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mardaokansi

Gabriel Is Upside Down!

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Well, I'm not one of the experts on here, but maybe this will make you feel a bit better. The best thing you can do for any sick fish, especially if you are not POSITIVE what is wrong, is give them as perfect water as you can. So keep on doing your water changes, but please make sure the water is temperature and PH matched, so as not to shock your fish. If he won't eat the antibiotic food, he won't eat it. If he will eat some peas, that's good. Something is better than nothing. Sometimes, you just have to wait it out. Either they start to get better, or another symptom shows up, and then someone on here will direct you as to what to do next. You are doing the best you can right now for your fish!

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I just noticed when you posted your tank water parameters that you posted your gh/kh and it has me a bit worried:

30 gh tank

0 kh tank

30 gh tap

80 kh tap

Zero kh in the tank I am wondering if that is right. If it is, that could lead to ph crash really easily. I would get some better tests for gh/kh and check it out, you may need to buffer your water with crushed coral or a commercial buffer.

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I just noticed when you posted your tank water parameters that you posted your gh/kh and it has me a bit worried:

30 gh tank

0 kh tank

30 gh tap

80 kh tap

Zero kh in the tank I am wondering if that is right. If it is, that could lead to ph crash really easily. I would get some better tests for gh/kh and check it out, you may need to buffer your water with crushed coral or a commercial buffer.

I don't feel comfortable w/ the test strip results, but they were the only thing all 3 stores carried for KH and GH. I am unable to get any coral or buffer 2night. I have been thinking about getting some buff it up from goldfish connection, but I don't know if I have the funds for that at this time. I'll see what I can do about buying drop tests for the KH and GH, I wish those tests came in the master test kit from api!! every1 here must think I'm nutts for posting so much; I'm just really worried about my baby!

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I don't feel comfortable w/ the test strip results, but they were the only thing all 3 stores carried for KH and GH. I am unable to get any coral or buffer 2night. I have been thinking about getting some buff it up from goldfish connection, but I don't know if I have the funds for that at this time. I'll see what I can do about buying drop tests for the KH and GH, I wish those tests came in the master test kit from api!! every1 here must think I'm nutts for posting so much; I'm just really worried about my baby!

It's OK, just keep a close eye on your ph for now. If you are doing a lot of water changes anyhow, you will probably be OK short term. Just something you want to get a handle on long-term.

I think everyone who has had a sick fish can understand how frustrating it is when you want to do something, but either you don't know what to do, or there just isn't anything you can do. I will say though, that I am pretty sure that in the beginning, I think I hurt my fish MORE by over-medicating and trying to help when I should have just salted the water and done water changes. When I was new, I thought my fish had every illness in the book! Poor fishies! Two of them still survived to be 7 years old though, they really were TOUGH!

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thanks for posting. I just checked on him and his scales are sticking straight out now, what do you guys call that, pine cone or something?

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Yes its dropsy (all this means is fluid accumulation inside the fish). Dont panic. You are doing good with the epsom salt. It has to be replaced when you do a water change. Yes, a heater will help but make sure you bring up the heat gradually. Try to get him eat the medicated food but if he wont you are going to need to medicate the water.

Most important is that the pH is stable- keep checking that please- a kH of zero means pH is going down every time you leave the water in the tank longer than a day. This means until you get the pH issue sorted you really need to be changing his water every single day 80% at least- of course matching the temperature.

I suggest you get your hands on some METRONIDAZOLE which does a good job of disinfecting the digestive tract. Your fish is not eating and bloated- these two symptoms suggest the bacteria is actually in the digestive tract. The antibiotic that most often treats these kind of anaerobe GI tract favoring bacteria is metro. You can get it straight from Seachem named Metronidazole OR you can use Metro + (salt and metro) by Aquarium solutions. Can you get either of these soon? Preferably the first one by Seachem.

Please do not use Maracyn products on a dropsied fish.

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he isn't eating the jungle medicated food. I was looking on the homepage of koko's and looked under dropsy. it offers a variety of medication and I can go to the store 2morrow and pick up some maracyn-two, but it comes in powder not tablets. should I get the 8 pack or 24?

Maracyn Two

Background: active ingredient Minocycline, B-complex vitamins. A broad-spectrum antibiotic for internal or external gram negative bacterial infections. Effective treatment of fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, dropsy, bleeding or red streaks, secondary and internal infections. Effective even when fish won't eat.

Dosage: For freshwater, use 2 tablets per 10 gallons first day and 1 tablet per 10 gallons thereafter. For saltwater, use 1 tablet per 10 gallons first day and 1 tablet per 20 gallons thereafter.

Precautions: As with Maracyn, remove the carbon in the filter for optimal medication effect. Supposedly doesn't harm the beneficial bacteria, and can safely be used in combination with Maracyn, in which case the water parameters need to be watched.

I shouldn't have been so complacent about the pH and just bought the buff it up a couple of months ago when I was having problems w/ the pH. but I'll wait to beat myself up totally until he recovers from this. I have not added more melafix after the water change 2day but I did add epsom salt.

I'm worried about this aswell:

Normally when you see this stage of it the goldfish will most likely not live for much longer
I really hope that's not the case.

edit I just saw the rest of your post about the maracyn, so 4get what I wrote above about it. I'll check the websites be4 I go to the store 2morrow considering I live 45 mins away. thank you so much for your response. :)

edit 2 neither pets mart or pet co carry the first thing you prescribed. where can I look for it??

Edited by Martha

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PLEASE do not use Maracyn 2 on a dropsied fish.

Could you read my last post again.

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ok, I can order it from big als online but by the time it gets here will it be too late?!

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I'm sorry I misread you, I'm a little frantic but I did see that you said not to use macaryn. if I could edit or delete that post I would

Edited by Martha

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Not if you can keep his water PERFECT until then. Fish can manage a week without eating in perfect water.

Dropsy is such a general term and there are so many antibiotics out there that treat so many different bacteria but I feel strongly that the bacteria you are dealing with here will respond to metro.

The idea is to treat with a water born antibiotic in order for the fish to regain his appetite. After that you can return to the Jungle food which is compatible with Metro.

By the way before your fish got sick did you always have the airwand in your tank?

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actually I didn't. I was waiting until I got him into his 20 gal tank.

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Fits- even more reason in that case for this to be an anaerobe bacteria.

Its good you have one now as these bacteria hate oxygen...

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stupid question, but the best way to keep his water perfect would be a daily wc? oh and what temperature should I raise it to after gradually raising it?

Edited by Martha

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Yes. That would be best. Add back your tiniest bit of epsom salt. Make sure the water is approx same pH and temp. Clean water daily- 80% should be fine so you can leave the fish in...

There are no stupid questions here!!! :D All questions welcome. We have all been where you are- most of us found kokos like that.

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would 5 grams of the Metronidazole be enough for a full treatment?

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here's the update for 2day:

I called 3 stores in my area and not one of them carries metronidazole or metro +. I did order some metronidazole online but they told me I probably won't get it this week b/c of the new year. :tantrum

Gabriel is still on the bottom of the tank upside down. I do a pretty large wc at night and replace the epsom salt. I do not keep his filter on all the time, mainly b/c it draws him in and he can't get away. He seems to be hanging on, he's a TOUGH lil guy!!

I really hope that the meds arrive this week. Also, my mom is going to contact a scientist 2morrow who works with the Maryland/Virginia Fisheries Department. I also tried 2 contact some veternarians around my area but none have called me back. :(

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You can get straight Metronidazole from any vet. Its the exact same drug used for cats/dogs etc. Any good vet should give it to you.

You will need 25mg per gallon for prolonged immersion which I recommend. You need to do this 3 times. Once each day for 3 days. Antibiotics work in a build up way so you end up with 75mg per gallon total used. Metro usually comes as a powder and needs to be mixed very aggressively as its not very soluble. You can do this with a smallest amount of boiling water in a jar, shaken.

Fishery dept people do not usually know very much about fish treatment/medication since many drugs used in the aquatic industry are forbidden for use in food fish. (My brother works and researches for the Boston/London ministry of fisheries).

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I did see that they sell it for dogs in tablet form. I will see if my vet (that I use for my dogs) will prescribe me some. they come in 250 mg and 500 mg.

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so do I do this in his 20 gal tank or in something smaller?

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As he is in the 20 gallon. Larger space is always better and less stressful.

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ok, I forgot to mention, but I found a slither of his fin (I think his tail, it was long) floating around the tank.

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Oh...

Well - we are def. on the right track with systemic internal bacterial infection. I hope you can get the meds soon.

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:glare: oh I am just kicking myself now. I had mentioned to my dad 2day about talking to our vet about the meds but we decided to check the pet stores first. and now I'm scared that 2morrow will be too late!

just to make sure I do this right, how long is "prolonged immersion"? like the whole day and next day start fresh or only have him in it for a couple of hours?

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All day. For 3 days. One application a day.

That is assuming you have a cycled tank so NO ammonia interferes with the meds.

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