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My Comet Goldfish Has Worms And Possible Dropsy?

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Guest joecarnut

Hi,

I'm sorry i can't give you all the required info as my goldfishs tank is far from me at the moment.

But it's a 36 gal tank. Ammonia = 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 10 Temp Goldfish is peakaboo who is 11 years old and about 11 inches long.

She has some kind of round worms which she may have has for a year where one would turn up every other month or so. But all of a sudden she started swelling up and we would see her expel some worms from her rectum.

We decided to try Jungle anti-parasite for the required 4 wks of treatment. we felt she didnt get smaller so we ordered some flakes from angelfish that had fenbendazole which from my reading is what she needed. That was a 10 day treatment and after the treatment she seemed to expel some worms and shrink back down 40% or more.

So we waited a week or so and was going to give more of one of the meds because we weren't sure which one actually worked. During that time she started getting bigger again and even more so than before.Like a golf ball is near her rectum. She started having problems staying upright and has been upside down on the bottom for awhile. Now she seems to stay more on her side. So we tried giving her some of the jungle med food again but she acted like she wanted to eat it but wouldnt or couldn't.

So I noticed in her mouth it seems to be swollen inside of it and I think that is why she can't eat anything.

We were told to watch for infection, but we made the mistake of trying to give her foods for the worms instead because we felt time was running out.

Now she lays on her side and when she hears voices or sees someone walk in she will move as if wanting to eat but she can't move too much like she is partially paralyzed.

I did research and felt that the maracyn/maracyn II freshwater med might help her infection as its supposed to help her internally too. This will be day 4 of the maracyn combo abd she hasn;t changed much. Shold I try a different med? tetracycline? Primafix as its supposed to be milder and treat internally?

Can someone give her a shot?

She is getting weaker.

I really need advice and guidance as this is not just any fish but our pet and friend.

(If you look up "joe-aquarium" on the fish geeks forum there is the history there in the disease area)

Problem is I can't get onto that site to see answers as their server seems to be way to slow and I never get on. My browser times out.

Then I remmebered this website was good and decided to try to get help and re-aquainted with purely goldfish petkeepers.

Thanks and I will try to get more info on our fish as i will be at her aquarium Monday at my folks house,

Ken

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Welcome to Koko's, Ken!

It must be very frustrating for you to sort out your precious baby's issues.:(

Okay, the first thing I noticed is you used flakes with fenbendazole and instead of going better, the fish seemingly swelled. Could you please tell us what variety Peekaboo is? If he is a fancy type, I would absolutely not feed him flakes. Flakes are icky to fancies as they can inject air as the fish ingests them. Once the flakes swell especially when gulped from the surface by the fish, the air increases and if trapped in the gastrointestinal tract, your fish certainly would float very badly as a result. This is one reason I advise totally against flakes whether medicated or not. A lot of goldfish just don't take very well to flakes or any floating foods with a seldom incidence with singletail varieties.

Could you take some shots of the mouth or ask your family member to get you the shots? I wonder which area of the mouth appears swollen that it is preventing her from eating well. How does his poop look at the moment? If we may be dealing with internal parasites, I'd rather be feeding it metronidazole laced foods if it can manage it. MediGold is a good choice for possible internal bacterial infection but internal infections are seemingly always difficult to figure out as this is internal so we would not know what would be happening inside except from the appearance of poop and appetite which are good indicators sometimes. I would not treat the fish with anything until we have the information about the poop and some good shots of the mouth infection. I just don't feel comfortable to be honest in suggesting treatments until I am sure of what is happening exactly.

If you have any further queries, please feel free to ask. It's always good to come up with some new possibilities so we may be able to help as much as we can.:)

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Hi Ken and welcome. Are you sure these are nematodes/roundworms?

The Jungle meds only work on nematodes. If the worms are cestodes or trematodes you need prazi, in the water and orally.

What was the name of the flake worm food you fed?

How does her body look? Is it tattered and with any redspots or holes or frayed fins etc? Or just the lump?

Has the fish ever been in a pond and do you keep snails that could have brought in thorny head or white grub worms.

Can you see any freeliving worms or are the ones you saw always attached to the fish?

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Guest joecarnut

Hi everyone and thanks for answering so quickly.

She doesn't have any red spots or frayed fins or any other external signs of infection except that she is very swollen in the spinchter area, no pine coning, amd that the whole inside of her mouith looks swollen.

I dont think she can swallow any food.

We normally feend her the food from goldfish connection, but flakes she usually tolerated well. She is a Comet Goldfish BTW.

We started medicating her with the jungle anti-parasite food but wasn't sure if it helped or not. So I read where the worms she possibly has could be treated with fenbendazole on some institutional website. But the only way I could find any was dog dewormer and i would have to soak the exact right amount in with some fish food.

So I found the flakefood http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsParasite.htm, its the de-worming flake.

It appears as if the the whole inside of her mouth is swollen and you can't see down her throat at all. I wish I would have gave her something for infection before trying the med food again as i believe she can't swallow anything. So thats why I'm trying the maracyn combo. Hopefully i might be able to get a picture with my cell phone tommorow.

She is swollen like this fish but no pine coning yet. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/bloatygldfshfaqs.htm

and the inside of her moth and I imagine her mouth are swollen up, but not red. Just white like normal.

Also I have treated her with prazi-pro for the last year or so on a regular basis because of fluke problems of which we have that handled nowadays.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Ken

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There are basically three classes of worms as far as I know that are dangerous to fish.

Cestodes- Trematodes- and Nematodes. (Plus detritus and annelids- not relevant here)

The prazi you used should have taken care of cestode larvae and the flubendazole (in the wormflakes you linked us to) will only treat internal flukes even tho it claims to rid internal tapeworm too.

Both are treatments for cestodes and trematodes not nematodes. There are over 600 species of nematodes that can infect fish and the fact you have seen worms round her anus proves she has nematodes because this is where they come out to hatch out their larvae.

You really do need to treat for nematodes. Your fish has the classic two symptoms of cappilari- the worms at the vent PLUS the swollen bulge near the vent. I would treat again with JUNGLE ANTI PARASITE dewormer for the recommended course which is 4 days on AND 4 days off AND a repeat of this to catch the hatch out cycle. I think thats right, check the packet.. the duration is CRUCIAL..it MUST be fresh too. It contains metronidazole to reduce swelling and treat any anearobe secondary infection.

I personally STRONGLY suggest you do not use Maracyn it is a very highly toxic antibiotic and very inappropriate here. It will make her MUCH weaker!!

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Guest joecarnut

Hi everyone and thanks for answering so quickly.

She doesn't have any red spots or frayed fins or any other external signs of infection except that she is very swollen in the spinchter area, no pine coning, amd that the whole inside of her mouith looks swollen.

I dont think she can swallow any food.

We normally feend her the food from goldfish connection, but flakes she usually tolerated well. She is a Comet Goldfish BTW.

We started medicating her with the jungle anti-parasite food but wasn't sure if it helped or not. So I read where the worms she possibly has could be treated with fenbendazole on some institutional website. But the only way I could find any was dog dewormer and i would have to soak the exact right amount in with some fish food.

So I found the flakefood http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsParasite.htm, its the de-worming flake.

It appears as if the the whole inside of her mouth is swollen and you can't see down her throat at all. I wish I would have gave her something for infection before trying the med food again as i believe she can't swallow anything. So thats why I'm trying the maracyn combo. Hopefully i might be able to get a picture with my cell phone tommorow.

She is swollen like this fish but no pine coning yet. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/bloatygldfshfaqs.htm

and the inside of her moth and I imagine her mouth are swollen up, but not red. Just white like normal.

Also I have treated her with prazi-pro for the last year or so on a regular basis because of fluke problems of which we have that handled nowadays.

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Ken

I forgot to add, the worms only came out of her rectum. None are hooked to her outside or anything like that. They seem to be shaped like a thin wiggly spaghetti noodle. Usually white but sometime a little reddish brown. I don't think they are alive. Alot of came out after we had done both med foods i mentioned and her swelling went down.

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Yes they can be red tinged as they feed on blood and....um. Anyway you do need to do another course of the Jungle. Get a brand new packet. For a heavy infestation like this you need to repeat. Try the Jungle again and dose EXACTLY as said on pack. There is an important gap to catch the babies as they hatch. If you miss the timing then the worms come back. Is she still eating :unsure:

Yes, these kind of worms prefer the inside of the fish, they wont attach to the outside.

Do they look like these? 180px-Hookworms.jpg

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Guest joecarnut

On the picture you have, they sometimes look like that, but not really as see through. But that could be them. Then sometimes they look like a thin white string but dont think its fish diarrhea.

She is not eating. She is swollen in her mouth and throat or else I believe she would eat.She cant get around to well either due to swelling or worms. Like she's partially paralyzed.

I would give her the meds you suggested but she can't swallow anything. I need to get the swelling down. it's not an appetite thing but a swoolen inside of her mouth and throat thing.

Would primafix or some other anti-bacterial you know of help her bring the swelling down so she could eat? Something that would work externally and internally i think?

The maracyn combo is on its 4th out of 5 day dose already. So I have to finish.

Also the jungle anti-parasite food we were told on the package to give it to her three days in a row,wait 4 days, then do that sequence again for three more weeks for a total of 4 series of threeday feedings with four days in between.

Also the de-worming flakes we used had fenbendazole with garlic in them. Is that the same as the flubendazole you mentioned?

I need to get her able to eat.

Despertately,

Ken

Edited by joecarnut

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Im just so sorry she is unable to eat. This really complicates things. What happens is the worms encyst in the muscle tissue and form nodules. Thats what I think this is.

Day 4 of Maracyn? - then yes you should finish.

Unfortunately sounds to me -considering what you have tried- like you have a very virulent and resistant form of camallanus worms here. I think the only thing to do is try get Panacur (vet only) or straight fenbendazole -sorry not flu- (available OTC) into the water...sooner better. You have to clear the worms out from her and kill their life cycle. That is the priority here.

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Ken, I am so sorry about the complications this issue has caused. Trinket gave you the best advice possible. Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? I understand its availability may make things even more complicated as it is an old fashioned but nevertheless effective treatment. But if this may make things easier if available, I don't think it would hurt to try. Any thoughts on this?

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Guest joecarnut

Ken, I am so sorry about the complications this issue has caused. Trinket gave you the best advice possible. Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? I understand its availability may make things even more complicated as it is an old fashioned but nevertheless effective treatment. But if this may make things easier if available, I don't think it would hurt to try. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks Lupin and Trinket for all help.

Right now she just stays on her side unless someone comes into the room or she hears people talking she will stir and swim in a circle around her fake plant and rest where she started. She can't swim normally. Very limited.

She doesnt really open her mouth much anymore. She acts like she has some energy but she is getting weaker. She hasn't really ate in probablt a week or more.

I sure wish I would have come here earlier.

Ken

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On the picture you have, they sometimes look like that, but not really as see through. But that could be them. Then sometimes they look like a thin white string but dont think its fish diarrhea.

Also the de-worming flakes we used had fenbendazole with garlic in them. Is that the same as the flubendazole you mentioned?

Yes in that pic, those are hookworms just one of the many kinds of nematodes. These are not the exact same kind which your fish has but they are the same family of non segmented worm.

Yes it is the same family of anthelmintics-what you fed. The dose may have been too mild and/or the worms are resistant. There are a variety of these meds, most are oral. I think the safest bath one is the fenben one- flubendazol is non soluble. The real problem here is that the fish has ENCYSTED nematodes and once they become encysted (formed nodular clumps of larvae inside the fish in lumps) they are almost impossible to treat, that's the honest truth.

Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? Any thoughts on this?

Lupin, I think there are three options here: Fenbandazole,levamisole/tramisol or piperazine.

With encysted nematodes you need to try them all. Hopefully hit the one treatment that the particular worm is susceptible to. This is really hard -once encysted but even getting the load lowered would help the fish regain appetite and then we have two shots -oral and waterborn.

I have known pond infestations that have taken years and years to clear nematodes from the fish. Your best hope joecarnut is to try whichever of the three water meds above you can. The mouth is swollen from encysted nematodes and melafix is like showing a rainbow to a blindman I'm afraid but it wont harm him at all.

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Guest joecarnut

On the picture you have, they sometimes look like that, but not really as see through. But that could be them. Then sometimes they look like a thin white string but dont think its fish diarrhea.

Also the de-worming flakes we used had fenbendazole with garlic in them. Is that the same as the flubendazole you mentioned?

Yes in that pic, those are hookworms just one of the many kinds of nematodes. These are not the exact same kind which your fish has but they are the same family of non segmented worm.

Yes it is the same family of anthelmintics-what you fed. The dose may have been too mild and/or the worms are resistant. There are a variety of these meds, most are oral. I think the safest bath one is the fenben one- flubendazol is non soluble. The real problem here is that the fish has ENCYSTED nematodes and once they become encysted (formed nodular clumps of larvae inside the fish in lumps) they are almost impossible to treat, that's the honest truth.

Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? Any thoughts on this?

Lupin, I think there are three options here: Fenbandazole,levamisole/tramisol or piperazine.

With encysted nematodes you need to try them all. Hopefully hit the one treatment that the particular worm is susceptible to. This is really hard -once encysted but even getting the load lowered would help the fish regain appetite and then we have two shots -oral and waterborn.

I have known pond infestations that have taken years and years to clear nematodes from the fish. Your best hope joecarnut is to try whichever of the three water meds above you can. The mouth is swollen from encysted nematodes and melafix is like showing a rainbow to a blindman I'm afraid but it wont harm him at all.

I will try to put the pix up but i need to put them on a website somehow.

Also there is only one fish in the tank in case i didn't mention it.

There are versions of the meds you listed that I can put in the water? Sorry if you meant foods as I am dense sometimes.

But I want to get started and thanks for telling the truth to me whether its good news or bad.

ken

Edited by joecarnut

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Guest joecarnut

On the picture you have, they sometimes look like that, but not really as see through. But that could be them. Then sometimes they look like a thin white string but dont think its fish diarrhea.

Also the de-worming flakes we used had fenbendazole with garlic in them. Is that the same as the flubendazole you mentioned?

Yes in that pic, those are hookworms just one of the many kinds of nematodes. These are not the exact same kind which your fish has but they are the same family of non segmented worm.

Yes it is the same family of anthelmintics-what you fed. The dose may have been too mild and/or the worms are resistant. There are a variety of these meds, most are oral. I think the safest bath one is the fenben one- flubendazol is non soluble. The real problem here is that the fish has ENCYSTED nematodes and once they become encysted (formed nodular clumps of larvae inside the fish in lumps) they are almost impossible to treat, that's the honest truth.

Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? Any thoughts on this?

Lupin, I think there are three options here: Fenbandazole,levamisole/tramisol or piperazine.

With encysted nematodes you need to try them all. Hopefully hit the one treatment that the particular worm is susceptible to. This is really hard -once encysted but even getting the load lowered would help the fish regain appetite and then we have two shots -oral and waterborn.

I have known pond infestations that have taken years and years to clear nematodes from the fish. Your best hope joecarnut is to try whichever of the three water meds above you can. The mouth is swollen from encysted nematodes and melafix is like showing a rainbow to a blindman I'm afraid but it wont harm him at all.

I will try to put the pix up but i need to put them on a website somehow.

Also there is only one fish in the tank in case i didn't mention it.

There are versions of the meds you listed that I can put in the water? Sorry if you meant foods as I am dense sometimes.

But I want to get started and thanks for telling the truth to me whether its good news or bad.

ken

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad235/joecarnut/Fishesmouth2.jpg

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Guest joecarnut

On the picture you have, they sometimes look like that, but not really as see through. But that could be them. Then sometimes they look like a thin white string but dont think its fish diarrhea.

Also the de-worming flakes we used had fenbendazole with garlic in them. Is that the same as the flubendazole you mentioned?

Yes in that pic, those are hookworms just one of the many kinds of nematodes. These are not the exact same kind which your fish has but they are the same family of non segmented worm.

Yes it is the same family of anthelmintics-what you fed. The dose may have been too mild and/or the worms are resistant. There are a variety of these meds, most are oral. I think the safest bath one is the fenben one- flubendazol is non soluble. The real problem here is that the fish has ENCYSTED nematodes and once they become encysted (formed nodular clumps of larvae inside the fish in lumps) they are almost impossible to treat, that's the honest truth.

Camallanus are very frustrating to deal with.

Trinket, do you think levamisole hydrochloride is also an option here? Any thoughts on this?

Lupin, I think there are three options here: Fenbandazole,levamisole/tramisol or piperazine.

With encysted nematodes you need to try them all. Hopefully hit the one treatment that the particular worm is susceptible to. This is really hard -once encysted but even getting the load lowered would help the fish regain appetite and then we have two shots -oral and waterborn.

I have known pond infestations that have taken years and years to clear nematodes from the fish. Your best hope joecarnut is to try whichever of the three water meds above you can. The mouth is swollen from encysted nematodes and melafix is like showing a rainbow to a blindman I'm afraid but it wont harm him at all.

I will try to put the pix up but i need to put them on a website somehow.

Also there is only one fish in the tank in case i didn't mention it.

There are versions of the meds you listed that I can put in the water? Sorry if you meant foods as I am dense sometimes.

But I want to get started and thanks for telling the truth to me whether its good news or bad.

ken

http://i939.photobuc...ishesmouth2.jpg

Fishesbelly.jpg

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Guest joecarnut

Fishesmouth7.jpg

1207090914a.jpg

She lies like this and swim in this position too.

Howsheliesonbottom.jpg

and her rectum. She hasn't pooped and nothing has really come out at all.

Fishesspinchter.jpg

Edited by joecarnut

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So sad. I can feel your sadness and frustration seeing those pics :(

With no bodymarks and that huge (gonad area) swollen I would have suspected egg impaction but with the worms you saw actually at the vent I think this must be cappillari- the ones that favor that area to encyst.

Do you have any epsom salt in the house? Its something you can get onto right away to help. A LARGE water change and gravel vac done very gently matching temp and pH first.

Then, add half a teaspoon roughly- per 10 gallons. Acts as a laxative/diuretic.

Then I would try either Parasite Clear tabs as well, which do contain a small amount of levamisole or this product which contains piperazine and Im hoping is liquid to use in the water as a bath but it doesnt say.My link

Which could you get hold of quicker? Speed is priority.

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Guest joecarnut

I could only find the parasite clear tabs. I will look around more for the other one. There is a fish store that has tons of stuff near us, but I avoid it because a lot of the stuff there is expired by years sometimes.

I will try online too, perhaps thru the link you sent me.

We tried the epsom salt once last week or so but only for 2 days.

I would like to try it again, because I know sometimes it may take another try for it to work and would definitely like to get her less full. I think I almost saw pine-coning today when i visited her during my work day.I think her rectum is like swollen shut from this as you can see in the picture.

Can I use either one of these meds you mentioned with epsom salt?

Thanks,

Ken

Edited by joecarnut

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Yes. Epsom can be used with any meds- unlike regular salt.

I hope you can get one of the meds soon- and add that with the epsom :)

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Guest joecarnut

Thanks for replyiing.

When we dosed her with epsom last time we read to do it at 1-2 tablespoons per 10 gallons.

So was that was too much?

I just want to be sure the dose is right.

We will start with parasite clear also tonight as well as the epsom after a water chnge.

I will try more places for the other meds you mentioned.

Ken

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Guest joecarnut

I found the other med. Which should I use 1st? internal parasite guard or parasite clear tabs?

Please,

Ken

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I found the other med. Which should I use 1st? internal parasite guard or parasite clear tabs?

Please,

Ken

A tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. How is your fish faring so far? By her dosage, yes, it is too much. i would have gone to half a teaspoon to a teaspoon only.

I'd go with Parasite Clear tabs for now. I'm sorry the responses are a bit delayed. I did not want to jump in when Trinket was the one holding down the fort but she must be busy these days so I decided to do it in case you needed help quick.unsure.gif

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Guest joecarnut

Thanks Lupin but I just added the internal parasite guard a few minutes ago. We will add the epsom salt too. then we will do a 25% water change on friday and add a second dose and then do the same thing again on Sunday.

Would you know if the internal parasite guard or the parasite clear light sensitive?

Thanks for the help,

Ken

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I do know a few meds such as levamisole are light-sensitive so keep lights off or subdued. You're not supposed to use glaring lights which will aggravate your fish's health condition from constant stress anyway so I'd just keep lights off.:)

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There are many different dosage recommendations from 0ne quarter to 2 or more per 10. Maximum would be about what you used last time I think. You dont need much but overdosing will not hurt either.

Sorry. Ive been tied up with end of year test grading and other work stuff.

How is all?

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