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Caroline

Upgrading Procedure 10 Gal To 20 Gal

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Hi, All

I am brand new to the forum and brand new to the goldfish world. Now, don't get upset with me because I am one of "those" people who went out and got a couple of goldfish without doing a lick of research because I figured - "They're goldfish! What could be so hard??" I'm a dog trainer by profession and nothing drives me more crazy than people like me who don't do their research about their pet. Anyway...

I was sold two red ryukins with a 10 gallon tank, which, I now know is too small. This was a b-day gift for my son on November 25th of this past year. (so, almost 2 months ago) The tank is juuuuust about through it's first cycle, I hope!

I bought a 20 gallon tank today with a 30 gallon filter (is that OK?). My question is: When and how should I go about getting Blubby and Shezhy (the kids named them) into their new home. They have some algae built up on the walls which I think is helping with the nitrogen cycle. All that algae will be lost when I move them over to the big tank.

I'm pretty bad with the matching of the colors with the test kit colors, but I bought a drop kit today and here's what I have:

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 5.0

Nitrate: 10.0

Tap Ph: 8

Tank Ph: 8

I've added salt a couple of times because they were flashing a bit and bottom or top sitting here and there. I do about a 40% water change twice a week.

I'm a mom who doesn't have too much time on my hands and now even less money with the new tank. I will take care of them to the best of my ability and so far they seem like real troopers dealing with such an inexperienced person!

Any suggestions for a smooth transition?

Thanks, in advance!

~ Caroline

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Well, my suggestion is to do it as soon as possible. Just fill up the new tank with sparkling clear water, add some dechlorinator (like Prime or Amquel+ or NovAqua) and then set up the new filter AND the old filter. (Using both filter will be beneficial because you want to have AT LEAST 200 gph filtration. I'm not sure what your filters are rated at. Could you find that information?) Then put your little guys into the new tank. You will have to watch the cycle very closely. It's not done yet. There is a link in my signature about the cycle of the tank that Koko (our admin) wrote.

Also we would love pictures! Especially me! I love Ryukin!

O yeah, and :welcome

EDIT: You will probably want to look up information on the quarantine process. It's almost guaranteed that your fish have flukes (a parasite). O yeah, and please stop salting the tank, unless the water is completely clean it's not helpful and can be harmful. RG

Edited by ryukin girl

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your tank has not finished cycling yet as evidenced by your 5.0 nitrites reading. I would set up the new tank with the same gravel and filter material. ( there is already an established base of beneficial bacteria in them) Do daily readings of your water if you are not sure take it to the lfs (local fish store) and let them show you. I would do 30-50 percent water changes daily until your readings are something like this ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates less then 15, ph 7.0. Are you putting shells in the tank because your ph seemed very high to me (8.0) for a tank that has been running since November. Are the fish ok, any signs of reddness in their fins, rapid breathing. There are great sections on this forum that can help explain a lot this to you. Welcome to Koko's and keep us in touch

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I wouldn't worry about the pH since that is the way it comes from the tap. Just keep it stable and the fish should do fine. Fish are harmed more by a pH that swings up and down.

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Thank you both so much for the speedy replies! I will start the process tonight (my son has been asking every ten minutes when we're going to do it!).

I'll try to answer all your questions:

Current filter is a "Top Fin 10" and the new one is a "Whisper 30 Power Filter"

I don't have shells to add - anything else do it? I know we have hard well water.

Will stop salting. I salted 'cuz I thought I saw a spot of ich between Shezhy's eyes and it went away after salt treatment.

I'm a techno-idiot, but will try to upload a pic. They are pretty!

Thanks for the welcome - you all are so warm and helpful.

~ Caroline

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Oh, and yes, they seem fine. Their breathing seems all over the place. So much so that I'm not really sure what's normal! Sometimes they seem to gasp and other times rapid (like when they are about to be fed) and other times, almost not at all!

The cycle thing is exasperating! I turned the heat up a bit to cycle faster - good? bad? I live in Vermont and I can't just leave it off at night. The light on and heater off alone keep it around the high sixties, but it's now at 78 with light and heat. Seems to warm to me, but what do I know. They seem fine no matter the temp!

~ C

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:welcome

and yes, please post some pics! a great site to use would be photobucket.com.

Well, my suggestion is to do it as soon as possible. Just fill up the new tank with sparkling clear water, add some dechlorinator (like Prime or Amquel+ or NovAqua) and then set up the new filter AND the old filter. (Using both filter will be beneficial because you want to have AT LEAST 200 gph filtration. I'm not sure what your filters are rated at. Could you find that information?) Then put your little guys into the new tank. You will have to watch the cycle very closely. It's not done yet.

:exactly like mentioned above, the BB's (benificial bacteria) have started to grow in your established filter so useing both filters at the same time will help your cycle along. OR you can set up the 20 gal with the new filter and add some of the bio media to it from the old filter and then do a fishless cycle. Cycle, http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/cycle.html

There are great sections on this forum that can help explain a lot this to you.

:bingo: especially 12 Steps to a Healthy Goldfish, http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/TwelveSteps.html

I wouldn't worry about the pH since that is the way it comes from the tap. Just keep it stable and the fish should do fine. Fish are harmed more by a pH that swings up and down.

:exactly I've read a few posts from members who's pH is high and have had no issues w/ their goldies.

you also mentioned using salt, which is good for stress and some illnesses. here is a great thread on Salt, http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876

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heat has nothing to do with cycling your tank. A water range from the high 60's to high 70's is really the range that goldfish thrive in. Do not keep the light on all night as the fish do need to rest. Do not add shells to the tank

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Hi,

We got the 20 Gallon set up and it looks good! The Nitrites are down to 1.0 & Nitrates are down to 5.0. I have both filters running and both fish look happy.

I haven't seen any flukes on them. I'm hesitant to treat for them if it's not necessary.

Thanks for all your help!

Next, I work on getting some photos up.

~ Caroline

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Don't forget you will need to do daily water changes. About 50% is the common consensus. You could even do one 50% in the morning and another in the evening. Maybe you can have your kids help? It's a great way to get them involved and invested in the tank! Nothing connects a pet with an owner like knowing that what you are doing is essential to your pet. Water changes during this time will keep your fish healthy.

Flukes are a - I would say - 75% certainty. Have you noticed your fish "breathing" rapidly? or swimming very fast or changing directions suddenly?

Don't worry about the high pH, my pH is around 8.4 so by my standards your is low!

Can't wait for pictures!

EDIT: I just saw that you mentioned rapid breathing....I would say that's a tell tale sign of Flukes. They are a parasite that lives in the gills. I have seen absolutely GORGEOUS big, rare goldfish, reduced to bottom sitting, lethargy, and basically a slow agonizing death. Don't let that happen to your fish! Friends don't let friends let flukes go un-prazied. Ever! You can find Prazi in a variety of pet stores. If yours doesn't have it, don't worry, you can order it online. A good site is www.goldfishconnection.com

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Hi,

I guess I'm a little confused because I read elsewhere on this site (I couldn't track it down - sorry) that I shouldn't add medications unless absolutely necessary - especially during the cycling process. Also, I don't see any flukes and they aren't doing rapid breathing now that they are in the larger tank. In fact they've never looked better than since they were moved. Can I wait until the cycle is done and then do a prazi treatment? Thank you for the website - My closest store is very limited, so on my next trip to the "big city" I'll pick some up.

I'm going to now try to figure out how to upload my pic!

~ Caroline

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You can't see flukes, they are microscopic. So just cuz you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

You are right about not adding medication while cycling because most meds need pristine water to work their best. However, if you are keeping up with water changes daily to keep the water clean, you can add prazi. The difficulty comes in making sure you add the same amount of prazi back in that you took out with the water change.

When I bought my second fish I had a small uncycled sponge filter in a 10 gallon rubbermaid. I had to change the water twice a day to keep the water clean, and I was prazi-ing at the same time. I went through prazi really fast, but I wiped out any flukes that may have been in there.

I guess it is up to you, you can either do it now, or you can do it when you are done cycling. It may take a while to cycle though.....But like I said it's up to you.

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