Oranda Is Upside Down On Bottom Of Tank

[chico 2]

Update - he won't eat. I hand feed him the anti-bac food...he sucks it in as if he's hungry, then a sec later he spits it out. I tried it multiple times....even soaking the pellet first. He doesn't want it.

[CountryLovah 56]

Normally once you start medicated food, thats all you want to give. However, it hasn't been that long. Just one day. Will he still eat peas for you? Or is he just not eating in general?

[chico 2]

I haven't tried the peas. In the morning I'll try the anti-bac food again. If he won't take it, I'll try the peas and post back.

[newbiefishgirl 1]

Personally if he is not eating I would get Marycyn2. I am more concerned with the infection than SBD right now. SBD is something we can deal with but the infection....are there any red streaks in his fins?

Personally I would suggest starting the Marycyn2 and peas. Sue?

Chico I am so sorry this is happening. Typically only moderators are allowed to suggest medications here. It is just that it happens people go on vacation. Hang in there.

[chico 2]

Sunday - May 24th Update

His sore spot has greatly improved. He is no longer floating solely at the top of tank; he's floating more mid-level.

He ate, again, around 5 of the anti-bac pellets this morning. After around the 4th or 5th one he starts spitting them out. So he's had probably a total of 10 of 'em in the past two days.

Regarding the red streaks in fins: nothing unusual or remarkable.

I totally understand folks need to go on vacation! Heck, I was pressuring my husband for us to get out of dodge this w/e, but here we sit. Good thing here we sit...

If I go with the Maracyn 2, should I start with fresh water? I have 1/4 teaspoon of epsom salt in there at the moment.

We're hanging in there - thanks to you for your support. I have faith....the children are a bit more concerned than I am at the moment. I have him qt'd in our 4th bedroom so just in case something bad were to happen, the children wouldn't immediately see it....

[newbiefishgirl 1]

Well if he is eating a few pellets...maybe that is enough. Can you try soaking them first and see if he will eat more? Or maybe try and feed him a couple times during the day.

If the sore looks better and you can get him to eat the meds hold off on the marycyn2. If he is floating mid-level vs. at the top...this is better.

Keep up with the epsom! Keep check your water parameters too! No ammonia;) I will try and check back periodically today.

[CountryLovah 56]

I agree. You are seeing improvement, so there is no reason to start a new medication just yet.. The fact that the sore is going down, and he is up and about means that we got the right medicine!! YAY!. So I wouldn't start Maracyn II...

As for feeding, keep doing what you are doing. Get the food is as many times as you can without bothering him and stressing him out. If 5 pellets is his limit, thats fine. Hopefully, soon he will be eating on his own, and maybe even eating more

[chico 2]

Thanks, ladies.

I was able to feed him 8 soaked pellets around 2pm central. That is great. Water params are holding. I will prob do a 50% change tomorrow since I'll be cleaning the other tank anyway. He's still floating mid-level. All is somewhat okay - somewhat.

I'll post back tonight on the progress. Thanks so much for following this with me....

[CountryLovah 56]

This is AWESOME news...Seriously!!! With fish, you have to look for any small improvement, or sometimes even "not worse".. The fact that his appetite seems to be increasing is really really good. Sometimes it's too late and the fish won't eat. It sounds like you got to this just in time, and thats SOO good! : )

I have to find something I wanted to show you.. Be back in a second.

YAYAYAYAY!

[CountryLovah 56]

I was pretty sure I remembered Trinket saying to avoid Maracyn 2 with floaty/upside down fish. I was right. I found some posts:

The only one thing with the Maracyn 2 is it can have a bad effect on the kidneys, it is quite harsh on kidneys and so personally I tend to avoid it when the fish is upside down....being upside down can often (but not always) indicate the fishes kidneys are not functioning well and not releasing fluids and gases etc. Otherwise it can be a good anti-inflammatory.

But the main one I think is the flipover factor. If the fish is dropsied alone then Maracyn 2 may work (if carried out on correct conditions) but if the fish has dropsied and flipped over it may mean the fish is in a more severe stage of renal failure and minocyline can be harsh on the kidneys. Renal failure (kidneys stopped working) means the fish cannot excrete poisons and when he is dropsied especially the kidneys need to be treated gently and encouraged to work.

HOWEVER Maracyn 2 should NOT be used in my opinion and from everything I have read and concluded in a fish with dropsy + internal bleeding. This combination is very hard on the kidneys and so is Minocyline. You need a good strong kidney to eliminate minocyline (it takes far longer for synthetic drugs to leave the system) so it should not be used in fish with swimming disorders, dropsy + internal bleeding (or mushy abdomen)...that's the confusion.

Soooo. I would NOT try Maracyn II

The good news is, with the fish already improving hopefully you will NOT need anything else.. And if something changes, and you DO, we can help you find a different product for the water (and maybe Trinket will even be back then).

Keep up the good work!!! Get better Johnny!!!!!

[chico 2]

woohoo! Fabulous. Thanks for adding that information.

[newbiefishgirl 1]

Hmmmmm.....good catch Sue! Maybe that is why Trinket had me use Triple Sulfa with my upside down kid!

Glad to see things are looking up! Be patient, hopefully we can get Johnny right side up!

[chico 2]

Night-time feeding: around 12-15 anti-bac pellets. Sorry I lost count...my 5 year old was exhibiting some "drama" herself and I had to briefly take care of her.

He's still floating upside down, mid-level, but he is also moving around a lot.

Will post again in the morning.

[CountryLovah 56]

This is good!!! Very good!!! Eating better and moving around more... excellent news!

I'm glad you tried the antibac food. It's always tricky when suggesting meds, which is why we do generally leave it up to the mods. However, I've learned alot from Trinket (one of the main mods that helps with disease) and I have a basic knowledge of a lot of the meds, and issues. Like Steph said, she is on vacation, and we knew she wouldn't be on, so when you said mushy belly, red sore, I just thought "we need to get meds in there fast" but at the same time I wondered if the fish would eat them. I am SOOO happy he is.

[jyoti411 1]

tremendous support you guys...great job Steph and Sue...awesome advice..

Chico you are doing soooo good with Johnny...I am keeping my fingers crossed for the gorgeous baby...I hope he gets better soon..

[newbiefishgirl 1]

Glad for both you and Johnny! Hang in there!

[chico 2]

Sunday morning, May 25 (Happy Memorial Day!!)

Red sore is completely gone. Poop is fantastic; no strings or air bubbles. Ate 10 anti-bac pellets this morning. Will do a water change and feed again at lunch.

[CountryLovah 56]

I'm SO happy for you! : )

[chico 2]

He wasn't interested in eating any pellets at lunch after the water change. I let him be. This evening he probably only ate two soaked pellets. He ended up spitting the rest out. Poops are great. Parameters are normal since did huge water change. The water temp is at about 68 F.

Still floating upside down mid-level; lots of movement as if he's trying to right himself - but is unsuccessful.

Let's hope he eats in the morning.

[CountryLovah 56]

Good call on letting him be if he is uninterested. It's great to try, but if at some point you can tell he is just not having it, then you are right to leave him alone rather than stress him further.

I hope he eats for you in the morning... He's trying to fight and thats a good sign!

[chico 2]

He ate a pretty healthy portion of pellets this morning. All is the same. Maybe he's a once a day eater ?? Who knows. We'll see what he does tonight.

Thanks again for all your support!!!!

[newbiefishgirl 1]

He is doing better, this is good. A couple of questions. How are the nitrates in the tank? Is his wen healing? What type of water changes are you doing in the QT? Just want to touch all of our bases!!

[CountryLovah 56]

Hey, as long as he's eating... It seems like you always get the most food in him at that morning feeding.

Thanks again for all your support!!!!

Welcome! It makes me really happy to see him doing so well! : )

[chico 2]

Water changes are every other day at about 75%. Nitrates are <5; ammonia and nitrites are 0. Wen is healing, although there are a couple dark spots on the wen which I attribute to the healing. He's still upside down, mid-level; mildly active. Eating healthy amts of the anti-bac pellet twice/day. Poops are normal and healthy. Tank still salted at 1/4 teaspoon / 10 g with epsom.

I guess I'll just keep up what I'm doing and maybe they'll be more improvement next week.

[CountryLovah 56]

I was just wondering how things were going with you.

Yep I would hang in there like you said. He's definately improved since you first posted and thats really good.

Does he flip over to eat yet, or are you still handfeeding him? Just curious.