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Guest ellie325

Beyond Repair?

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Guest ellie325

Ammonia-0

Nitrite-0

Nitrate-20

pH-9

Tank Size-130 litres/ 34 us gallons

Filters- AquaOne External Trickle Filter from a 75litre aquarium, Fluval 3+.

Number of Fish- medium black moor, small telescope, medium oranda

Other symptoms- None

Hi, I bought my black moor from the pet shop with a damaged tail. I'v had him about a year now and have seen no significant worsening, so I presume its not fin rot although I could be wrong. I was just wondering if there was any way I could help the healing process, since it hasn't healed naturally during the year i'v had him, or is it beyond repair now?

It seems to be torn rather than eroded away and is on only one side of the tail. In some places its like the tail has split in two like paint peeling off. I'v tried king british anti- fungus and fin rot, interpet fin rot medication, lots of general medications that claim to heal tissue and none have worked.

I hope these pictures help demonstrate the extent of the damage!

marchy010.jpg

feb09059.jpg

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Hello and welcome to kokos :exactly

If you have tried other meds with no success and also treated for flukes, perhaps salt is the next step. Its quite mild and healing. Finrot -not a symptom of disease is usually a sign of stress only so I would look at something (temperature changes, pH fluctuations, old food, handling etc) that could possibly be a stress factor for him and try to correct that.

Your pH is awful high. Is that reading from the tap or tank? Its unusually high.

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Hard to tell from the photo, but I don't think it is damage. My guess is the fish was born that way. For sure, if it has been that way for a year it is not going to get any better.

-steve

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I really don't think your fish has sustained any damage to his/her tail. If it hasn't gotten better in a year with good water quality (assuming that it's always been fairly good) I would guess he/she was born that way. My Fiona had her fins bitten off almost to the nubbins and they grew back within a few months. So I'd stop adding stressful meds and just let the fish do it's thing :)

Your pH is really high though. You should be shooting for around 7.6. Test your tap water pH and see if that's not causing the high pH. There's several things you can do to lower your pH both naturally and chemically.

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Guest ellie325

Thanks, I was worried about my pH. The pH of my tap water is 9 as well. It hasn't caused any problems in my goldfish tank so it is tempting to leave it, but I have had some deaths with unknown causes in my tropical tanks of rasboras and gouramis. I'm going to stop using medications for now and try and lower my pH. What can I do to lower it?

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I would suggest one of two things to try and "lower" your pH. Do you have access to a filtered water system in your house? Usually these systems have reverse osmosis (RO) water running through them. RO water has (theoretically) nothing but water in it. Check the pH of the filtered water. If it's lower, get a good size bucket and start mixing tap water and tank water until you get a good pH. (I am sure there is a mathematical formula that will tell you how many liters of water you need of each type of water to get a specific pH, but I like the hands on method.) Then remember how many parts of what you used. I would bet it's going to be around 1:4 or 1:5 (RO:tap) But mix for yourself, and find out! Then you can use this formula of water to change your tank water. But be careful when you do water changes, fish are EXTREMELY sensitive to changes in pH. I would actually change only about 10% (around 13L, but I would maybe go with a bit less, like 10L) every day until you get the whole tank changed. That way it's not a big shock.

This is just my advice, I have never done this. I do know that one of our mods uses this method, but I am not sure on exactly the procedure. Wait for a mod's advice.

The other way is to just let it be. Do you happen to know your Kh? There is a kit you can get that measures it. A high Kh means you won't have big pH swings. I would guess yours is pretty high since your pH is also high. If you have a high Kh, don't worry about changing your pH. Goldfish thrive in a wide range of pH with no negative effects (although one of our mods is testing the relationship between high Kh and breeding. Interesting stuff!). As long as there isn't a sudden drop in overall pH, your goldie should be fine. (For example, my pH is around 8.6 and my goldies are fine)

If your Kh is low, you may want to consider using the method I outlined above in addition to a buffer. I recommend using it with the mix method because it will also raise your pH and I think that anything over 9 may be a bit to basic for goldies. (It can burn, can you imagine being burned by air? It'd be like that!)

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You have gotten some good advice here! :)

Did you try salt like Trinket said to do?

Ryukin Girl has a good point with the attempt of lowering your ph slightly. Although, I am with her with the part about never done it before.....?

I would also have to say that your fishies fins just could be unique...meaning born that way! :) If the fish isn't harmed or impaired...why fix something that is not broke? However, salting to .1%-.2% like Trinket advised is always a good bet. She is the best!!

Keep us informed!

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Guest ellie325

Thanks for all the help

I have a very high Kh. I don't remember what it was, but it was at the very top of the scale. I don't think I will try to alter the pH in my goldfish tank because I don't think its affecting them. Interestingly, in my tropical tank I have lots of mollies, platys and guppies and I have never had any babies. Could this be down to the pH? My friend lives about 40 miles away from me and is connected to a different water system and hers are prolific breeders. It would be interesting to see if her pH is lower.

I add a salt solution called 'revitaliser tonic' quite regularly because my moor seems to get excess slime coat patches sometimes, and this clears it up. But i have never seen it improve his tail. I think the conclusion is that he must have been born with a tattered tail.

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Well, the mod I was talking about told me a while ago that high Kh will stop your goldies from breeding. So maybe that is what is happening with your mollies and guppies.

Another piece of advice:

Don't use salt regularly. If you use it all the time, bacteria will become immune to it and when you really need it, it won't work. It would be like if you took a dose of cough medicine everyday. When you actually got a cold it wouldn't do much of anything and you'd have to up to dose. Then bad things would happen because our bodies aren't meant to take that much of any one type of medication. Goldfish can really only tolerate 0.3% salinity for any extended amount. And only that much for at most two weeks. So if you use salt all the time, then when you need it you won't be able to get the good effects from it because to kill the bacteria it would take more than 0.3% and your goldies would not do well in that concentration. Make sense?

Bottom line, don't use salt regularly. Only use it when it is actually needed.

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Guest ellie325

I probably made it sound that I used salt more often than I do use it. I don't use it weekly or even monthly and never when there are no symptoms. I have only used it about three times on the black moor, and then only when he has obviously has excess slime patches. Even though the instructions suggest using it monthly to 'flush the scales of excess body slime' and 'stimulate internal stabalising mechanisms.'

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Guest ellie325

I wasn't expecting this, but the moor has suddnly took a turn for the worst. It is pretty clear this is fin rot now. He is sitting floating at the top of the tank hardly moving at all. I have no idea why this has suddenly happened, there is no nitrite or ammonia in the water, no new fish, no medication.

april1021-1.jpg

I have no idea what to do, please help. He doesn't look like he is going to last much longer.

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