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CountryLovah

Still Problems With Orandas! :(

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Okay i went ahead and tried the PP again and this time its purple/pink and no odd fish behavior!! soooo i am going to try to NOT do a water change tonight.. because thats when i have problems! i do a water change and then have to add prime and then the water turns amber and the fish get weird...

was this good imo??!! lol

And basically I think i will try for 4 days but if at any time they act bad i will move them directly to the 40 gallon, and then if need be i can always take individual fish back out if treatment is needed (like for miss sam)

if you can still read my last post and answer the q's cuz you know my mind doesn't rest if i am wondering, even if it's not important!!!

: )

by mod or more experienced member I truly meant really the MODS or you.

dork!! we are both on the same page i think... and i bow down to the mods.... i'm still waiting for daryl to REALLY allow me to come change fish tanks for her! (yep I still remember that comment, it made me all giddy!)

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Just wanted to say you're doing a great job Sue! I hope your babies are happy and healthy again in no time :heart

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Sue, it sounds like things are working out from reading your recent post. Sending good thoughts your way. :exactly

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Sue~ any updates? How's everything?

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Just came on to update in fact! : )

First off, there were a bunch of q's in my last couple of posts, that at this point are not crucial to treatment, but just love to know to satisfy my urge for knowledge lol if it's too much for you to sift through, I can copy and paste them imo..

Oh why waste time, here:

Sooo at this point... what should be the plan?? You said you'd rather stay away from the TriSulfa, so I am assiming IF things get worse, the appropriate med to try would be the kanamycin, used in conjuction with more Jungle?? (ONly if things get worse). Or would I use the kanamycin with a furan water med?
Also question... You said that Furan 2 has meth blue.. The package says 60mg Nitrofurazone and 25 mg Furazolidone.. Why is meth blue not listed??
And here's another q (Of course)... If I move them into that tank before things are cleared up for good, is that bad? Will that mean this tank is always harboring the bad bacteria???

Now onto updates : )

PP day one worked perfect! : ) And now it's PP day two, AND by not doing a water change, therfore NOT adding Prime, the water turned purple again, and no odd fish behavior!!! I am still curious WHY the fish were getting weird when the water went straight to amber, because I would think that just meant it was inactive, therefore no harm nor benefits. But obviously it was doing SOMETHING in the water that did not bode well for the fish... So day two is off to a good start : ) So I am hoping that this time the 4 day treament can be complete... I went ahead and continued feeding the jungle even though it's past 30 days during treatment. Is that good or should I just end the jungle and start variety of foods like jumpstart, etc.?? I believe it's about day 32 or 33 of jungle.. I stopped for 2 days because the 30 had been completed, but then I wasn't sure whether to continue it throughout the 4 days of PP treatment.

No more missing scales, actually one is growing back! YAY!.. Sams mouth is looking good! Swelling has gone completely down as far as I can see...

I've been removing the ammo chips during the PP treatments, and the ammonia in the tank is showing up on the seachem meter, but only at like 0.25ppm. Normally I would do a water change, but then we run into the water conditioner ruining the PP treatment problem, so is this going to be okay? I figure two more days then a huge water change the 4th night after the water turns amber. Then I can use prime and following the directions in the book, they would then get one final ONe day dose on day 8 directly before being transferred to the 40 gallon.

Does this all sound good?

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Does this all sound good?

Yes it sounds great. PP is the original "cure" for columnaris. Antibiotics as an alternative came later. Good job. The Jungle also however should not be underestimated as that has been dealing with systemic infection. I strongly suggest you stop now though. Its long enough for those and overdosing takes away benefits. Jumpstart (which can be fed alongside veggies etc) is better now.

Now to answer the 3 Qs:

#1: Probably use nothing now. For future ref. not furan and kanamycin in the water but if there is significant tail rot + obvious fuzzy type/mouth rot columnaris evidence then kanamycin in the water and Jungles furan food (the one you fed) is a good call.

#2 Furan-2 itself -by AP -contains meth blue yes. The one you have is prob the powder Furan 2 variety which has no meth blue in it but is called the same name to confuse us!

#3 I think your tank is now free of nasties. I would certainly hope so. The fish can cope with a few bugs remember and have also probably obtained (a very limited ) immunity.

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Yay!!! I am sooo glad everything sounds good, and I am sooo glad the PP is working this time.... Do you agree that they can handle the trace amounts of ammonia? I think they are better off with the ammonia than attempting a water change and screwing everything up!

The great news is it's been quite a while since the second dose was added and they made it through JUST perfect. It's beginning to turn amber (it's been a good 5-6 hours so thats totally okay) and the fish are still behaving absolutely perfectly... things look good :)

#1: Probably use nothing now. For future ref. not furan and kanamycin in the water but if there is significant tail rot + obvious fuzzy type/mouth rot columnaris evidence then kanamycin in the water and Jungles furan food (the one you fed) is a good call.

Thanks, good to know for the future : )

#2 Furan-2 itself -by AP -contains meth blue yes. The one you have is prob the powder Furan 2 variety which has no meth blue in it but is called the same name to confuse us!

LMAO yep it's the power one from API... what other form is there? A liquid? Also good to know.. thanks! : )

#3 I think your tank is now free of nasties. I would certainly hope so. The fish can cope with a few bugs remember and have also probably obtained (a very limited ) immunity.

Fabulous! I hope it's free of them finally too... That only leaves on tank with any trace of the original media and thats angels, and SHE is being moved into a new tank shortly. Brand new 10 gallon and filter...

Thanks Imo! You are as always my favorite person EVER! LOL And yes i am planning on starting the Imogen fan club and I am president... : )

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Oh and yes i will stop the jungle. the jump start i have is about 5 months old.. Hopefully still good. And i'll try to veggie them out a bit too : )

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Thanks Imo! You are as always my favorite person EVER! LOL And yes i am planning on starting the Imogen fan club and I am president... : )

Big blush :thanks . I remember feeling the same about Mods/helpers who helped me years back, I think its the first person that comes to your rescue with sick pets that you tend to remember for a long time. Thankyou sweetie, it means so much and thanks for being a great friend!!! :heart

You have done soooooooo well. You have really done your very best for your fish and should feel proud. They have really strutted their little fins in turn for ya :heart and come up roses :flowerss

Yes. Get onto the peas. They must be missing those :D

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Day three PP added and it's pinkish purple with happy fish!!! YAY!!!! I am soo relieve things are going soo well this time... Maybe this will be enough to finally end this drama for good!! Everyday that I start the treatment and it appears to go well I am soo excited! : )

Big blush :thanks . I remember feeling the same about Mods/helpers who helped me years back, I think its the first person that comes to your rescue with sick pets that you tend to remember for a long time. Thankyou sweetie, it means so much and thanks for being a great friend!!! :heart

Yep, you've been there with me since the beginning of all this and I won't ever forget it.... I still remember that night that I was having problems with Angel & Miranda and you and I sat there going back and forth with posts for a good 4-5 hours.. And I remember how no matter what I asked or how little it seemed you were right there with answers and support.. Thats the day I went to burger king to get an internet connection to tell you how the removal of the anchor worm went when my interent went out! LOL I was sooo excited I couldn't just NOT tell you lol

I think thats also the first time Shane realized how awesome koko's was... Before that he kinda thought I was crazy for spending time on a goldfish board, and he didn't understand what great people there were... Then when you did that he said "wow they REALLY care don't they??"...

I'm so happy right now! : ) Now I have water changes followed by more water changes...!! : )

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O Sue! I am so glad to hear that everything is turning up roses! I will keep my fins crossed for you, although with as much help as you are getting I think that's a bit superfluous! :)

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That is so great that things are going so well finally. Maybe this time it will indeed put paid to the problem and you can actually just sit back and enjoy them. And you might even finally find time to post some new pics of everyone that we haven't seen in a while. Everything crossed and prayers still being said.

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Thanks Sarah & Kath! : ) I'll take all the good wishes, and crossing of things I can get (Remember that time i told you to cross EVERYTHING Kathy while I was waiting to find out if I could get kismet? LOL)

I know right??? I need some free time to just do the FUN fish stuff, post on here, take pictures and update them... They look REALLY good today.. The PP isn't even bothering them a BIT today!

I was reading more of fancy goldfish and I came accross a section that made me think of Malibu. It's basically what Trinket said a while back. How with her not showing signs it was hard to know how severe it was.. It was saying that bacteria can effect them inside and target a partcular organ such as the kidney (which we all thought was the case with Mali). And the fish will appear absolutely normal then just go fast, or swell up super quickly and pass.. Very much what happened with Malibu... Poor little thing, i had no idea : ( But at least it brought everything to our attention, and made it clear that a stronger treatment like the PP was needed, and hopefully the other orandas can beat this... Sweet little babies! : )

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I am so glad that the PP is working this time...I think this will help a lot. So this is good news all around. When you lost Malibu it totally made me realize how something liek that can totally take you by surprise, so I'm always a bit freaked out by that possibility, but in some ways it is good to have an idea of what happened and a kidney infection seems pretty likely. Poor sweetie.

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I was reading more of fancy goldfish and I came accross a section that made me think of Malibu. It's basically what Trinket said a while back. How with her not showing signs it was hard to know how severe it was.. It was saying that bacteria can effect them inside and target a partcular organ such as the kidney (which we all thought was the case with Mali). And the fish will appear absolutely normal then just go fast, or swell up super quickly and pass.. Very much what happened with Malibu... Poor little thing, i had no idea : ( But at least it brought everything to our attention, and made it clear that a stronger treatment like the PP was needed, and hopefully the other orandas can beat this... Sweet little babies! : )

Good ol' Fancy Goldfish! I often forget I have it and go straight to Koko's, but then I go get it and answer my own questions :rolleyes:

Glad to hear things are going so well!

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I know I love that book. Actually I have a lot of great books, but i do the same thing and tend to come to kokos first then read... I trust this place, and most of the knowledge here comes from books like that, and sources like that but it's much easier having a person to talk to about everything!.

Well we made it to PP day 4!! I can't believe it... I don't think the ammo chips are working though.. Because I am seeing ammonia at 0.50! AHHH! Again it's a tricky situation because I HATE to see the ammonia climb, but the PP treatment has been going soooo well that I hate to ruin things with a water change, prime and then have problems... They aren't acting bothered, so they just need to hang in there til tonight and they will get 100% fresh water! YAY!

Some ammo chips discussion here:

I have been recharging the ammo chips with salt, so thats not the problem.. Only thing I can think of is that PPing the ammo chips DOES have an effect on them.. Who knows..

I am getting contradictory info when it comes to ammo chips.. SOME say that they absorb the ammonia and you should see NO ammonia reading at all. Some say they simply convert the ammonia to non toxic ammonium (similar to the way prime binds for 24 hours) therefore you will still see an ammonia reading on normal tests but you will have accurate results when using something that measures free toxic ammonia... Which is true?

I tend to think it's the second because when the ammo chips were working there were times when I was getting a reading of 0.75 in the tank when using API drops, but when checking the ammonia levels on my seachem ammonia meter, I was seeing 0.02 or even 0..

NOW, if this is true, doesn't that mean that ammo chips COULD be used while cycling? i've head before no because they remove the ammona therefore with no ammonia there is nothing to feed the cycle... BUT if it's the second case, and it is there but non toxic then it is still available to the cycle as food..

Any thoughts anyone??

And another question of course.. lol

Given the ammonia climbing in my tanks but not wanting to use a water conditioner and effect/deactive the pp, what is better. Leaving the fish in higher ammonia water, or doing a water change with NO water conditioner added, basically meaning that any chlorines/chloramines/heavy metals have not been treated. Which is more harmful to the fish??

Think i've finished my q's for now... Either way, they are ACTUALLY on day 4!! I can't believe it! They seem to be doing well so i am really optimistic..Hang in there babies, we'll have you in clean water soon!!

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I am sooo glad things are going good this time. Been a long haul for both you and them. Maybe, just maybe, this will take care of things at last.

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:nana

Day 4 is COMPLETE!!!!!!

FINALLY! I just did 100% water changes for them, and they are in crystal clear ammonia free water now, doing well.... All three orandas look happy and I don't see any changes since the other day as far as any negative behavior or strange spots... Kahlua still has her white spot.... soo who the heck knows what that is, but, they made it through the PP treatment just great.. Now they (and i) get a break... Days 5, 6 and 7 require nothing.. Day 8 they get one final treatment then the move back into the 40 gallon which has been PPed once again!! SO they SHOULD be bug free. If not we have some seriously stubborn bacteria!!!!

SInce it requires one more treatment on Thursday, I am going to do large water changes Tuesday night, add the prime, and that way by Thursday it should be deactivated but also they won't have to go sooo long without a water change.

Let's hope this finally does the trick cause frankly, we are running out of options!

Thanks for all your good wishes, thoughts, prayers, etc guys!!! I LLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUU!

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I sure hope you have this thing licked once and for all.... it's so exhausting! Best wishes and good luck!

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Congratulations on a job well done! Just a note on the white dorsal spot. Fish can have naturally occurring pimples on the dorsal fin if its same color and has always been there..it could be an erroneous thing. The front spine of the dorsal usually has the line of pimples all the way down and sometimes youll see one of those in a different place noticeable on white fin fish. I use to think that first line of pimples meant boy but realise now that all my white finned/calico fry have them and so its only the pectoral fin first spine pimples that indicate male..

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Thanks Imo!! Of course you have to go back and read all my ammo chips questions though from a few posts ago when you have time LOL

Oh yeah.. Thanks for the heads up about the dorsal pimple... but actually I THINK the one you are talking about is Mirandas dorsal pimple, and that one has never been a major concern for me (I did ask you about it once last week). The one that borthers me is one white fuzzy type spot that changes size on Kahlua's pectoral fin, near her gills that was NOT always there.... It showed up right before she got a columnaris type pimple in the middle of HER dorsal... Gets confusing with all these pimples huh?? LMAO

Anyway, Mirandas is still there but thats the one that means nothing and is exactly as you described. Kahlua's is also still there and that one I am hoping goes away soon... Finally Samantha has a white section that was BIG at one point and has been fading, and she got that right before she got sick the first time.. And that also seemed to fit as a columnaris type infection (said it was probably a section of bacteria clustered or something?)

Long story short, all good today though : ) LMAO Can I EVER make things short? no lol

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Sue, I'm so happy that your goldies are doing better.

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