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Guest mlisa73

Oranda Still Sitting

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Guest mlisa73

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 20

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.4

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? drops

[*]Water temperature? 72

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10g/9mos

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?Whisper

5-15

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? once/week; 50%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1-3 1/2" oranda

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?AquaSafe, EasyBalance, sometimes aqua. salt

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?shelled peas now; 1/2 - 1, twice/day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?no

[*]Any medications added to the tank?no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? only red veins in tailfin

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? yes, bottom-sitting for probably 4 weeks now, not eating unless hand-fed, not swimming much and only coming to the top every few minutes

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Guest mlisa73

I'm sorry, but I was having trouble entering more info into that post...

I tried to see if I posted this yet, don't think I have, but if so.. please excuse me.

I've looked all over trying to find out what else I can do. There's nothing wrong physically, except the veins in his tail. I have a site with videos and pictures (but can we post those?) I'm new here, and to fish-keeping, so if I say or do something stupid, please excuse me.

Starmon (there's the link) has been bottom-sitting for several weeks now (possibly longer), but I just noticed about 4 weeks ago, that he wasn't eating. After about 2 weeks of worrying about that, I started feeding him peas every so often (twice a day now, though). Sunday I quarantined him, did a 50% change, lowered the water level and managed to get the Nitrates down to 20 (it had always stayed at 40, no matter what). In this video, if you look close, you can see a string of poo.. one end normal (peas), the other white. He hasn't pooped in at least a week, so I was glad to see that this morning.

I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions?

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Im sure a mod will be by soon to help out. I hope everything is ok. :goodluck

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Can you test your parameters out of your tap and post.

Ideally you want your nitrates lower than 20.....aiming for below 10ppm.

Get the levels and post back. If your nitrates are lower from your tap I would start with a large 75% water change....dechlorinated, temp matched. Do that sooner than later ;)

Post back. A moderator will be here soon. He looks pretty sad! I'm sorry!

:welcome

do you have any bubble wands?

Hang in there Starmon and Melissa

Edited by newbiefishgirl

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Guest mlisa73

I tested it Saturday, and it usually doesn't change a whole lot except for occasional pH.

Nitrate - 5.0

Nitrite - 0

Ammonia - 0

pH - 7.6

HighRange pH - 7.4

Do you think it's ok leaving the water level down (it's about 65% full)?

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Why are you leaving it down? If it were me I would fill it up..leave like an inch or two for a splash if you don't have any bubble wands.

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Guest mlisa73

I do have an air stone. I have it down hoping he'd have more success getting to the top, and maybe less stressful.

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Let me see who is lurking. ;)

Have you ever added aquarium salt to your fish tank? Salting up to .3% to get rid of any nasties he might have gotten from the store?

there are a few links you should read through below my signature. Let me see if I can pm a mod. ok.

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Guest mlisa73

I added salt at the previous water change, April 5. I didn't write down how much, probably the recommended amount (2 tbsp I think?). Didn't this time (I can though).

Starmon, though, is about 9 or 10 months old. He couldn't have something from the store, still, could he?

And thank you for looking for more help. It seems this is a really popular site with lots of info!

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Also check the filter current, maybe is to strong...Sometimes fishes can sit because too much flow.

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Guest mlisa73

It has been stronger since I cleaned the gunk out of the tubing yesterday, but I don't think it's THAT bad. Besides, this pump's not adjustable like my bigger one.

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Click on the link to salting under my signature. To salt you need to have 1 teaspoon per gallon to reach .1%. After 12 hours you will want to increase to .2% adding another 1 teaspoon per gallon, and 12 hours later add the last 1 teaspoon per gallon to reach .3%. You may not need to go all the way to .3%, that is why I contacted a moderator.

If you do a water change you will have to replace the salt that you have taken out. You will also need to keep a chart.

Hang in there.

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Sorry you are having problems and welcome to kokos! Hope we can help.

You say you have had this fish for 9 months or so? Has he been a well fish all that time or has he had bouts of bottom sitting before?

Have you ever treated for flukes ? (A precaution prophylactic med most new fish should go through).

The old tank is 10 gallon? Or is that the QT size?

Can you tell us a little more about the tank he came from and if you notice any difference in behavior between him in the old tank and in the QT?

Coming up for air and sitting with red streaks can mean several things so we need a little more info. Bear with us!

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Mlisa, Trinket is here. Try and answer her questions to the best of your ability. Anything...big or small is important! So think, anything at all will help!

Good luck, I am still here. :)

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Guest mlisa73

Yes, we got all 3 actually last summer, either June or July, can't remember exactly. We started off with (I know, this is crazy, but I didn't know better) 4 shubs and 2 orandas (and they were tiny at the time) in one 10 gallon tank. Probably two weeks later, moved 2 shubs (lost the other 2) to another 10. Then, around the beginning of Feb., we got the 26 gallon tank for the shubs. Middle of March, lost one shub (high nitrates and nitrites). Decided Sunday to give it a try, and put the healthy oranda in with the shub so I could Dr. up on the sick one.

The only difference I've ever really noticed about Starmon (the sick one) versus GoldNumemon is mostly personality. GN has always been the social one, and Starmon the shy one. Both always went up when I'd first feed him, but once food sank, Starmon bottom-fed, GN ate at both. He did bottom sit and hide under a (fake) plant leaf for a while before I noticed anything weird (I remember my daughter and I laughing saying he was shy; or I thought he wanted the light off).

No, I've never treated for flukes (actually, can't recall what that is, but I'll look it up).

The 10-gallon that both Orandas were in is now QT home for Starmon, so GoldNumemon was the only fish physically removed. Starmon stayed behind. By the way, do goldfish get lonely? Cuz Cassie, my survivor shub who spent about a month alone, doesn't act all nervous anymore, now that GN's in there with her. I'm kinda worried Starmon might get lonely (although he's probably tired of me staring at him all the time.. :teehee ).

Today was the first time I've ever gotten the QT tank down to 20 Nitrates. The others (nitrites, amm, etc), have always been fine, but the Nitrates have always been 40. That's one scenario. Plus I've had algae outbreaks much worse than the 26 gallon. That was even before anyone got sick (guessing mid January). Also, I knew nothing about how to properly care for them, so every 2 to 3 weeks, both tanks, I would remove and clean all (fake) plants, ornaments and air stone. I even disassembled the pump and cleaned it and the tubing, rinsed the biofilter and change the carbon filter. Then I'd vacuum 50%, clean the sides, refill, then replace filter and decor. I've always treated the water with AquaSafe, and probably around the fall, started using EasyBalance. I didn't even have a water test kit until over a month ago. I used EasyBalance because I assumed my well water was terrible. Someone told me that me doing this to the tanks was causing it to have to keep repeating the nitrogen cycle. Also, I did not cycle either tank beforehand (didn't know about that either.. yep, I'm a dummy). Maybe that bit of info could help clue y'all in???

Thanks so much for all the help!

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ok, so you are like the rest of us who started here!

So first thing, if Starmon is in a 10 gall with only partial water fill it up! :)

Personally, I think this is a serious water issue. No scrubbing filters......i did this in the beginning. OCD I really think we can save Starmon. But please understand, in the beginning..I only gave half and lost a bunch of fish. If you can give it your all and really listen to the advice you can save your little guy!

Trinket is awesome! I love her, she helped me sooooo very much!

Water, fresh, clean, dechlorinated and temp matched. This is so important. Can you just imagine Starmon swimming like Michael Phelps!!!!!

I want a video!

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Guest mlisa73

Woke up to see Starmon on his back, but still hanging in there. I hope he uprights soon, before the kids get up, or my middle child will stand there and cheer him on (and tap on the glass). Is it ok to help or coax him up? He's behind the airstone. I think I'll move that out a bit to give him more room.

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I really think fish prefer to be alone when they are sick. When well, maybe company is better.

Right now we have to figure out whats's going on with Starmon. Bottom sitting+ coming up for air+ red streaks? Only? Eating well? What do you feed him?

Is this the first time you have seen him flip over, try to balance between a rough place and a stone. It could be swim bladder issues I'm thinking..the red streaks can be caused by stress and or the high nitrates you have had.

Also, um..tapping on the glass should be discouraged as its stressful for sick fish. Tell your daughter cheering is just fine ;)

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Guest mlisa73

Yes, those 3. Plus he doesn't swim a whole lot, and when he does, he just raises up enough to not scrape his belly and kinda glides. I haven't fed him yet today (I'll do that after I get the kids off to school *edit: already did; am back home now*). But he looks completely normal! I recall about a week or two before he got sick, seeing what I thought was eggs (click for picture). Actually, if it would even help, HERE and HERE are links to a thread I started a month ago (more DETAILS!!! :clapping: ).

(sorry it took me so long to respond.. kids got kinda hectic and I couldn't come back to this, then had to run a few errands real quick)

I'm gonna soak a few (freeze-dried) bloodworms and try to hand-feed him them, and test his water while I wait for a response.

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Guest mlisa73

Well, while my salt dissolves.. I've finally got the Nitrates down a little more, believe it or not. Only thing is, it's between 10 and 20. Not quite 10, not quite 20.. but at least it's going in the right direction. And I got him to eat 8 pieces of bloodworms (he wasn't interested in the sun-dried baby shrimp)! And I measured from the top of the rocks to my usual fill area, and it is approximately 69% full (so 31% empty). This salting thing is kinda complicated, but I figured up that I'm ok to do the 10/tsp every 12/hrs. thing (Apr. 5's change, I put 6 tsp. in, Sunday's 50% change took it to 3, plus last night I added 7 [took out & replaced 1/2 gallon if that has any impact], so that should make 10, or pretty darn close). I'm gonna go ahead and take out and replace 20% with salt, AquaSafe, and maybe 1 tsp. of EasyBalance.

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Guest mlisa73

Well, that's done. And without even measuring (until after I was done), it's back up to 69% full. Is it ok to leave it down this far? It almost seems like this could make the nitrates and all more concentrated and higher?

Well, there's not much more I can do, I guess, until 12 hours from now. Then, I'll do another change like I just did. I had a really rough night (hubby's sick) and only got 5 hours sleep, so I'm gonna try to catch a nap before the kids get home. If anyone reads this and has any other ideas, let me know and I'll check when I get up. Thanks a bunch, you guys!

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ummm NOT 20% salt. :badidea

I am hoping that is just a typo!

Can you just fill up the whole tank full of water? It will make calculations easier and your fish happier. :) Is there a reason you are not filling it all the way?

Picture does look like eggs. :

Nitrates in those threads are extremely high. That could be a lot of the issue.

I am at work peeking in. I will getting back in here. Trinket has time zone challenges....she is in Japan. ;) But she will be back to help too!

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Guest mlisa73

When I come back from the bus stop, I'll fill it up (gosh, hope I didn't goof too bad).

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Guest mlisa73

Ok, it's back up now. I guess I didn't take into account that there was 30% less water. But would that actually make it 20% salt? I thought if I did 2 Tbsp (6tsp) on the 5th, 50% change on the 12th, 7 tsp. last night, that (if it were 10 gallons full) that 10 tsp. is the recommended dose. It was kinda late when I read that last night. I'll read it again, next chance I get. Unfortunately, I have bookbags to go through.

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1 teaspoon aquarium salt per gall = .1%

2 teaspoon salt per gall =.2%

3 teaspoon salt per =.3%

Please tell me you are at .2% NOT 20%. If it is 20% do a 100% water change and start over!

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