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Malibu Has Pop Eye..


CountryLovah

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UGH!!!! My orandas can't seem to catch a break.. I want to get them all 4 moved into the 40 gallon but there is just problem after problem!!

First tank: Miranda & Samantha.... Miranda started out with anchor worm. Then Samantha got Pop Eye.. Then later Samantha had another bacteral infection, (columnaris infection AND septicemia we think..white section on tail, flat but definately milky white, mouth strings, scales falling off, blood spots, blood streaks, fins split, all at same time) Miranda had some red streaking and a spot that looked like it could have become a mouth string.. Grrr...So they both got MetroMeds's for 30 days and a course of Triple Sulfa.. I hoped they were healing but there is still some red streaking on Sam. However she is mostly white, sooo who knows. But I still think it DOES look like more than she ever had before. Well, THEN Sam developed another white pimple on her dorsal (this looked more fuzzy, not like a pinkish columnaris pimple). I decided not to treat with anymore meds since they just had two types. I ended up reading an old post of Imo's saying how after the med courses, it's normal for a cut to develop fungus. So my guess was that when her fin had ripped/split, it left a wound open and a fungus grew on it. Her behavior has been normal which also indicated fungus, so I decided to only attempt 0.1% salt again, and extra vitamin c foods.. (they liked their kiwi).. It APPEARS to be going down, so hopefully that tank is okay? So for now I won't answer the questions in the box pertaining to that tank... for now...

Then in the other tank, we have Kahlua & Malibu. Kahlua also had white pimples, one which went away, one didn't. The first appeared a while ago. It was treated topically. Once with biobandage, once with PP two weeks later. Neither seemed to help, if anything it made it worse..That first one on her pectoral looked more fuzzy like. The second one appeared on her dorsal and looked pinkish, but it went away in like 2 days, and was not treated topically..The first fuzzy one is still there. Then about a day ago it seemed like a weird section of whitish film developed on one of her cheeks..thin and faint but there. .Malibu never appeared to have anything other than some floatiness... Their tanks have been maintainted SO well.. no water change slacking at ALL.. sooo I tried 0.1% salt in there as well due to the white pimples. (Again both these tanks have been seeded from the original BAD BACTERIA filled filter, so it is very possible it's all the same thing)

Although the salt seems to be helping in Sam/Mirandas tank, the 0.1% salt in Kahlua/Malibu's tank has seemed to have negative effects on them, (even though they had 0.3% salt for a month during QT with no problems so they should not be salt intolerant) Kahlua started acting... weird... Now the thing is, I was barely home Sunday or today which sucks because I feel like I haven't been watching them as closely as I normally would have.. But Kahlua just seemed to lay around a bit yesterday and she NEVER lays.. I fasted them yesterday, and tonight when it came time to feed, Malibu was totally unresponsive. Her eyes look popped, her cheeks look puffy/bloated.. No pineconing I don't think...

ANYWAY, I know the drill... Seperated the two fish. I did a 100% change on the tank, removed all aquarium salt. (Small amount I know but maybe it pushed her over the edge bloat wise? Who knows). And replaced that with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons epsom. Tried the MM's.. She doesn't want to eat. Tried putting a pellet in her mouth. Wouldn't eat. Spit it out. The only success I had was if I held her gently towards the bottom of the tank, and let her try to eat them herself. She tried but she spit it back out a lot but I think she got some in... I hope so anyway. Malibu is more comfortable with me than any of my other fish, so she responds well to being handled. (She is a finger nibbler, and is the one who I can move with my hands with no squirming). So she seemed more relaxed with me holding her in place at the bottom of the tank, as opposed to lifting her mouth above the water line to feed.. Heater in tank, set to 78... Have Maracyn II on hand... I feel like I have seen threads where the Maracyn II is only recommened after the MM's are tried..so I have not added them yet. I just don't want to add them tonight because I just added the epsom AND tried the MM"s so I want to see if either of those change anything, otherwise we won't know what helped... Also I know certain meds don't work in certain water (high PH) so I thought I would post before adding anything to the water. I do have them and can start them if needed 2 morrow, or if things get worse and there is no response)

Anyway, rather than stress out MALIBU, I actually QTed Kahlua who other than a white spot is more normal today. I have her in a 18 gallon rubbermaid with an long air stone and a filter with zeolite.. I can actually PP an extra 10 gallon and get her set up in there tomorrow with a cycled media baggie.. It was just easier to pull out the old rubbermaid tonight. It's funny, I came home from work and almost went straight to bed, but I ended up forgetting something downstairs and that's when I checked on them. So it's really good I went down. However I am exhausted!!! I wanted to be in bed hours ago but had to do all this..Anyway here's "box of questions".

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Malibu looked so bad that I saved water in the bucket to be tested, and did the water change ASAP instead of testing first... I just wanted to get the aquarium salt out and epsom in. I tested the bucket after both fish were situated. Kahlua was probably in there about 45 mins, Malibu about 15. There is a teeny hint of ammonia. I am assuming just from the time spent in the bucket. So ammonia in the bucket (which was tank water) is less than 0.25ppm (seriously looks like 0.10), 0 nitrite, 20 nitrate, Ph=8.1. ) So I will just give tank readings as of Friday before the last water change, which was 100%.

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 20

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.6 usually, KH 214.8 (12 drops), GH 322.2 (18 drops) Did those two yesterday.

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 74

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10 gallons, since mid July 2008

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? two filters. One Aquaclear hang on back 100gph, one Whisper internal 90gph. Forget model numbers. I can look 2 morrow if needed.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 80% every 5-7 days, 100% monthly.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? two orandas, about 3 inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, 0.1% aquarium salt as of 2 days ago, which has now been removed and replaced with epsom.

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Once a day.. Variety. Pro Gold, Krill, Jumpstart, Bloodworms, Spirulina Flakes, Red Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Peas, Oranges, recently tried Kiwi for first time on Friday.. So thats the only food that is "new"..

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? no-- but they have been treated with 0.3% salt for two weeks, and prazi for 30 days.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? yes see above paragraph.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? yes see above paragraph

I want to say she appears to be perkier since the epsom was added a few hours ago, and she tried the MM's, and I believe her cheeks have gone down a BIT.. Or maybe I am just hopeful?

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Hey Sue - I'm going to have to post back again later as I have to run now, but just wanted to ask if you have treated you tanks for flukes?

Sorry to sound like a broken record - this seems to be the only question I ask anyone lately! But, flukes are often and underlying cause for fish relapsing/going down with back infections. Finrot in a well kept tank and food-spitting could be indications.

Columnaris has quite a few different strains, each one responding to specific antibiotics. Let me think about meds when I am not rushing - also Trinket (if we can scare her up) has precision skill in this department.

Back later..............

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Thanks Pix! : )

Yep.. the tanks/ALL fish were treated with Prazi for 30 days. I did 3 days on, 2 days off.. This morning she is not behaving like herself, but she looks more like herself.. Her cheeks were just sooo bloated, and the swelling in her face (and now I believe body) has definately gone down some with the epsom. However, she still doesn't want to eat.. She still allows me to guide her in the direction of the food, and occasionally some will get into her mouth, and sometimes she will even hold it there for a bit to the point I think she is eating it, but then it comes back out.. She seems to be a bit more responsive this morning, but she isn't even close to being her old self... My poor baby, I am soo worried about her.. And of course she is secretly my favorite...

Yeah hopefully Imo will stop in at some point. She's been there through ALL my fish problems, so maybe she has some ideas... For now, I am not going to change anything. I'll give it til I get home from work tonight before I add any type of water med. Since she seems to be improving at least slightly.. I hope thats the right call...

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Oh Sue...I am sooo sorry for Malibu...Ughhh...I know how you feel lately with all the fishie problems you have bee facing...sigh...but you are doing really good...I will pray for all your babies... :hug ..Malibu will get better...try soaking the pellets for quite sometime so that they are really soft...it goes right inside their tummy...tried it with Sunshine...chewing becoms a bit difficult at times like these...so its easy on the fish...hope she eats...I ll check on you once I reach work..keep us posted...

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::: patpatpat :::

Sue, you are a saint to deal with all this crazy.

Just keep telling yourself, "Think how boring fish would be if they stayed *healthy* all the time!"

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I don't think she is going to make it.. This morning it looked promising.. She was a bit perkier with me, and I thought she ate some food.. But I called Shane on my break and he said she was floating on her back at the bottom, gasping and barely moving. He said he tried to give her a pellet and it just comes back out.. even soaked. He added maracyn II for me. I just got home. She is alive, but I mean.. barely.. She is completely upside down, her face looks swollen again.. And the worst part, and this is how i know she isn't going to make it, blood in her eyes..It's possible she is bloating up with blood.. Oh god, I don't want her to die.. I love all my babies, but she is my fave..

I bought the gel tek food pixie recommended on another thread. Ulta Cure Px or something, that has metro, prazi and something else.. I can't think right now..I gave it a shot, since she won't eat the pellets. At least you know that goes in. I would think.. but.. I really think it's too late. I can't believe she got sick so fast. I can't figure out why things keep going wrong!!

I'm so sad... :cry1

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Thanks all you guys.... It's just so heartbreaking, and the worst is wondering why.. I am racking my brain for possible causes to all of this.. I am hoping Samantha is okay, she has been fighting infections for months.. so I am hoping she is a fighter.. As of now she is still behaving normal.

But Malibu.. god she just went downhill sooooooo fast... She tries to wiggle and turn herself over, but she cant.. She didn't move all day for Shane. But when I talked to her, I can't even say it - it's making me cry -- she wiggled and flipped herself over for a second.. She's looking at me with her little eyes, and seeing them with blood.. Ohhh thats soo hard... Part of me thinks I should put her out of her pain, because clearly she has to be hurting.. And then part of me just thinks, no I can't. I have to HOPE she gets better.. I don't even think I have it in me to put her to sleep... And the thing is.. to me.. if she is wiggling. if she is trying to flipover, that means while her chances are slim, SHE wants to fight it..

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Oh no Sue...I really cannot understand how did this happen to Malibu... :cry1 ...she ll fight..wait up for sometime...ohhhh...I just hope she eats the MMs...praying hard for Sam and Malibu...I really really hope both get better... :please

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Ugh I don't know if I made the right call.. I found two posts from Imo, and they seem to be contradictory:

Maracyn 2 works on gram neg anaerobic aeromonas/pseudonomas infections best. If there is redness, bleeding it works well.

so there I am thinking "okay bleeding, good choice"

I think you need some antibiotics in the water since hes not eating but not Maracyn 2 which is not good with bleeding

and here I am thinking "oh no!!! bleeding! Bad choice!"

Imo??

Also found this:

Maracyn 2 is light sensitive that is correct and it is not as effective in high pH, over 7.6- what is yours now?

And MY Ph is 8.2.. now it doesn't say lethal, just not as effective.. but still.. bad

Now, Before Triple Sulfa was recommened for Samantha when SHE had septicemia... It seemed to help, but maybe wasn't given long enough so the red streaks are retunring... And it DID help with the bleeding... And is good in a high PH. So it may be that it would have been a better choice here... BUt now Maracyn II is already in the tank so I am assuming too late to change..? Unfortunately I was not home, and that is the one I heard recommended most for dropsy so I told Shane to add it... Now I want to kick myself.

And now, I looked at MIRANDA and I I found a white pimple...

So just to be clear:

Miranda & Samantha are together.. BOTH have red streaks (found them for sure on Miranda now and Sams are waaaay worse again).. Treated before with Triple Sulfa and MetroMeds... both courses complete... BOTH have white pimples!!! Samantha HAD white mouth strings before, and had fallen off scales before and bleeding/blood spots.. (which went away with Triple Sulfa). Both swimming nicely, but white spots/red streaks are not good, and are getting worse for SURE and I may be imagining white in their mouths but not dangling OUT.. NO meds currently.... I'm thinking I need to do Triple Sulfa again.. We thought it was all gone, but I am thinking it's not.. There was definate improvement with that, but now things are worse again. Maybe 4 days was not enough.... ?

Malibu: Alone now. Bad Pop Eye - got worse again. Huge bloated cheeks, fin rot, blood in eyes... heavy breathing. Flipped over, upside down.. Maracyn II in tank.Tried Metromeds but won't eat. Force fed some ultra cure PX... But now I am freaking out cause I saw this from Pixie in another current pop eye thread:

But if you wanted to try something easier to get hold of (but not as strong) you could try the Gel-Tek food I mentioned. Not bad, as it can knock out any internals, and then you could continue with the MM's when you get them. Do not continue Mar2 in this event.

Oh no! is that food not compatible with Maracyn 2??

Kahlua: Was with Malibu. White pimples.. One went away one did not.. No meds now.

Ph in all tanks is 8.2... aamonia in all tanks 0..water changes VERY CONSISTANT!!! Minimum 80% once a week...

This has GOT to be all related to the original freakin filter yes??? I mean.. it's the only logical explanation I can think of for all these problems!!!! It kills me because all along I wanted to get them into tanks with NO old media present.. BUT, the baggies were not completely cycled yet, and they were all doing so well that I thought it was best to leave them be rather than put them in uncycled tanks.. Now I am thinking that if I had just gotten them out earlier... I can't lose all my orandas, and I just can't imagine losing Malibu........

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I had Maracyn II in the tank when Chester was bleeding out the gills and tail, and he clotted right up, so at the very least imo I'd guess that it won't *hurt* if your fish is bleeding.

::: HUGS :::

I'm sorry it's all sucking.

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Oh, Sue! I am so sad for you. I was gone all day yesterday so I missed this. I really don't understand how this stuff happens so fast. It is nothing short of heartbreaking. You have worked so hard with your fish. The thing to keep in mind is that it isn't something that you are or are not doing, it is just the way these things happen sometimes. And you don't really know what things they may have been harboring when you first got them. And I really do believe that fish can have hidden diseases that are untreatable the same way humans have (cancer, heart attacks, ect.) They can't tell us how they feel so we don't know until the symptoms show the only way they can. That is why dropsy is so scary. Nobody has a clear idea of what exactly causes it most of the time...just suddenly something goes wrong. We are all here for you and thinking of you and your sweet fish.

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She's gone..I knew she would be but I still had this tiny little hope... Her belly feels really mushy.. I'm so sad..

Imo or Pix... if you guys get to this thread, I would still like it if you could answer some of the q's about the meds, etc. Even though she is gone, I am wondering if what I did was right/wrong, and also just info for the future. Mainly these questions:

1) Maracyn II and bleeding, which statement is correct?

2) Maracyn II and high PH. Was it harmful or just not effective?

3)Was it okay Gel Tek along with the Maracyn II... given Pixie's comment?

4) Would Triple Sulfa have been a better choice for me, or is there even another med that would have been a better choice for me given the high PH..

5)Gel tek the right choice since she wouldn't eat the MM's, or was there a better option there.. I know they have Gel Tek Penicillin, Ampicillin, Tetracycline.. Stuff like that.

6) The only things different I can think of were I added 0.1% salt on Sat night, Fed her Kiwi for the first time on Sat. I found her sick Mon night.. Could either of these things be the culprit?? She had been floating more and more lately, and become less and less active. Was it just her time, or did the 0.1% salt sent her over the edge?

I know she's gone.. And I know it won't bring her back. But if I can learn from this maybe it will help my fish or someone elses fish in the future..

i haven't really cried yet. I can't.. it makes it real.. I found her this morning around 9am, and I just went back to bed, I couldn't take it.. I know it sounds dramatic, but I mean I just love these guys soo much.. I had dreams about her, trying to save her and stuff, and then when I woke up it hit me again that she's gone.. This all happened sooooo fast...

BUt, I have to focus on the remaining fish... Telescopes are knock on wood, fine.. Kharma & Kismet are in their own tank that never touched bacteria from that filter, and they were from Ken so they should be as disease free as you can get. They are doing well.. Angel is in her own tank that I do believe was seeded from that original filter. BUT, other than one battle with flukes, she is doing well..

So the orandas are the issue.. Right now they are all behaving normally. Samantha & Miranda are in their tank. Kahlua is in the rubbermaid.. Any suggestions?

A few posts ago I listed their treatment history and current conditions. To add to that, I will say. Samantha's main spot is on her doral. It appears to be going down with the salt. BUT she has one or two white patches that aren't changing, and again, still the streaking still worse at times. Last night it was bad, and she was not handled or anything.. The spot on the doral still in my opinion looked more like a fungus. No pink. Miranda's spot is very faint..and red streaks appear to be starting up again Hard to get a good look.. Then Kahlua just has that one spot on her pectoral fin but did have one spot on her dorsal that WAS pinkish white.

For now, I am PPing everything. This was long overdue, but like I said, I had wanted to make sure the filter baggies were fully cycled before doing so. At this point, they are (totally cycled about 2 days ago woo hoo, and because the baggies in Kharma & Kismets tank came from the same place, their tank is now 100% fully cycled as well. Whew).. So I am pping everything, and setting up all fish with brand new cycled filter media... Maybe this will be enough... who knows.. I wondered about trying Triple Sulfa again, but won;t do anything just yet..

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Oh noooo Sue... :cry1 ..I am so so sorry..I cant believe Malibu is gone...ohhh...just to let u know..I am around...I am sorry Sue...I totally understand how u feel... :heart

:rip: Malibu...you will be missed...swim free baby... :heart

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Oh my goodness - I'm so sorry.

Just trying to collect my thought here......There is obviously an underlying problem that we have not managed to identify so far. Despite treatments and excellent water management, the infection seems to recur. I wonder if the root cause could be viral or even parasitic. (I am doing some research into this for you but don't have everything at my finger tips just yet.) It could also be the case that there are several bacterial infections at work. Sometimes meds will do enough for the fish to rally but not actually erradicate the infection altogether; after time, symptoms begin to reassert themselves.

OK Mailbu, first. I notice that so far your treatments have been targeted for gram-negative bacteria in line with columnaris and septicaemia. However, pop-eye can sometimes be caused by a gram-postive bacteria affecting the kidney. This may explain why there was such a bad reaction to salting. When infections are internal, food or injections are the direct route to treating as water borne meds just don't get inside strongly enough. However, the fish cannot eat, so unless you can find a vet to inject you are left with the option to use Erythomycin (gram pos) which is the ingredient in Marcyn - it can be run alongside Mar2 which you have already. I fear it is too late for poor Malibu, however, as it does sound as if she is in organ failure :cry1

QUOTE

"But if you wanted to try something easier to get hold of (but not as strong) you could try the Gel-Tek food I mentioned. Not bad, as it can knock out any internals, and then you could continue with the MM's when you get them. Do not continue Mar2 in this event."

Oh no! is that food not compatible with Maracyn 2??

Don't worry - it is Medigold and Maracyn/s which are incompatible; in the other poster's case, I was just trying to avoid too many meds.

I really hope that Trinket will be able to stop by with advice for the others and their symptoms - she has a far more in depth knowledge than I do and is very familiar with your history.

I'll try to check in again later.

Oh no! I've been typing and trying to do other things and I've completely missed your update - I am so sorry she's gone.

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Oh, I am so sorry, Sue! It happened so fast that you didn't really have time to prepare yourself. :cry1 RIP sweet Malibu.

This is a total left field thought, but I know someone on here once mentioned their fish dying within a few days of eating her first meal of bloodworms. Is it possible that fish have food allergies the way people do? If so, then the kiwi could have been the culprit, but there is no way you could have known that.

Feel free to PM me...I know how sad you are. And I'm sad for you.

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Awww Sue, I am so very sorry. I know how hard you and she tried. I honestly don't know what you could have tried differently. Hopefully the mods will have at least some of the answers to your questions. I'm especially interested in the Maracyn II and high PH question as my PH runs 8.0 - 8.2 consistently. If high PH knocks it's effectiveness, then it could explain why it did not do anything for Nip even after two courses of it. And if actually harmful, did I contribute to his death in my effort to help? Lord, sometimes a lot can be said for pet rocks rather than actual living things, sigh.

Hang in there kiddo! And consider yourself hugged from here in Mercer, Pa. :hug

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Oh sweetie, I'm so sorry!

:k055:

She sounds like she was such a strong, wonderful fish -- at least she's not hurting anymore, and while she was alive she had someone fantastic like you as an owner.

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Until Trinket is back, it may be helpful to phone the National Fish Pharmacy for med advice. 520-298-7814. They have quite a sophisticated team of pharmacists who may be able to help. Give a concise history of all symptoms and treatments to date.

Whatever is going on, it is a very tenacious bacterial infection which may have hidden root causes.

Q's

1) Maracyn II and bleeding, which statement is correct? Not certain.

2) Maracyn II and high PH. Was it harmful or just not effective? Just ineffective - it is easily absorbed by calcium, so a GH over 200 would render it useless. Minocycline can however become toxic past it's sell-by date so always check for expiration. I have also read that it can be a bad choice for dropsy as it is capable of causing kidney damage. Trinket can confirm.

3)Was it okay Gel Tek along with the Maracyn II... given Pixie's comment? Wouldn't have been harmful

4) Would Triple Sulfa have been a better choice for me, or is there even another med that would have been a better choice for me given the high PH.. Here is where I am a little uncertain. If Columnaris is the primary problem, it is important to catch it early; as Flexibacter advances it attacks the internal organs making for a much more difficult treatment. Sulfa drugs can be good if used early; they are bacteriostatic, meaning they inhibit the growth of the bacteria but do not kill them. But it sounds as if your fish have been carrying this infection for a while. I have read that Kanamycin is about the only antibiotic that will work at this point. It is easily absorbed through the skin and works well in a high PH. Nirofurazone and Kanamycin used together are said to be very effective in more advanced cases of Columnaris. They create a sort of 'turbo-charged' antibiotic effect. The only danger is that whilst K is absorbed quickly by the kidneys (which makes it effective for treatment of Kidney infection) it also tends toward the destruction of the kidneys with over use. This is why we often recommend against Medigold (which contains it) when treating Dropsy - the kidneys are already damaged/compromised. I would really like to hear from Trinket before recommending anything as I am uncertain if this is just Columnaris or something else in addition.

5)Gel tek the right choice since she wouldn't eat the MM's, or was there a better option there.. I know they have Gel Tek Penicillin, Ampicillin, Tetracycline.. Stuff like that. Once a fish won't eat, nothing oral is of any help. The Gel-Tek I suggested for the other poster was to rule out the presence of any internal parasites. Flubenol deals with nematodes, Prazi with flukes and tapes, and Metro with certain bac and protozoan infections.

6) The only things different I can think of were I added 0.1% salt on Sat night, Fed her Kiwi for the first time on Sat. I found her sick Mon night.. Could either of these things be the culprit?? She had been floating more and more lately, and become less and less active. Was it just her time, or did the 0.1% salt sent her over the edge? None of these things were the culprit. Her illness sounds like the result of a chronic infection which has been at large for some time. Don't agonize thinking that one little thing you might have done has killed her.

This is really just a thinking out loud post just for information. I hope that NFP or Trinket may have a more definitive answer for you.

Sorry again for loosing her :cry1

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Sue~ :cry1

I am SO SO sorry :cry1 I can't believe all this happened while I was away the weekend Sue and I am totally guilty of not checking your thread because I had gotten use to having PMs from you if there was any trouble :cry1 I just read it now...Pixiefish has been so helpful and its likely you did all you could hun. Please don't beat yourself up with this and please forgive me for the contradictory posts I must have made about Maracyn 2. Maracyn 2 is NOT the best choice for bleeding and redness is fact or in a high pH as Pixie details. Minocycline is a synthetic tetracyline but all tetracylines can cause anemia as they tend to cause leaking out of pottasium ions important for maintaining adequate hemaglobin count. All tetracylines should be avoided in cases of heavy bleeding or suspected anemia (pale gills).

Besides if this is flex/columnaris the culprit bacteria will be aerobic and Mar 2 works best on anaerobic bacteria (pseudo and aeromonas)..

She's gone..I knew she would be but I still had this tiny little hope... Her belly feels really mushy.. I'm so sad..

Imo or Pix... if you guys get to this thread, I would still like it if you could answer some of the q's about the meds, etc. Even though she is gone, I am wondering if what I did was right/wrong, and also just info for the future. Mainly these questions:

1) Maracyn II and bleeding, which statement is correct? See above.

2) Maracyn II and high PH. Was it harmful or just not effective? Not harmful, just ineffective

3)Was it okay Gel Tek along with the Maracyn II... given Pixie's comment? Ultra PX is for parasites. BX is for bacteria, I think you had bacterial infection here not parasites

4) Would Triple Sulfa have been a better choice for me, or is there even another med that would have been a better choice for me given the high PH..maybe t.sulfa would have been better but without precise antibiotic sensitivity testing we are all jumping in the dark here

5)Gel tek the right choice since she wouldn't eat the MM's, or was there a better option there.. I know they have Gel Tek Penicillin, Ampicillin, Tetracycline.. Stuff like that. Again, antibiotics are bacteria specific it is so often a wild guess..

6) The only things different I can think of were I added 0.1% salt on Sat night, Fed her Kiwi for the first time on Sat. I found her sick Mon night.. Could either of these things be the culprit?? She had been floating more and more lately, and become less and less active. Was it just her time, or did the 0.1% salt sent her over the edge?

Salt should not really be used with Mar 2 because it increases calcium content/ raises gH) which makes tetracyline/minocyline more potent.

I'm going to read through your posts in detail and try and give you some more specific diagnosis Sue. Wait up.

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