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Been Problem For A While


Miaowen

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water def not proplem...... checked evrything....................all said in previous posts

looks worse than ever,,,,,nose down, body upright,..........when disturbed swims around normaly. trouble swimming to bottom and staying there..................wish it was just swim bladder! going on holiday in 3 days, was going to add worm plus tomorrow and leave 7 days (then back from holiday)

If swimbladder (and I hope it is) how on earth do I control..............only ever use sinking food or home made gel food

cannot leave him for 10 days if he has got something physically wrong........................................he looks ok but seeing him struggling to get to bottom is really upsetting

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 0 (only cus done 100%water change)

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Tetratest

[*]Water temperature? 75%

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 25 UK gallons approx 3 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Tetratex External 700, Aquaflow 200 internal. hang on back type of thing, not a very good filter but adds more aireation

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? he has just been moved to this tank, previously was in 20 Uk gallon with a black Moor, water changes over past couple of months between 50% and a 100% a week

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? One oranda approx 4 to 5 inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? homemade gel food, Hinari sinking wafers, brocolli, peas and spinachwafers,

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? at present no, gonna add worm plus later today

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no, but seems to have a small bulge to left hand side of tail, always thought for a while that his tail twisted to one side

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Lethargy, sleeping a lot, floating to top, sometimes floating horizental, still eating ok

He is not floating about this morning so at lwast is on the bottom, still very lethargic, starved him yesterday and fed him half a pea this morning which he has ate

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Am sorry for starting second post here when I already had one in Disease and discussion but I just panicked. If someone could transfer this to my other post as it is not a life or death situation and I do not want to take up room here. Clive has now eaten another half of pea and though lethargic and seems to still have bouyancy problems at least he is not floating on top

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Miaowen, this is either the early signs of flipover or a severe bactrial infection. I will quote fancy Goldfish: The complete guise to care and collecting.

Head down, tail at surface

This is a symptom of a bacterial infection or it could be an early warning sign of flipover disease. Check your water and make sure you check your nitrates (which you have done). If the readings are normal, you should treat with injections as for a bacterial infection. You may lose the head down fish within a week to ten days if a bacterial infection is the cause. Other exposed fish will die later if you do not eliminate any parasites which probably precipitated the infection (should she use PP here?) and bacterial invasion of the fish.

In short, it is probably a bacterial infection of the belly. Im not very knowledgeable about the difference between internal and external, but I believe you can still treat with maracyn plus instead of injections. I may be wrong here.

But atleast you know what it could be.

Any reddening of the belly?

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Thanks for your reply Mustlov, but am really concerned now, I am in the UK so we do not have access to the medications that you have in other parts of the world

He is not face down in gravel with body upright at moment (although has been like that)

I am a novice when it comes to fish diseases but after salting to 0.03% for few days followed by wormplus and then Melafix for 7 days there was much improvement.................although, I personally think that improvement first occurred when I had him separated in container on his own, salted 0.03% and fasting him and then feeding peas..............................obviously the treatments contributed to him getting better, but then when I thought he was ok, he was upside down again, floating to to the top and unable to swim against the flow of water in the tank.

The only thing I can think of that could have happened is that he gulped down the amount of food for 2 fish straight away..............normally I used to separate Ruby (black moor) and Clive when they were feeding because of obvious reasons but I could not do this all the time so am convinced that Clive ate more than he should have done which caused his relapse.....................please tell me that you agree that this could have been the reason I go on holiday in 2 days and not sure what to do

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Hi Trinket thanks for replying, I have only been feeding home made gel food, veg and sinking wafers for a while

What I do not understand is that Ruby my black moor has always had swimbladder problems but I have always manage to control it by diet.............................this thing with Clive has seemed to come on over a couple of months but his symptoms have been much worse than I ever saw in Ruby

Clive was always the hardy, tough more energenic one

I have been been feeding him half a pea twice a day, and today started him on gel food, he is more lively and swimming around but Il can still see that he has to make an effort to stay on bottom of tank (he is now in tank on his own) (I also treated the tank with wormplus on Sun, gonna have to remove all that on Wed before I go on holiday)

Am getting frustrated now cus do not know what else I can do

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Watch the timing. Its important. If he gets floaty after eating and then slowly gets better right up to just before he is fed again then occasional fasting may be one way to control this.

Few check points:

Does the gelfood you make sink? Some do and some don't.

How much aeration in the tank? Floaty fish need more.

Could your fish be female and gravid withe eggs? This makes a fish hang at the top and swim like a drunken driver.

How have your nitrates been? If they have been getting high a weekly 100% change for a while can get things back on track.

What does his poop look like? When did you last see one?

Fancyfish have tangled intestines and feeding and related bouyancy issues is a recurring theme. What works for one may not for another and it can be very frustrating. As long as your cycle is solid and your water care good I wouldnt worry too much about going away for a few days and letting him fast. Do you have any green algae or plants? The spirulina you are feeding is good for some floaty fish.

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Thanks Trinket and Newbiefishgirl,

just wanted to let you know that Clive is much better............still has a slight problem with staying at the bottom of tank but seems to manage. I still think he has a bit of a bend in his tail but am going to keep taking pics until I get one where it is obvious. Maybe he is always going to have buoyancy problems now as I can't think of anything else I can do for him

I started giving him more veg for a couple of days and now he is on gelled food of dried shrimp, broccolli and organic tuna....he is going mad for it but am feeding him tiny amounts at a time. I have got 2 airstones, a spray bar from the external filter and a hang on back of tank type of filter, not that good as a filter really (media compartment too small) but good for extra aeration

I am not sure of sex have always he was a boy, so just assumed really.

Hope he will be ok while I am away, I will be straight back on here if he is'nt ha ha. Thanks for all your help

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Am back again and problem still not resolved, quick update...................Clive my Oranda has not been well for a while, just a change in behaviour at first, or not acting like he always had done but it eventually ended up with him having major bouyancy problems.

One morning I found him upside down leaning against one of the filters, someone on here told me that it could have been because he was so weak he could'nt even swim against the pull of the filter................................. I initially removed him from his shared tank and kept him in clean salted water in a 3 gallon container (nothing else avaible at the time), after advice from this site I bought wormplus and melafix.

Eventually transferred him into a 25 UK gallon tank (vacated by Stan my shabunkin who has gone into the most fantastic pond that I could imagine, kindly arranged by a friend of mine, he is only alive today because of the help I got on here about 3 years ago, hope you can do the same for Clive!)

I went on holiday 2nd July and Clive was ok, not perfect, but I thought ok to leave. I returned 11 days later and it was obvious he was not. I did 50% water changes for 4 days running although not even sure that water was the problem, did them just in case, nitrates continue to be undetectable!!!!!! obviously because of all water changes, never had such good water but it is still not doing Clive any good

Have started wormplus treatment again today, can only hope that this will do any good, at the moment he is resting nose down in gravel body just floating in water. There is definitely something wrong, but what I do not have a clue

I am still convinced that there is a physical deformity in that there is a bulge on his right side (which no one else except me can see) I am continually trying to get a photo that I can upload for you experts to see, but have taken loads of pics which do not show the problem, I have 5 pix camera which I thought would have been good enough, anyway will continue to try, hope someone can help

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Can you get water parameters? I am thinking you may have had a bump in your cycle. :(

Other than that...we need to start again with a crazy play by play. You were gone 11 days...no one checked on him? He may just well be hibernating for no food/stimulus. No one fed him or changed water?

If you still don't have a testing kit take you water to the LFS and get the exact readings and post back! Want to figure this out. You are doing a good job with your fish! See what you can do, ok!

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level?0

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?tetratest, drops

[*]Water temperature?78%

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?25 UK gallon

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?tetratec ex700, aqauflow 200, hang on back type filter dont know make

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% 5 times in last 11 days

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 approx 4"

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?prime

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? gel food, sinking wafers and assorted veg

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?no

[*]Any medications added to the tank?wormplus added yesterday

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?no

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? finding it hard to stay at bottom of tank. When water had'nt been changed for 11 days (due to holiday) he was much worse.

Water is better than I have ever kept it, I was hoping that it was high nitrates that was causing the problem. Thats why I now like to keep them 0.

I added the wormplus yesterday and am going to leave it for a week

There is nothing more that I can do. He looks quite normal when he is swimming but as soon as he stops he starts floating to the top and has a problem staying on the bottom, I have tried fasting him, then only peas for 3 days,, nothing seems to work. I have a day off today so am going to persevere and try and get a pic which shows the bulg on his back end

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Well you need to have a little nitrates in there to keep the cycle going. High nitrates will cause them to flip. Other than that your levels look good. It was probably because you were gone so long.

Get a pic and I will check back later. :)

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Hi Newbie

Thank you so much for replying to all my cries for help, I really appreciate the help I got from you and in the past from this site itself.

But I cannot go on any longer hoping that Clive will recover. He is in a 25UK gallon tank treated with Wormplus. I have only fed him on minute portions of homemade gel food (to include protein in diet, advised by someone on this site) and various veg. I have used Melafix after prevoius Wormplus treatment, kept water as pristine as I can and really thought he was getting better.

Before I went to work this morning I fed him with a Hikari sinking wafer for the first time thinking that he was ready to resume a more or less normal though modified diet and came home to find him upside down floating on surface of water, the worst I have ever seen him......................I really had to sit down and come round a bit, I have never ever seen him that bad before

I was quite ready to do anything possible to get him better, but I cannot tolerate seeing him like this. I have done a 50% water change to try and get this wormplus out of the water, cannot change any more water yet as I think it is really stressing Clive out, especially as I removed him out of the tank into a small container to try and get some good photos to post, and wish I had'nt as he got really agitated and it was obvious that he did'nt have that much energy to start with, it has really upset me and I cannot bear to see him like this..............I have phoned a friend to ask her if she will put him to sleep for me. She cannot make it until tomorrow but says she will do it for me tomorrow. She is sympathetic but cannot understand why I should be upset about a fish

He is now worse than I have ever seen him, he can swim when I go up to tank but at rest is floating on top of tank, sometimes with head down and tail floating on top of water, and sometimes he is upside down, it is awful to watch. I cannot put him through any more treatments, even water changes, he never used to mind me messing about with tank, used to eat out of my hand and was never bothered about what I did with water or ornaments inside tank but now seems nervous and agitated when I do anything with the tank

I am really upset about this and cannot believe that he has deteriated so much, but thank you all for your help

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Have you tried medicated food at all?

Sometimes fish just flip. It is difficult. I am soooo sorry you have decided to take this route...it is very difficult I know.

If you are set...you need to get clove oil. It will make him sleep and not wake up. :(

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