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New Goldfish Tank


stevey87

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Hello I just purchased 29 gal tank and added some goldfish and rosey red minnows.

I got 5 ryukins, 3 shubunkins, 2 orandas, and 10 rosey red minnows.

They get along well now but I have some questions, I bought these fish from different locations but it seems like the labeling in nnnn is a little off so I have some pictures and questions.

First of all, those of you who are experts, please tell me if they are the types or breed the stored labled them as.

Orange Ryukin

7493d1225602182-need-answers-quick-please-orange-ryukin.jpg

Red and White Ryukin

and why are the end of his fins turning black and his left face changing colour?

7495d1225602300-need-answers-quick-please-red-white-ryukin.jpg

Red head ryukin

7494d1225602182-need-answers-quick-please-red-head-ryukin.jpg

White Ryukin

He picked on the new member's tail fins 'calico ryukin'. he's trouble

and is he even a ryukin?

7487d1225472309-need-answers-quick-please-img_0193.jpg

Orange Oranda

good personality and always seems happy BUT end of his fins and tail started to change black since i bought him which is several days ago, is something wrong? Everything else seems fine

7492d1225602182-need-answers-quick-please-orange-oranda.jpg

'Blue Oranda' was the lable

... don't have pic but I think it's oranda for sure

Shubunkins they've been pecked by someone because 2 of they have split or ripped rear tail fins and I'm not happy about it. I'm thinking it's the ryukins, I read all over the web that ryukins are aggressive goldfish.

What should I do?

7497d1225602300-need-answers-quick-please-shubunkin.jpg

7498d1225602473-need-answers-quick-please-shubunkin-2.jpg

Calico Ryukin was the lable HOWEVER something tells me this ain't a ryukin

He was alone and last one to be introduced to the tank and that little white ryukin started peckin his tail fins and ever since that calico one kept hiding in the tree root ornament but he's getting better.

His right eye looks normal but his left eye is all black but I don't think he's blind cuz when i put my finger to him without tapping the glass when only his black eye is facing me, he still swims away. One of my shubunkin has both eyes that are black but I don't think he's blind either. I think it has to do with their coloring.

7489d1225602031-need-answers-quick-please-calico-ryukin.jpg

7490d1225602031-need-answers-quick-please-calico-ryukin-2.jpg

Rosey Red Minnows

I got em for 17C and I'm lucky to have ones that are vibrant and not scared of the goldfish even tho they're meant for feeder fish, how sad. They eat food like crazy and when I first introduced them to the tank, the orange oranada and shubunkins tried to eat them but they swim so fast that all the goldfish gave up on it and they seem to be doing very well. They look better in rea life, looks brown in pic.

7491d1225602031-need-answers-quick-please-minnow.jpg

I'm scared of the ryukins attacking other fish. I see them just peckin anything that comes in their way, I dont think they're trying to hurt others but still....

I have undergravel filter using carbon and how often should I change water and how much each time and how often should I change the carbon cartridge and how often and how much should I feed them. I have flakes now but I don't think it's the best option because left overs make water cloudy. I'm thinking of getting the small pebble food thing but still give some flakes for the minnows.

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Hiya!

Whooooa, first off, you are insanely, crazy overstocked. If you're a new goldfish owner, I would really really recommend looking at Koko's basic care of goldfish page. I don't have the link but I'm sure another member can supply it.

Fancy goldfish (the ryukins, Orandas and Shubunkings I think as well) need ten gallons EACH. You should only have three MAX in there. The rosey minnows I am not sure about, as I mostly see them only sold as feeder fish.

These fish look pretty terrible, which I'm sure is not your fault. They look malnourished and stunted, probably due to being kept in overstocked, crowded conditions. The aggression is probably due to the fact that there are just way too many fish in there. If you don't take out these fish soon, they will start dropping like flies. There should only be three in there for these fsh to live healthy lifespans.

Colour change in goldfish is pretty common but not in such a short timespan. What are the water paramenters? I have heard of fish's tails turning black due to the water being untreated or the parameters being dangerously high.

Hopefully we can get some other words of wisdom chiming in here to help you set things to rights. But I can say for sure that you need to take 18 fish outta there pronto if you want them to live.

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Yikes, no. There most definitely is NOT room for more fish. Did the pet shop you purchased the fish from talk over things with you? If they told you that twenty-nine fish can fit in there because it is twenty nine gallons, then they are mistaken. I'm guessing they didn't take much time to go over basic care with you if you are wondering when to change water and carbon. Here is the link on BASIC goldfish care from this site: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/care.html

Goldfish are carp. They grow to at least six inches long, sometimes over a foot in length. They are also very deep-bodied fish that produce a lot of waste. The "one inch of fish per gallon" rule does NOT apply to them.

There is no way that the VAST majority of these fish will live unless you take most of them out of the tank. The pet shop probably had tons of fish in their tank, but you should never use a pet store's tanks as an example. I know because I work in one. They are dangerously overstocked because they count on people buying the fish quickly. I also know from experience that most pet shops give out terrible, often TOTALLY WRONG information about keeping fish, because they do not take the time to properly educate their employees. The employees have to learn the correct information on their own time.

Would you please mind telling me what the people at the pet shop(s) told you when you were purchasing these guys? That way we can look at all the information and help you sort out what's good and what is not. :)

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Some said inch of fish per gallon, one said about 7 goldfish for 29 gallon. Anyways, what am i supposed to do then? But they all seem happy. What did you mean when you think they're in bad condition? I know they grow to 6 inches + but they still have years and years before that happens, so for their size isn't it ok?

Can you answer my other questions from my first post? When you said bad condition of the fish, do u mean because they're overstocked or because they stores didn't care?

Edited by stevey87
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Well, if it is a good pet shop, they should let you return the fish no problem. If it's like many places who don't care about where their fish go, they may not let you return them. In that case you will either have to get the remaining fish their own tank(s), or get creative in re-homing them. You can look and see if your city has a local online aquarium club. There are always people looking for free fish. It may be a bit of a hassle to figure out what to do with them, but they are living creatures who do deserve some though towards their basic well-being in my opinion. The pet shops really should have prepared you better about all this. It makes me so mad to see the way people are so trusting of the advice of pet stores that obviously don't know much about fish! Pet stores oughta be a place to get good information, not wrong information.

In terms of the fish being in "bad condition", I'm not exactly an expert in show-quality fish, but if you take a few moments to look at some of the other member's fish (just browse the site for a while and read the threads - it's fun!) you will be able to see what I mean. The red-headed Ryukin and second Shubunkin pic you have here makes it pretty clear - the shubunkin looks like he has a bit of a wonky back, which is a big sign of being malnourished and overcrowded. Again, very likely not your fault at all and something he came with. Bad supplier to the store! The Red-head Ryukin's belly just looks...odd. Maybe it is just a really bad photo of him caught in the act of almost turning, but his belly should be nice and round, uniformly.

Also about them seeming happy, I think they are probably not that happy if you have been experiencing such trouble with their aggression towards each other. Goldfish generally are very peaceful and do not harrass one another unless they are breeding (which only happens after they are mature after a year or so).

How long has the tank been up? Did you cycle the tank?

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pictures to help prove a point...

kokos1.jpg

my two oldest fish (1 1/2 years) when i first got them...

OldTankwithFishies.jpg

this is them in a 29 gal tank...

20080927-225021.jpg

this is them now a year and a half later...

20080923-073202.jpg

in a 72 gal tank with only 3 other goldfish... that's a total of 5 goldfish in a 72 gal tank...

and they are still growing.

i change out at least 75% of their water once a week...

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if you really wish to keep them all, and you have the space...

i suggest rubbermaid tubs. if you want to keep them all in one tub...

you might try a rubbermaid stock tank. they're a bit pricey though.

you can usually find them in tack and supply stores.

they're usually used as water troughs for livestock.

but basically it'd be like a miniature stock pond for your fish.

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The bad condition is almost certainly from the place they originated from, unless you have had them in that tank for a long time. They look like they were bred in less than ideal conditions.

In terms of them being "ok" for "years and years" until they reach their full size...no, that won't happen. You started out pretty small too, right? Would you have been ok for years and years living in your crib until you were a full-grown adult? No way! You probably would not have grown up well at all. You'd be all bent up and not normal-looking! Same thing with goldfish. Same thing with almost every living thing. They will be ok-ish for a VERY short period. But not twenty fish in a 29 gallon. I garauntee you that you will get some deaths very soon if you don't upgrade the tank. Even if you did a water-change every day (and who wants to do that kinda upkeep for fish) they would still be unhealthy.

As for your original questions, I have never used an undergravel filter before so I am unfamiliar with the kind of routine one would have to employ for those. I would assume that is you did a google search on undergravel filter use, you could learn about it. But water changes are usually done once a week, taking out between 25-50% of the water and replacing it with fresh.

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if you really wish to keep them all, and you have the space...

i suggest rubbermaid tubs. if you want to keep them all in one tub...

you might try a rubbermaid stock tank. they're a bit pricey though.

you can usually find them in tack and supply stores.

they're usually used as water troughs for livestock.

but basically it'd be like a miniature stock pond for your fish.

Can you explain more, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't wanna give my fish back. I like every one of them.

Edited by stevey87
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If you like every one of your fish, and you want them to live, you MUST find them bigger homes IMMEDIATELY. Take Tink's advice and get yourself several big rubbermaid containers as temporary tanks. But you must also get air bubblers and, in my opnion, filters of some kind, for these tubs as well.

The rubbermaid containers are just those big plastic storage bins, like the kind that goes under beds or in closets. Take the lid off, fill with dechloirnated water, add a bubbler and filter and you can keep the fish in there.

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You got them all less than two weeks ago. So I'm guessing you didn't cycle the tank. I'm amazed none of them have died already, they must be tough fish! Did you do any research or reading of goldfish or fish at all before buying them? Just need to know what level of beginner we're dealing with here :) We were all there once!

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ok, some suggestions that require a bit of quick action...

first in your 29 gal tank...

you really need to either return some fish, get rubbermaid tubs and use them as tanks, or be prepared for some ill fish shortly

if possible, return as many as you can to the store because even 3 goldfish in your tank is pushing it without adequate filtration and a strict water changing regime.

your fish with the black showing up is suffering from ammonia burn.

too many fish in the tank producing waste... and i don't think you're doing multiple daily water changes

which would be what's required to keep water parameters safe for your fish.

it's not about size of your fish, but about the amount of waste produced by your large quantity of fish being in a small tank. (it may look ok, but image a baby's diaper... small space+lots of accumulated poo= bad things happening)

right now the key questions we need answered are

1. are you willing to part with your fish?

2. if not, do you have the budget to upgrade your tank or purchase more?

3. what kind of filtration have you got going on your tank?

4. how often are you changing the water?

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Yep, 29 gals is pretty big...for guppies! Not for goldies. I know it seems big but it really isn't for our lovely gold friends :) For example, to keep all the fish you have now in a healthy tank...you would need, what, 150 gallons?

The water in there is their air, it's really important to their health. Overstocking a tank is like shoving twenty people in your bedroom and thinking that's a fine way to live.

Tink is giving some great advice here about deciding what you want to do. Unfortunately there are not many options, you're in a bit of a bind here. I know it's not nice to hear but there's no trick that will make 20 fish in 29 gallons work :(

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chloe and i have already given you suggestions as what you might be able to do given the fact that you want to keep your fish.

bottom line is... with that many fish in a 29 gallon tank, if you're not doing multiple, large water changes a day... your fish will start dying (and soon).

the color changing, is just the beginning. those are the warning signs of poor water conditions.

29 gallons is just barely big enough for 3 fancy goldfish. check out this tank as an example...

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...st&p=814552

not to mention your shubunkins are single tails which require at least 20 gals... they will get big if they have the chance.

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i personally have a hard time differentiating between ryukins and fantails at a young age... the first two pictures you posted may be ryukins since there's the presence of a small hump... even then though, it's difficult to tell.

the nipping is probably due to the space crunch and ryukins in general tend to be a bit more nippy. we also don't know the gender of your fish, and if you've got a few males in there, it may even become more of a problem. :(

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Ah...yes, this is what we have been saying, back to the pet store 18 of them must go! But not because they are "aggressive". It's not the fault of the fish. I'd be pretty "aggressive" too if I had to share my apartment with nineteen other people :)

THe minnows may seem like a "free space" fish, but they should be taken into account as well. That's just ten fish competing for food and oxygen in the tank that could be given to your fancy goldfish. If you decide to keep the minnows in there, then I think you could only have one fancy goldy in there (I think??)

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stevey... we don't want to scare you or anything...

but something else to keep in mind as well is that if your goldfish get big...

they will probably eat the minnows eventually. just FYI... if it fits in their mouths...

it's food. :rolleyes: silly goldfish... fish are friends... not food.

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Well if it's a half-decent store they should remember you and honour it, but really, it's just money. Return those guys even if you have to sacrifice the refund. Because otherwise they'll just die in the tank and the money will have been wasted anyways.

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