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Strange Behavior/ Blood Splotches


brandon

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I just noticed these weird splotches of red on my fantails body. it looks as though the fish has dried blood or has bruised itself. when I went to feed my fish today the fantail just sat at the bottom of the tank, while the common started swimming it's usual "it's food time" dance. this is weird because, the fantail is usually the first to notice that I am getting ready to feed them. I've noticed that sometimes when they're swimming they start swimming like they're getting electrocuted or have a really bad itch. I've looked at both the fish really closely and it's not ich, there's just that "dried blood" towards their tail (it's not on their fins or anywhere near their gills). I've noticed a little speck of it on the common, but it's mostly on the fantail. any idea of what this could be? also the tank isn't cycled yet, but I have near perfect water conditions.

[*]Ammonia Level?

0ppm

[*]Nitrite Level?

0ppm

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

aquarium pharmaceuticals inc, drops

[*]Water temperature?

below 75 above 70, I can't get the water any cooler

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

60 gallons, I've had it running since july 14th

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

rena smartfilter 55

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

50% every week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

2 both are around 4 inches, maybe a bit more

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

api water conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

flake food twice a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

the fantial was added pretty recently

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

I suppose you could call them bloody streaks, looks more like splotches of red.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

the fantial is staying towards the bottom, they also do this weird twitching, and sometimes they'll rub up against the tank

Edited by brandon
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If you don't have tests for nitrates, could you perhaps pick some up? Or at least have the water tested at your local fish store?

It's great that you've got such a big setup for your fish. I'm sure they're just loving the ample swimming space!

Just a few things come to mind..

1. your filter is not adequate for your tank size. :) The rena smartfilter 55 runs 250gph in prime condition. For a 60 gallon tank, you'll want at least a combined 600gph water turn over rate. So you need another 350 more. You could look into aquaclears or penguin filters on bigals.com for some affordable filters.

2. What types of decorations/substrate etc. do you keep in the tank?

3. Aside from the new fish, any new objects?

4. Can you get a picture of the red splotches?

5. What brand flake food, and what's the expiration date?

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Is your fishes fins clamped ? Loss of appetite, bottom sitting and red streaking on the fins or body are all symptoms of ammonia poisoning. You say that your tank isn't cycled, are you testing the water daily ? Ammonia at 1 ppm can stress your fish and start to do damage. Was your fantail quarantined ? You also mention that your fish are flashing and scratching which could well be a bacterial problem. Did you medicate your new fish at all ?

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I've noticed that sometimes when they're swimming they start swimming like they're getting electrocuted or have a really bad itch. I've looked at both the fish really closely and it's not ich, there's just that "dried blood" towards their tail (it's not on their fins or anywhere near their gills)

If your water really is OK this sounds like parasites.

But, it's important to check that your water really is safe. Can you run tests again for us? Please try to get hold of nitrate and PH, too.

When still cycling it is advisable to test your water every morning and then make w/changes according to the readings. Making a rigid 50% a week won't allow you to respond to any rising toxicity. Let the readings be the guide.

Pics would be a great help.

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Oh I must have misread the "isn't" cycled as "is cycled".

Can you also let us know how much water conditioner you use and any other additives? Are you using anything like zeolite?

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If you don't have tests for nitrates, could you perhaps pick some up? Or at least have the water tested at your local fish store?

It's great that you've got such a big setup for your fish. I'm sure they're just loving the ample swimming space!

Just a few things come to mind..

1. your filter is not adequate for your tank size. :) The rena smartfilter 55 runs 250gph in prime condition. For a 60 gallon tank, you'll want at least a combined 600gph water turn over rate. So you need another 350 more. You could look into aquaclears or penguin filters on bigals.com for some affordable filters.

2. What types of decorations/substrate etc. do you keep in the tank?

3. Aside from the new fish, any new objects?

4. Can you get a picture of the red splotches?

5. What brand flake food, and what's the expiration date?

1. I ordered my fluval fx5 a couple of weeks ago, so when that gets here I'll have more than enough filtration.

2. I don't have any decorations, and I have a sandy substrate. but during this next change I am going to go bare bottom. I think the sand may be too course.

3. I added a rock from outside, but I cleaned it very throughly! I washed it about three times before it touched the tank, and I even did the vinegar trick to make sure the rock wouldn't leech anything bad.

4. I'll post them tomorrow.

5. hbh goldfish flake frenzy 10/11. I also feed them hikari algae waffers as a treat once in a while, but I can't determine the expiration date on it....it says something like B 02 2011.09. I have no clue what to make of it.

Is your fishes fins clamped ? Loss of appetite, bottom sitting and red streaking on the fins or body are all symptoms of ammonia poisoning. You say that your tank isn't cycled, are you testing the water daily ? Ammonia at 1 ppm can stress your fish and start to do damage. Was your fantail quarantined ? You also mention that your fish are flashing and scratching which could well be a bacterial problem. Did you medicate your new fish at all ?

the fancy's top fin is always clamped. the common seems fine, but it'll flash every now and then. the ammonia test always comes out to 0ppm, even after two weeks of testing every day it was still at 0ppm. honestly I don't really trust the kit, after such a time you'd think something would show. I've read the booklet several times and I am pretty confident that I am doing it right. no, the fantail was a surprise for my birthday. I only wanted to keep a single common. no, I didn't. there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the fancy. I wish I would've had a quarrentine tank, but I only planned on keeping a single fish.

I've noticed that sometimes when they're swimming they start swimming like they're getting electrocuted or have a really bad itch. I've looked at both the fish really closely and it's not ich, there's just that "dried blood" towards their tail (it's not on their fins or anywhere near their gills)

If your water really is OK this sounds like parasites.

But, it's important to check that your water really is safe. Can you run tests again for us? Please try to get hold of nitrate and PH, too.

When still cycling it is advisable to test your water every morning and then make w/changes according to the readings. Making a rigid 50% a week won't allow you to respond to any rising toxicity. Let the readings be the guide.

Pics would be a great help.

yeah, I'll run the tests again. I'll check my lfs and see if they have those tests, but I am pretty sure they don't. my tank isn't cycled so I don't think there will be any nitrates. maybe I'll buy new ammonia and nitrite test drops.

Oh I must have misread the "isn't" cycled as "is cycled".

Can you also let us know how much water conditioner you use and any other additives? Are you using anything like zeolite?

I use 2 drops per gallon, I am not sure if I have any chloramines in my tap water so I thought I was better safe then sorry. I just use the api water conditioner.

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also the fancy and the common fish have no loss in appetite. when the fancy isn't eating it's sitting at the bottom. but before the sitting at the bottom the fancy would hide behind the heater (which isn't plugged in, due to the hot weather), or it would just stick to one corner of the tank.

Edited by brandon
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Hmmm - missed this first time around!

the fantial was added pretty recently Whenever you see probs after the addition of a new fish you can bet they brought in parasites.

Yup, you need to treat. I'd run Parasite Clear Tabs in case of Tricho and then follow up with a proper course of Prazi in case of flukes (flukes require multiple treaments as their survival skills are amazing). Sounds more like flukes tome though.

Do a very large water change before adding meds. Get decent dropper testers and have the lfs test for you in the meantime (get actual numbers not just 'fine' or 'safe')

Okey dokey?

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well now the fancy has stopped eating entirely, so it may very well be one of the two. my lfs will not test my water for me, I've asked them before and both of them said no. I'll see if I could can find any alternative meds for the two, because my lfs will most likely not have any of those medicines.

Edited by brandon
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Just my two cents...but blood like splotches on fins and body can mean hemorrhagic septicemia. I lost one of my fish to this illness, so be on your guard. Good water quality is a must. If you haven't already, the first thing I would do for treatment are some heavy water changes.

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Just my two cents...but blood like splotches on fins and body can mean hemorrhagic septicemia. I lost one of my fish to this illness, so be on your guard. Good water quality is a must. If you haven't already, the first thing I would do for treatment are some heavy water changes.

good idea, I'll get right on that. the blood splotches are located mainly on the body towards the rear of the fish, but it looks like it should get to the gills pretty soon. the pictures are pretty fuzzy, but you can make out the redness towards the rear of the fish.

Picture022.jpg

Picture023.jpg

Picture024.jpg

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Just my two cents...but blood like splotches on fins and body can mean hemorrhagic septicemia.

Yes, but with a cycling tank and a new fish one should be ruling out water and parasites before jumping to bac infections.

the ammonia test always comes out to 0ppm, even after two weeks of testing every day it was still at 0ppm. honestly I don't really trust the kit, after such a time you'd think something would show. I've read the booklet several times and I am pretty confident that I am doing it right.

Which kit is this? Ammonia should definitely be showing up after 2 weeks in an uncycled tank! When a new fish is added it will increase the ammonia load even more. If the kit is dodgey this all might all be down to ammonia. You definitely need to let us know about your testers.

I'll see if I could can find any alternative meds for the two, because my lfs will most likely not have any of those medicines.

Don't get alternative meds advised by an lfs - it's better to order what I've suggested online if they're not available in store. I'll send links if necessary, but get some decent testers before we go any further.

When was the last water change and how much did you take out? I would start by doing a 75% change-out and see if there is any improvement.

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well the fantail died today, and there was this white mucus stuff covering the part where the red part was? every monday I do a 50% water change, you wouldn't think that the ammonia would get too high in much a little time. I'll get some better testers though, what brand do you guys suggest?

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Oh no! I'm so sorry she died.

every monday I do a 50% water change, you wouldn't think that the ammonia would get too high in much a little time.

The thing is that once a week isn't enough during cycling - it's possible, if your testers are off, that the level was very high in which case a 50% w/c may not have been enough to reduce toxicity sufficiently. Try to get API or Tetra drops tests.

there was this white mucus stuff covering the part where the red part was

Both toxicity and parasites will cause redness and excess slimecoat - we really need your new test results before being certain.

Next order of business is to: Change some more water; try to get new testers; order some Prazi/Parasite Clear tabs online.

Keep us posted.

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alright I just got through doing an 70-80% water change, and tomorrow I'll go out and look for some better testers. thanks for all the advice :)

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