Jump to content

Flukes Again?


Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? 5-10

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? ph7.2

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? 7.2

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) API Freshwater Master Testkit, drops

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 9 months, 50 US gallons

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? Fluval 204 External Filter and Eheim Aquaball.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? about 40% once a week and monthly huge changes

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1- Usher a yellow common, 6 inches, just over 3 years old.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Yes just added 3/4 gram of Cedapraz- I didn't like treating before getting advice on here but this was this morning and I've not had internet access all day and couldn't leave him without doing something.

[*]Add any new fish to the tank? No

[*]What do you feed your fish? Hikari pellets, Tetrafin flakes, peas, bloodworms, etc

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? Yes, when I went downstairs this morning he was bottom sitting, fins clamped (the very worst thing to wake up to! :( ) and he's been like that on and off since. When I open the lid he gets up and begs so he is capeable of moving- but returns to the bottom shortly after. Also, there were some huge poops in the tank although not stringy- but very unusual for him, normally they're very small and these were like worms. No changes to his diet to affect this though. To give some background, he had flukes in July and was treated with Cedapraz and recovered well, or so I thought- thread on that here http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...=71261&st=0 this is why I treated with the Cedapraz again today out of panic. Hopefully it won't have done any harm. Another unusual thing is when I go in to check on him, as soon as he sees/hears me he dives round the tank careering into the sides. Last time he was ill with flukes he was darting but it wasn't just when I approached- it was more erratic, and could happen when I was sitting quietly watching him. This seems to be entirely related to sound and movement. Sorry for rambling on but I just wanted to record everything I can think of.

Any thoughts on this? Can flukes reoccur even after treatment? He seemed fine at the weekend although I didn't watch him as much as normal as I was out a lot. Any help much appreciated- those of you who saw my last thread will know how much I love him- I hate seeing him like this :(

Thank you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Caroline - I remember the drama we had before with Usher. Sorry to hear things aren't good right now.

To answer the question - flukes are very tenacious survivors; it only takes a few to escape meds and in time they can gather strength and re infest. Do you remember how many treatments you did last time? Also how many days between doses? Sometimes it can take up to 8 doses to erradicate them.

Here is a good schedule

Day 1 -- remove carbon, water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank

Day 2 -- add Prazi

Day 3 -- no treatment

Day 4 -- no treatment

Day 5 -- no treatment

Day 6 -- add Prazi

Day 7 -- add Prazi

Day 8 -- normal water change with vacuuming

Day 14 - normal water change, then add prazi

Day 21 - normal water change, then add prazi

Day 28 - normal water change, then add prazi

Day 35 - normal water change, add carbon, treatment is finished

There is absolutely no harm in running the Cedapraz again as it cannot harm the fish or filter. Let us know if you see any improvement as a result of the treatment.

But while we are exploring things, are there any other symptoms? You mentioned very long poops like worms? Is the fish looking thin at all? Is he eating normally? Is there any redness anywhere? - under armpits, on skin, in fins?

Post back with any updates or new info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Thank you for the help!

I did 5 treatments last time, every 4 days. I'm not sure how much Cedapraz I have left, will have to check tomorrow and potentially order more. I don't have any carbon in my filter, and today I just added the cedapraz without a waterchange due to a lack of time although it was only changed 2 days ago. So I should add it (if I have any left eek) tomorrow again? As I remember last time I only had to add one dose then wait rather than 2 consecutive doses. Was that wrong?

Yes long poops, but he doesn't look thin no, not at all! He's eating normally. Last time, he got red marks on his head and side, the head one has faded almost completely but the others are still faintly there but more like darker scales than the bright redness that was there last time. I thought they were discoloured scales that had grown back and healed. Thinking about it, they could still be a sign of illness I suppose.

I'm going to try to sleep now but will report back tomorrow, hopefully the treatment will improve him overnight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

You were up as late as me!

I'm hoping Trinket might drop by for a second opinion, but I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to order Wormer Plus by Kusuri(http://www.wormerplus.co.uk/index.php) Chris Ingham runs this Co. and is very helpful and nice - tell him you're from Kokosgoldfish.

This is a fenbendazole treatment which knocks out a very wide range of internal and external pests and, like Prazi, it is harmless to fish and filters.

The advantage is that, unlike Cedapraz, it is quite cheap and deals with far more than just flukes and tapes; once you've treated with this you will be pretty certain to have ruled out most parasites, so if Usher still exhibits symptoms we can think about bacterial possibilities.

Let us know if he seems improved at all after the last of the Cedapraz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The Wormer Plus looks really good, although I will try the prazi course first as I have plenty left. It's been in the silver foil bag it came in, sealed, so I assume it won't have gone out of date or anything?

Should I be adding more Prazi today to follow your schedule? His weekly waterchange is due on Friday so I may have to bring it forward to start the schedule from the beginning again and get it accurate. Should I be adding a 3/4 of a gram dose every time? Or do I half that and add it over a 2 day period? Sorry just a bit confused by the consecutive days bit.

Today he isn't bottom sitting as far as I've seen but he is hovering near the bottom and his fins aren't clamped. He's still very jumpy though and not himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I've just noticed something...

Whilst watching his tank I saw a very tiny thin white worm like thing wriggling in the water :unsure: I've never seen this before and I assume it may have something to do with his illness... some sort of worm related issue rather than flukes. Should I order the Wormer Plus or will the Cedapraz deal with it? It did say on the Cedapraz it deals with 'all tapeworms'. But I can order the wormer plus if you think that would be more effective.

Oh and I got the gravel vac and sucked the worm thing out. Can't see any more.

Edited by Carolinedoodle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hmmn - this was more what I was thinking might be the problem. Your water regimen and readings don't fit so well with such a sudden return of flukes, considering you treated only in July. Also the head tilting down posture is common with internal worms.

I would definitely go with Wormer Plus as it deals with so many more types of worms than just tapes. Tapeworms are not typicaly found live and wriggling outside the body - they look kind of flat and like dental tape when they have been expelled. Yours sound more like some kind of nematode. If it is tapeworm, the Wormer Plus will deal with it, but if it's nematodes the Cedapraz won't.

Call Chris on the link I left and ask him to send it - it really isn't expensive and I think it will solve your problem efficiently.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

You can - but just be sure to change out all the prazi and maybe run carbon before adding the fenbendazole. - Not 100% certain about the interaction between these 2 parasiticides.

We have the same tank (180?) and I've taken to putting the fish in a bucket and doing 100% changes every week - it's a lot of lugging if you don't have a python but definitely worth re-filling the tank before the new meds.

Watch the fish as much as possible after dosing the wormer and you may see him expelling parasites. Chris asks for pics of anything you see hanging out of the fish or lying on the tank floor for his files - did you see any of the pics he has so far? Gross.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I'm ordering it online now, the 500 gallons one. That should be enough for over 10 treatments if required. Usher isn't bottom sitting now but is clamping fins on and off and has red marks on him again, including one on his tummy :(

Just pressed order now and it says they'll contact me as soon as possible, or I can pay with paypal now, I don't have a paypal account but my dad does and he'll be home soon so I can do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I checked just before and he was bottom sitting and clamped and didn't move when I approached the tank, he was still breathing and his eyes were moving. I've come up to go to bed now but can't stop worrying. I suppose there is nothing I can do till the wormer comes. I just hope he makes it, I love him to bits. :cry1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The only thing you could do to make him a little more comfortable is to put him in a floating breeding basket (if you have one) - you know the soft mesh ones which you can hook over the side? It may just relieve him of the weight of the water - the tank we both have is quite deep and that can weigh on fish who is bottomed. Otherwise, try not to worry and just get that treatment in as soon as it plops through the letterbox.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...