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Guest baygentst

Septicemia

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Guest baygentst

Our fish has septicemia, and we are on borrowed time, since this is a terrible disease. The is exhibiting all the signs but will still eat. I need a crash course ASAP to how to treat this. All i have gathered is a combination of Marcyn and Marcyn 2 + feeding with medicated fish food.

What needs to be done? 7" Comet.

I dont have water quality data off hand but the tank water is not the issue at this point..(it may have led to this however i know). I just need the quick and dirty way of treating the bacteria before the fish stops eating and dies.

Please give me a maintenance schedual on this. Should we treat the tank per the directions with Marcyn2 + feed antibacterial food. Should we double the dose? Soak food in concentrated Marcyn + Marcyn2 then feed. Help! He is moved to a small rescue tank at the moment as to keep the other small plecos safe.

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The first thing to do with septicemia is a pH and temperature matched or pH higher 100% water change.

Always.

Sometimes septicemia can be cured by correcting low pH alone.

Then -and only then since meds can kill immediately in certain water conditions including high nitrates- depending on symptoms- you start treating with the appropriate medication. Septicemia is the final result of several diseases and the beginning result of others. So all the symptoms need to be noted and then the best medication chosen.

Are the fins only affected?

Do you see red spots on the belly?

Is there any bloating?

Are either of the eyes bulging?

How long has the fish not been eating?

Is breathing labored?

What color are the gills?

How severe are the red streaks on the tail fins? Any tail rot?

Water parameters and tank set up tell us so much- including "have you recently added any new fish or items to the tank?"

Please check all of them and let us know soon.

There are no short cuts here. Short cuts can kill. Please give us more info so we can help more precisely and avoid an immediate death with possibly wrong meds given in unchanged water.

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Guest baygentst

Right now only the fins are affected, there is red spotting / streaks in the fins and small zit looking growths on the back fin. The dorsal fin/pectral fins will get red then clear up get red clear up we are currently medicating with Marcyn 2.

There is one red spot starting under his chin that sort of looks like a T and follows the indent under his mouth parts (i dont know how to explain it)

There is no apparent bloating yet.

No eye bulging.

The fish is still eating normally, but when nobody is around the tank he is lethargic and often hangs in an upward position until somebody comes by.

Breathing is not labored.

Cant see in the gills easily, since hes not breathing labored.

One spot is dark red (1/2" long 1/8" wide that slowly disintegrates to a light streak to the base of his body) no tail rot maybe a split.

WE moved this fish from a 46 gallon bowfront to a 10 gallon rescue so we dont have to dose the 46 gallon with the plecos. There have been no new fish added in 1 over a year. The 46 gallon tank has a magnum 360 canister filter dual bio wheels and get a weekly 20% water change. The 10 gallon rescue has a standard off the shelf hang on waterfall filter on it. My mom has started treating with Marcyn 2 because she was not sure what it was but thought it was internal (due to the hemmoraging). THis clears the fins up some but then when they are clear the next morning will be spotted again. Since hes in a 10 gallon right now she changes water daily (we realize that the meds your not suppose to change the water, but such a large fish in a small tank we want to avoid ammonia, nitriates, nitrates) and not treat a 46 gallon or the 55 we have.

I will post water quality numbers in 15 minutes.

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Guest baygentst

pH = 7.2

Ammonia = .25 ppm

Nitrites = 0

Nitrates = 10

Temp = 77 F

This is a 10 gallon quarantine tank, we change the water daily. Pics coming

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One of my fish developed very similar red spots when I let my nitrates get high. I would watch those in your main tank as a source of aggravation. How many fish in the 46? Over time bacteria levels build up and some fish are just so much more susceptible. Especially long finned fish like this one where the fins touch the bottom and sides of the tank all the time. I still recommend a full water change (80~100%) on the main tank.

As far as how he is progressing in QT. the daily water changes are good but the meds do not seem to be working. As a general rule of thumb you should see improvement within 2 days of using any antibiotic if the antibiotic is the appropriate one. Unfortunately there are many strains of bacteria that cause this kind of septic tail rot and each one responds to a different antibiotic. It can be a very shot gun thing selecting the correct one.

A clean QT with daily water changes and some fresh medicated food like Medigold or Jungles antibacterial -since he is eating- will probably be your best shot at getting rid of this.

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Guest baygentst

The 46 gallon bowfront only has the gold fish and 2 small plecos (less than 3"s) in it. The tank has been running well over a year and he has never had any problems until now.

Its hard that he has to be in the small QT tank but we cannot treat a whole 46 gallons with meds. We will be feeding him medicated food too. He seems to respond to the Marcyn 2 and starts to look better then the next day looks bad again i just don't get it, i don't know if having to change the water daily is reducing the effectiveness of the meds.

The Plecos in the 46 seem happy as clams in high tide.

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No there is no need to treat the whole big tank at all. Just the large water change. 20% weekly for one year doesn't clear the tank of bacterial build up. Every so often a larger change is really necessary.

Any ammonia in the QT will make him worse again so I suggest you get some zeolite/ammo chips to add to the QT filter. Ammoni can peak within hours in an uncycled QT with meds in and will undo any advantage of the meds.

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Guest baygentst

WE got some of the jungles medicated food but the pieces are too small and sink to the bottom and the fish never sees them, is it okay to take floating pellets and soak in Marcyn 2 and then feed the fish those?

Thanks

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Any chance you can hand feed? Just put them near his mouth?

I had to hold my fish to feed them.

I will try and find an answer....but you could try the hand fed. Once they get used to your hand there and notice food it should be ok.

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Guest baygentst

Help! We have been changing water everyday and dosing with Mycan 2 then we soak floating pellets in mycn 2 to make medicine to eat. The clears up (spots go away) but then the next day looks worse. This keeps happening he will look better than worse look better than worse. I dont know what to do we have been treating him over a week now.

Hes still eating still moving around not sitting but he is constantly getting better than worse better than worse.

HELP

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Guest baygentst

It looks like he clears up then goes bloody again. Cant hand feed hes to big and skiddish

Edited by baygentst

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If the meds are not working they are wrong. They need to be removed urgently. How far in are you with the Maracyn course?

We need to establish what is wrong with your fish. Maybe its not septicemia, maybe its parasites here. Maracyn and medicated food will not work on parasites.

Can you please give us some more info. You say your fish is skittish. Does he sort of flash around the tank darting occasionally? Does he appear to try and scratch himself on the gravel or ornaments or tank sides?

And 2 very important questions...are the 2 plecos new? And what kind of plecos are they?

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Guest baygentst

We have been dosing with Maracyn for probably 2 weeks, in a 10 gallon tank daily water changes. Hes always been skiddish since day one with people putting hands / python in the tank.

And no, he does not try to scratch himself on the rocks or anything, and does not dart around the tank (really he cant anyways in the 10G but he never did in the 46 either). The plecos are not new, they have been in the tank for quite awhile and are very small. One is a rubber nose pleco (i think that's the type) and the other one is a clown pleco i think.

The fins will clear up almost completly then all of a suddon will get bloody again. Looks like his gill my be getting a bit red now too.

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How are things now with the fish, Baygentst? Any improvements? :)

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Guest baygentst

Well the fish is not dead but still looks awful. We moved him from a 10gallon QT tank to a 20gallon QT tank because we were afraid the small water quantity was polluting the water and stressing the fish out further. We kept dosing with Marycn 2 but to no avail. We have now switched to penecillin gel food that you drip in the water. I have not been able to find any other medicines that list septicemia on them or recommended ones. We purchased the "jungle food" but it was way to small and the fish never even saw the food.

He still swims around and eats, but will hang in a verticle position when nobody is around then move around and get excited when people come to the tank. He has been eating a mixture of flake food, food soaked in marycn, lettuce and greens.

Here is a video of his current condition and he is looking awful to say the least.

Sick Fish

I think hes going to die, we have been trying to save him for a month but he still has not gotten any better. Water conditions are OK. Also substituting ammonia chips right now too.

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I wonder why you are still feeding him Maracyn? Maracyn is not the solution here. Its quite clearly making him worse.

This looks like poisoning. I have tried to explain to you how septicimea -like dropsy- are merely symptoms they are NOT diseases. All medications say they treat for septicemia have you noticed? This is because septicemia is a symptom of many and perhaps all diseases.

Each antibiotic drug treats one small group of bacteria that infect fish. Maracyn has a small range of bacteria that it treats. If you have struck lucky and targeted the right bacteria then you will ALWAYS see improvement within the first 2 days of using an antibiotic medication. If you continue the medication without seeing improvement you are in effect poisoning the fish.

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Guest baygentst
I wonder why you are still feeding him Maracyn? Maracyn is not the solution here. Its quite clearly making him worse.

This looks like poisoning. I have tried to explain to you how septicimea -like dropsy- are merely symptoms they are NOT diseases. All medications say they treat for septicemia have you noticed? This is because septicemia is a symptom of many and perhaps all diseases.

Each antibiotic drug treats one small group of bacteria that infect fish. Maracyn has a small range of bacteria that it treats. If you have struck lucky and targeted the right bacteria then you will ALWAYS see improvement within the first 2 days of using an antibiotic medication. If you continue the medication without seeing improvement you are in effect poisoning the fish.

Any suggestions then? IF we don't use marycn within 1 day he is even worse and becomes lethargic...I dont know what other medicines to try, and i cant find any at the stores.

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The more I watch that vid, the more I think this looks like toxic poisoning- ammonia and or pH or a contaminent in the water like soap. The tank water volume also looks way small for a comet/single tail fish that needs 20 gallons minmum to de-stress.

I would have chosen Triple Sulfa antibiotic for this kind of dermal burn. But most importantly no meds are going to work until you get your tank water safe. That means zero ammonia and stable pH for a few months. These two are acid burners as are high nitrates.

How often do you rinse your filter media? Perhaps you need more media?

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Guest baygentst

We are going to switch to triple sulfa, he was moved from the 10G quarantine tank to a 20G quarantine tank with 2 hang on the back waterfall filters currently. Normally the fish is in a 45 gallon aquarium with a magnum 350 canister filter and dual bio wheels, but it makes no sence trying to treat an entire 45-50 gallons of water. We just moved him tanks yesterday so we will see what happens.

I changed 80% of the water today and started the first dose of triple sulfa. We are using ammonia chips too since this is an uncycled tank. I will post back with tank parameters.

Thanks

Tom

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Good luck Tom. This antibiotic plus the extra space and ammonia free water may just do it.

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Wow that's a bold move transporting a sick fish into a completely new, uncycled tank. Please tell me you used some of the old tank's water or some of the old filter media with the new tank. That will help jumpstart your cyle much much faster.

Also, before switching to triple sulfa, did you use T.C Tetracycline by API? This helped my goldfish get over septicemia faily quickly. Keep going, you're doing great.

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WE got some of the jungles medicated food but the pieces are too small and sink to the bottom and the fish never sees them, is it okay to take floating pellets and soak in Marcyn 2 and then feed the fish those?

Thanks

That's really a shame you can't find some way to feed your fish the Jungle medicated food. That's what I fed to my gf that had septicemia. He was covered in red streaks all over his body/fins and got so lethargic he would sit on the bottom all day only coming up for food. I got the Jungle and he ate it right up. Even the very next day he started showing improvement. After the 10 day course of feeding my gf was cured--he looked great and was active and never had any sign of septicemia again. That was the only med I used--nothing in the water or any other changes so I know it was the Jungle that worked.

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Wow! I always thought that Jungle was a sort of cheapo not working brand of fish medications. Very interesting...

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