Jump to content

Mouth Rot? Cloudy Eye? Please Help My Poor Comet


CometCrzy

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

Hi all, I'm new to this forum but I'll been searching around here a lot. You all seem to give very helpful advice around here and so please help me, this has been bothering me for weeks.

I currently have 3 comets (10inches from mouth to end of the tail maybe?) each residing in my 2 year old, 20 gal tank. 2 months ago one of them caught on fin rot and so we treated the whole tank with EM Erythromycin and melafix shortly after that comet healed all these problems started.

After a cloudy tank and my poor comets staying at the bottom all the time, I took my water to mmm to run tests. They told me I had an ammonia spike that went off the charts!! Ph was about 6.5 and nitrates were ok (no numbers though) I was advised to put in aquarium salt about 3 teaspoons for the whole tank and stresszyme + aquaclear and make partial water changes until the water clears up. For the past two weeks I've been doing just that. One 50% water change, followed by 20% ones every two days. Now the waters cleared a bit (I haven't retested the water yet) BUT

one of my goldfish started to shed skin around his mouth and it looks a bit swollen and red now. Also his eyes is a bit cloudy and sometimes he even makes these twitching sporatic movements for a little bit then stops and clamps his fins for awhile before it relaxes again.

It really breaks my heart seeing him go through this and I don't know what else I can do besides change the water until he gets better. I've had these comets for about 3 years now, we got them for probably $1 teeny tiny and now they're so big, I'll really hate to lose them. I have a new 40 gallon tank and new filter waiting for them to move into when he gets better -_- so please help

Sorry I was only able to answer some of it :(

*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 6.2-6.5

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?7.0

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Wardley Midrange PH Drops/ API Master Kit @mmm

[*]Water temperature? 62

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gallon, 2 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquaclear 30

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? usually 20 % once every week, these two weeks, 20% every two days

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 comets, one 4 inch, 2 8 inch (not including tail span)

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aquaclear+ Stresszyme+ aquarium salt

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari Floating type Wheat Germ , 2x a day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Melafix, EM a few weeks back

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? one had frayed fins but I suspect somebody nipped him not fin rot

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Sporatic Twitching when excited ex I feed him, turn the light on, other fish touch him

fish1.jpg

fish2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 103
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Can you go back to the chain store (we don't know which one because when you type say pet*smart we see nnnn) and ask for the EXACT numbers of the tests? It would be best to buy the tests for yourself if you can. But exact numbers now would be better than nothing.

We can't really help until we know the exact condition your water is in.

Also your tank is over stocked. Commons/comets need 20+ gallons each in order to be healthy. This means you really should have AT LEAST a 60 gallon tank, if not more. I would probably recommend a 70 or 80 gallon tank because your fishies are so big!

Once we have the water situation worked out hopefully someone can help with the other problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi CometCrzy and welcome to the forum!

The first thing you may want to address here is you water changes. With a large ammonia spike 50% isn't enough. You should do a 100% temp and ph matched water change and do it pretty quickly. It would work much better than 20% every two days.

As Ryukin girl already mentioned you are overstocked. If you have a 40 gallon tank ready, it would be great for 2 of the comets to go into that and leave one in the 20 gallon. 40 gallons is also going to be too small for 3 comets. You've already seen for yourself how fast they grow!

And you are going to need more filtration. I realize that your filter is for a 30 gallon tank, but goldfish need double the filtration of tropicals. They are huge waste outputters and ammonia even comes from their gills. I have a 30 gallon with 2 filters made for a 30-50 gallon tank. Plus do you have a bubble wand or something to oxygenate the water?

We really need those numbers of your water params. If you can get a API Master Test Kit that would be best. The strips are very inaccurate. If not, then you can go to your lfs and tell them that you need the specific numbers. Your ph should be at least 7 for goldfish as they like the alkalinity and shivering many times is a result of low ph.

The first pic of your fish worries me a little. Are his scales pineconed? It could just be the angle of the shot.

Please post back as soon as you can and we will all pitch in and help you to help your fish! :)

Edited by vickielm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks for your quick replies! I will try to get the numbers asap.

I do realize my tank is wayyy overstocked but if you saw them 1 yr ago, they had plenty of space to swim..my 40 gallon tank will be equipped with an aquaclear 70 filter and an airstone after I finish setting it up. The little one might be staying at my current 20 gallon tank by itself with my grandparents whom always come over and gives them so much attention.

@vickielm- Im not sure what you mean by "pineconed"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Thanks for your quick replies! I will try to get the numbers asap.

I do realize my tank is wayyy overstocked but if you saw them 1 yr ago, they had plenty of space to swim..my 40 gallon tank will be equipped with an aquaclear 70 filter and an airstone after I finish setting it up. The little one might be staying at my current 20 gallon tank by itself with my grandparents whom always come over and gives them so much attention.

@vickielm- Im not sure what you mean by "pineconed"?

Sticking out like a pinecone. But again, it may just be the angle of the picture. Probably nothing to worry about but I just noticed it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Good catch on the filter Vickie! I didn't even notice that

You should have AT LEAST 10x filtration on goldfish tanks. That means 400gph in your case (I would even go higher if I were you)

Definately a large water change is needed (I didn't suggest it before because without the params, it's not safe to do one. The water needs to be pH and temperature matched.)

I don't know if I would do a 100% water change without knowing the pH of your tap water. Maybe do a 60-75% water change. Let that sit then like 6-12 hours later do another of the same quantity.

You want to get all of the addatives you put in there out. Except, of course, the dechlorinator.

Don't add anymore salt or stresszyme! This could be the culprit (unlikely but you never know). It's like doing an experiment in high school. You want to make sure you have as few variables as possible. All those addatives are just variables that can mess with the outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

It does sound to be all water related as others have said. I hope you can keep doing very large water changes daily and get yourself a master test kit to measure ammonia/nitrites and pH daily. Your tank has had a big cycle bump. It can happen very fast and leaves the door open for bacteria in the water to infect your fish. Looks like your fish has mouth rot/columnaris but the meds you used will have damaged all your good bacteria protecting you from this kind of crash. Good water must be the first thing you do here for your fish. Sustained -ammonia free-nitrite free- good water conditions. This is so much easier in a larger tank with more filtration.

Only then can you determine how serious this is and what to do next. Trust me, even with disease symptoms showing good water is 80% of the healing battle.

Please post back when the water is clear of ammonia and nitrite.

And :welcome

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Alright I just came back from Pet*land and these are the readings. They use the API kit I was only able to get ammonia and PH

Shameful to say, my p.H is 6.0 and ammonia level at 2.0!! Im such a horrible owner :( I feel terrible with them in these living conditions..

according to the guy there who seems to have much experience with fish, he told me the reason they're still living is probably because I have a low pH which makes the ammonia stable, not that its a good thing but it stops it from acting up. Is that true? Any other suggestions on what to do besides changing the water? I'm really worried how much longer these guys can hold up.

Also he suggested a 100% water change..should I do it? if I do will that shock my fishes?

Thank you everyone who's been helping me on this!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh my goodness a store keeper that recommends a 100% water change!!! Id like to meet him and praise his good sense. You are lucky. You have a very knowledgable guy there- use him!!!!!

He is also absolutely right about the ammonia and the pH keeping it safer. Ammonia is far less caustic in low pH.

He is absolutely correct too on what to do next. The water holds the key to your fishes health here. Do a 100% water change BUT make sure you also do 2 things. One) Check with your finger the water you change him into is approx the same temperature as what he came out of and two) make sure the pH in the new water is not too different.

You can do both by draining the tank very very slowly and at the same time adding new water very very slowly. Gradual is key. Gradual change up of pH. He is a comet and comet/common fish are hardier with pH changes. This is an emergency so pH up change of as much as 5 is prob safe. Any more an djust be careful to go very slow. Stagger the water in and out over a few hours or so if you can. Sudden changes shock fish and send them into stress alert which blocks immune response- bad.

We have a saying here - take care of your water and the water in turn takes care of your fish. Fish health is all about the water. This is why test kits are the first thing everyone keeping fish should buy (after tank and filter and fish of course :P ). Fish can heal themselves up fine in good water a lot of the time. The water is a fishes life support system. they cannot even monitor their own body temperature like humans and mammals can, they are totally dependent on the water we give them and totally dependent also on their owners understanding of the water chemistry.

You have caught this in time. You know whats wrong and you have the solution right at your fingertips.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

wow for the first time the chain store is right? im working on the water situation right now... also should I quarantine the "common" with the mouth rot? If its columnaris i read its contagious. I'm very worried about this since I read a thread on this forum of a member having a similar case like mine.

:unsure:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...562&hl=lucy

PS. regarding VickieL's concern, his scales are not pineconed, I checked =)

Edited by CometCrzy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Yes i remember that thread. Columnaris is very common and there are various kinds. But none of them can be treated effectively in water even slightly off tilter. (Even in that thread you will see that when the ammonia peaked Lucy's/Luc's mouth rot got a lot worse..)The water has to be perfect before going ahead with treatments or the fish will die. There are various treatment options for columnaris and after you had the water straight I was going to talk you through a series of questions to determine which is best for your fish and your set up. For example if he is behaving normally with no bottom sitting you may be able to get away with the simplest treatment like salt and medicated food. A topical application even. A more aggressive treatment like Binox, antibiotics in the water or a tricide-neo dip even might be needed if he is suffering more etc..please post back soon. I will check back on you later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thanks a lot Trinket, I'm so happy I've come to the right place for advice :)

Update: His mouth rot started to turn red and looked like bleeding(before it just looked like his skin color only peeling), I got nervous and quickly pulled him from the community tank and put him in the 10 gal I've been setting up.. so now the sick one is sitting in the 10 gal powered by the aquaclear 30 and the 20 gallon is powered by the new aquaclear 70 I brought. I did a MASSIVE water change last night between both tanks and managed to get the pH. up to 6.6, however the ammonia and everything else is still TBD. I ordered the API master kit everyone seemed to recommend and it should be shipping out soon, its probably better to do your own readings then go back and forth to your lfs.

Comet (I never really gave them names =/) who is sitting in the 10 gal seem have stopped clamping his dorsal fin, however he doesn't swim much and just nudges the sides of the tank near the 20 gal which I placed right next to him. I wonder if he's going to eat too? I haven't tried that part yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The twitching you mentioned- since you have not introduced new fish- seems to be a symptom of this disease with many fish. It is almost as if the skin is itchy which would fit given that columnaris is initially a disease of the skin. The bacteria under a microscope produce stacked little columns of themselves that attach and are growing in those little stacks on the surface of the fishes slime coat. Sometimes the stacks can be seen as either yellow or grey fluffy pigment. Looks a little like fungus, but it is bacteria.

It is considered very infectious because the bacteria sheds in the water. It is extremely important to keep reducing the bacterial count in the water itself via large water changes, daily. The severity of the disease is in direct proportion to the amount of bacteria present in the water. Please keep up the QT w/cs and also I think 50% daily on the main tank. Hopefully you will have the API test soon to see if more than this is warranted based on any readings for ammonia/nitrites.

It looks like his mouth is affected worst. The bacteria are internalising. If he is still eating I think you could try a course of Jungle anti-bacterial food and salt to start. This is primarily a skin disease so really a water born treatment is appropriate too to treat the skin all over best. I am just wondering which is least dangerous in a cycle crashed tank...can you manage to do 100% temperature and pH matched water changes in the QT and monitor for ammon ia daily for the fish affected in which case you could medicate in there with something stronger and salt only the main tank?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Trinket, unfortunately as of now I can't monitor ammonia or nitrates until the Master Kit comes in, they promise to ship within 5 business days..I'm really hoping it'll get here by this weekend the latest. I don't know whats going to happen next :(

The only thing I have in hand right now is a pH monitor...I have the wardley's midrange ph drops..I was able to test the water for both tanks...hosp. 6.6, regular 6.2, I guess I didn't change as much water as I thought =/ What is the "optimal" for everything anyway. I'll try my best to get there..

Also you mentioned adding salt in the aquarium, ryukin girl mentioned I shouldn't add too much factors into my problem water so since the huge water change last night, I haven't added any. I have a 20 gal tank, I used to add 3 tablespoons..is that enough or should I get more aggressive?

Edited by CometCrzy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Meanwhile..water changes should help up the pH (it should be between 7 and 8). Keep at those, daily half tank minimum each time for both!

There's a link in my signature, if you click on it will talk you through salting at a higher level. The salt you have there (aquarium sold) is fine but very expensive. Pickling, rock, sea or kosher salt works just as well- you'll need to add 2 teaspoons to each gallon of tank water to get you to 0.2%. I would do that now anyway after a 80% water change on both tanks. This could be considered urgent so straight to 0.2% is fine I think. :iwill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

alright, did another 50% water change and added about 3 TABLESPoOONs of salt (sorry don't have a teaspoon lying around and google tells me 1 tablespoon=3 teaspoons) in the hospital tank. He's not moving much just sitting at the bottom, I wonder if that will stress him out even more :(

As for the main tank, did a 70% water change, tested the pH again, now about 6.6, seems like everytime I do a large water change it jumps the pH one notch. :D added 3 tablespoons of salt too and I checked everywhere for the Jungle medicated food but unfortunately no chain store near me carries it =( I will either have to order it online (wait some more) or drive up to Jersey for a Pet*smart to get some, but that will have to be this weekend. And one more question i have for the medicated food..should I buy one bottle just for him or should I get enough for everyone (preventive measures maybe?) seems to be a really small bottle....

again thanks for your advice Trinket, I need all the help I can get :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

First of all salt does not stress. It is actually a rare fish that has a salt in tolerance at levels up to 0.3%.

Salt is a great soother at low levels. It protects the gills and slimecoat from invading bacteria by acting as a sticky to trap them and stops them entering the fishes system. It also assists in reducing osmotic pressure exerted anywhere there is a fracture of slimecoat or breech of skin- your fishes mouth for example.

How many gallons of water does the hospital tank hold? the 3 tablespoons you have in there is roughly 0.1% in a 10 gallon tank. We can work out how much more you'll need if you let me know gallons there.

He will bottom sit. Low pH, new surroundings and not feeling well. Did you match the temperature in the QT to the same as what he came from?

What kind of meds are available to you?Ordering online may be quickest with overnight shipping if thats a possibility. I'll just post this much and wait for your reply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
one more question i have for the medicated food..should I buy one bottle just for him or should I get enough for everyone (preventive measures maybe?) seems to be a really small bottle....

Size varies. May I recommend Dr Fosters site for the Jungle food- there is a sale on it right now. One of those tubs will do for all your fish if its needed (which is as soon as any of the other fish show symptoms and only then: by symptoms I mean similar mouth rot, small red spots or behaving abnormally like bottom sitting)

I suggest while you are ordering you get some melafix (always useful to have) as its also at only $4.29 here ...and lastly FURANACE (click on the word to take you to the site to order) which is a very strong but powerful water treatment for this disease which you should use IF and only IF your fish shows no sign of improving on the Jungle food and in the salt after 3 days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Good luck Cometcrzy! Trinket has given you the best advice there is and she is always right on the money.

Soooo glad the scales were just a trick of the light!

Keep posting and let us know whats going on, ok?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Good luck Cometcrzy! Trinket has given you the best advice there is and she is always right on the money.

Soooo glad the scales were just a trick of the light!

Keep posting and let us know whats going on, ok?

Thanks Vickie...I can tell she's good at this. She knows all kinds of treatments and medicines so well. Are you practising in this field Trinket? Or are you just a super fish-fantatic?

So in regards to your suggestion... I searched high and low for a fish store that carries "furanace" (believe me I have numbers to about 20 LFS within 20 miles of me) and FINALLY found Fishtown USA in NY does, its a bit of a drive for me but what is 15-20 miles to save my goldfish right? Ironically I ordered the API Water Test Kit from DrFOsterSmith, it has been shipped out but won't get here till at least tues =(.. Im tempted to just buy it at Fishtown USA if they have it there and just return the shipped one when it comes. I will pick up the anti baterial food tonight, theres a lfs near me that sells it... still keeping up with the water changes, comet still sunken at the bottom looking sad and lonely barely breathing =(

PS. Hospital Tank= 10 gal added some more salt today another 3 tbspn

Big Tank= 20 gal 6 tbspoon added

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I can tell you love your fish very much. Hopefully with Trinket's good advice and knowledge everything will be ok.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your fish...who by the way...does he or she have a name? We're crazy about naming our fish and it helps the mods keep them in mind when we have trouble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hang in there. He has come this far and been through the worst( fighting this in bad water). The salted good water I promise you is helping him.

While you wait on the arrival of meds ,can you meanwhile try feeding him some high vitamin food like maybe a few soft de-shelled peas or the tiniest piece of a brocolli floret?

(Oh and cometcrazy- yes I am definitely a serious fishfanatic addict Lol)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
I can tell you love your fish very much. Hopefully with Trinket's good advice and knowledge everything will be ok.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and your fish...who by the way...does he or she have a name? We're crazy about naming our fish and it helps the mods keep them in mind when we have trouble.

Well we lost track of who's who but I guess we can call him "Comet" for this topics sake, since he's really a "Common" then I guess "Comet" is just his name :painting:

yet another update: Started on the Jungle Labs Antibacterial food. By Golly they are so small!! My fish usually eat koi food, hikari floating wheat germs and perhaps the size of these "pellets" were tiny, none of them were really interested in the food. Unfortunately Comet didn't want it either.... any suggestions on how to make them eat? I was thinking of adding it with their regular food but the instructions said to not mix with anything.

and RYC @ Trinket: will frozen peas be ok? or is fresh better, I only have frozen at this moment but I guess I can make a supermarket run after I hit Fishtown USA.

Update on Water ( Im getting a free test everytime I visit a lfs until the kit comes!!)

Ph: 6.6

Ammonia: 1.0

Nitrite/Nitrate: Unknown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...