got the PC tabs and added those and also salt (NaCl) to all my tanks. I am going to get rid of these nasty flukes. How many times should I re-dose the PC tabs? On the box it says treatment can be repeated once with 48 hours in between and at least a 25% water change. Will this be enough treatments to kill all the flukes though?

And all my tank equipment (siphon, buckets, etc.) does it need to be sterilized? If it does, can I just use bleach? Also when should I sterilize the stuff; before treatment, during, or after it's over? I need help! haha :please

Tellie's gills look kind of swollen, and she's not bottom sitting anymore, but hanging right at the surface and drifting a little. They're all still very unhappy, but maybe have perked up a little since I added the new meds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Sakura, one of the most important things with flukes is gravel vacuuming. It is right in the gravel that the larvae are hatching out. It is a proven fact that flukes thrive in gravelled tanks. You really need to be gravel vacuuming and sucking up between and under that gravel twice daily to be honest.

The PC tabs will immediately begin to work on freeliving and some body attached flukes. They will not touch any larval forms that are protected by a cyst. The water changes are useless without the vacs. The water changes should be larger....you need to be throwing out the water containing freeliving flukes. Its a great way to rid the tank of them!

There is no point bleaching all now, I think it may be too late. I should treat your other tank for flukes as well.

Im sorry about the carbon thing, many of us have done that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, I just did gravel vac and change 100% of the water right before adding the PC tabs, and I will plan on really trying to keep on top of it. I've also lowered the water level to create more splash and raise oxygen levels like you suggested.

All tanks are being treated. Thanks for checking in Imogen :) So now I know vacuuming and water changes will be important, but what about how many times I should dose the PC tabs? The box says only up to two times, but is it safe to do more do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I'm so sorry you lost two of your babies :cry1

How is the last fish doing? Has the PC tabs seemed to help at all.. I'm not exactly sure about the number of doses for the PC tabs. With a heavy fluke load multiple treatments are neccessary though. Is it possible to switch to the prazi after the 2 doses of the PC tabs? I am pretty sure if u don't have the prazi by then u can do more than the 2 treatments if needed, but again, thats just an assumption not a fact.

I apologize for being gone from your thread so long. I realize Trinket has been here and she's the very best, but I hate when I get involved in helping and then disappear. It was a bad week for me. I am really sorry for that, and for the loss of your fish...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

All three from that tank ended up dying. I don't know if it was salt intolerance, parasites, or harsh meds that did them in. They were in extreme distress, and I'm getting conflicting information it seems. I've heard that you can tell a fish is intolerant to salt when their mouth seems to lock open. Well all my fish were doing that before they died, but I thought it was because of the parasites, which also cause that to happen? Not sure, but at any rate, they're gone now :(

I still have four in my 55 gallon tank that I'm continuing to treat on a 3 days on, 2 days off schedule with the PC tabs. If I can, I'm going to get prazipro instead, but that depends on store availability. Let's hope these ones make it! They seem better off than the others that died, so I think they have a chance. Thanks for the concern CountyLovah, and don't worry about being away. It happens. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh no!!

After I saw u write that all 3 had died I figured I must have missed another thread somewhere, so I just read that too.

I am SO sorry u lost them all. That's soo sad. And I know how frustrating it is when things seem to be contradictory!!!

BUT, like u said, I hope that the 4 in the 55 will do well :-) 4 in a 55 is actually a really great # of fish as well.. :-)

If u can't find the prazi in any stores u can find it online at a few places. Dr. Foster And Smith has some I am pretty sure. Or u can get Aqua Prazi at Goldfish Connection. it keeps a long time and is really good to have on hand! :-)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12098

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks. It was pretty upsetting, just watching them struggle and not knowing how to help! If there was something I could have done to stop their suffering I of course would have. :( But, there's nothing I can do about it now, so I'm just trying to look ahead instead of behind. I'm sure that through this I've at least gained some experience that will allow me to better help my goldfish from now on. :)

Oh and yeah, I'm planning on keeping only four fish in that tank. It will be less work and they will be happier that way! :exactly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...