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Pop Eye!


Nomi

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I think little Gilbert has pop eye! I have no way to take a picture right now, but it looks exactly like this: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/2002/popeye.jpeg

Now, I'm afraid to say I've been neglecting my fish due to the pressures of school and living on my own (I've been a bad fish mommy!), meaning that I've missed the ocasional daily water change (cycling) and haven't been testing the water as often as I should have. *headdesk*. And now my little Gilbert is paying for it! I tested the water, the ammonia level was at 0.2 ppm ( :o !!!) and I immediatly did a very large water change.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

0.2 (bad fish mommy, bad!)

[*]Nitrite Level?

Well under 0.3, close to zero.

[*]Nitrate level?

Couldn't test due to a blockage in one of the regent container things. >_< (all these bad things happen at once, don't they?)

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

Will have test result soon as possible.

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

Again, results asap.

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

Hagen, drops.

[*]Water temperature?

70 degrees

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

12 gallons (biggest I was allowed to have, 20+ gallon in eight months).

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

The filter that comes with the eclipse 12 gallon tank

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

Every day (except for a few missed days) and about 30 %.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

Two, one just under 3 inches, the other a little over an inch.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Prime.

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Once a day, Hikari goldfish gold pellets.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

Nope.

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

Nope.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

POP EYE!!!! AHHHHH!

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

No, Gilbert is swimming, eating and acting very good.

What do I do!? I'm 6 hours from the closest fish store and medication will have to be shipped, and I do not know how long it will take. So far I've just done a big water change with prime. Please help!

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Nomi am sorry this happened...I can understand the pressures of school...

If you are really sure it is pop-eye....and I mean it..really sure..only then do the following..

Gilbert will definitely need a hospital tank..say a 10 gallon tub with a good sized filter..at least 40-50 gph if not 100gph..what you need is Epsom salts...you can get it at Wal-green, Longs-Drugs etc...usually 3-4 bucks...

set up a tank with a filter..prime, temperature and pH matched water like the main tank...transfer Gilbert carefully...add 1/4th teaspoon of epsom salts per 10 gallons...make sure to dissolve salt in a container and then add it to the main tank..gradually increase the temperature..should be max 80 degree F...and since the tank isn't cycled..daily water changes..I am sorry but this is necessary...Dont feed him for a day...but after that you will need medicated food...Metromeds..

and Ophie should not get the epsom salts...so a separate setup is very essential...ask questions if any...I ll post this and some more in a minute...

Also in the meantime you can order Metromeds, medicated food from goldfishconnection.com...you can get a 2 day shipping or even overnight, if you can afford it..again I know the pressures of being in school...Also, the filter that comes with the 12 gallon is not enuf...so maybe order a 100gph filter online...and you always knew you are overstocked...and I also know you plan on a bigger setup..so maybe extra filtration can help in the meantime...

Edited by SunshineGurl
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Sorry to hear about your fish. Do you have any aquarium salt on hand? Since it may be a while before you're able to get your hands on some medication, adding salt may help a bit in the meantime. My fish got pop eye and I was recommended to salt to 0.2% (1 tsp. of salt per gallon), raise the temperature, keep an eye on water params, and feed a medicated food. My fish's eye unfortunately never got better (there were other problems as well... but he's still alive...) and today I just read how pop eye isn't usually curable (some Animal Planet book about goldfish at the pet store)... Keeping my fingers crossed for Gilbert's recovery! Be sure to keep up those water changes! :)

Some help I got when my fish got pop eye:

The pop-eye and fluid behind the eye is more serious. It's really important you check your nitrites and ammonia have not had a sudden bump as these are known triggers for fluid build up and infection both viral and bacterial. Unfortunately fluid build up behind the eye is extremely difficult to treat -it is an area protected and closed off to normal vascular supply. Salting to 0.2% may help relieve osmotic pressure. Most important is to remove all stressors and feed the fish good quality variety of foods to build up its own natural ability to eliminate fluids and cope with stressors.

There are very few proven drugs that can eliminate fluids from behind the eye. Epsom salts will work on body fluids but not behind the eye. Don't use any medication containing formalin as this will aggravate the condition. You can try waterborn antibiotics again if you like but as you discovered they will not work on fluid build up. I think the best chance you have to clear the cloudy eye and assist your fish in dealing with the fluid retention is with sustained perfect water, a good medicated food, salting to 0.2% and very slowly (1 degree an hour) bring up the temperature in the tank to 80 or 82 degrees.

Edited by comet182
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>_< I've gotten into quite the mess here, haven't I? I'm not sure if it is pop eye at all, all I know is it looks almost exactly like the picture.

I can get a 10 gallon container easy, but for everything else, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I have no way other than ordering/shipping to get a filter or epsom salts (6 hour drive to Whitehorse, and even then I do not know if I could get a good filter there), and for these things I will have to rely on my parents (being a poor art student), who may not want to spend any more money on me (they very kindly picked up my rent bills so I didn't have to get a job). I do have an air stone, but that is nowhere near a filter.

And I just remembered I have no way of getting a package or mail yet. >_<

Gah! Thank you very much for the help, I should have more info once I email my parents.

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Sorry to hear about your fish. Do you have any aquarium salt on hand? Since it may be a while before you're able to get your hands on some medication, adding salt may help a bit in the meantime. My fish got pop eye and I was recommended to salt to 0.2% (1 tsp. of salt per gallon), raise the temperature, keep an eye on water params, and feed a medicated food. My fish's eye unfortunately never got better (there were other problems as well... but he's still alive...) and today I just read how pop eye isn't usually curable (some Animal Planet book about goldfish at the pet store)... Keeping my fingers crossed for Gilbert's recovery! Be sure to keep up those water changes! :)

Some help I got when my fish got pop eye:

The pop-eye and fluid behind the eye is more serious. It's really important you check your nitrites and ammonia have not had a sudden bump as these are known triggers for fluid build up and infection both viral and bacterial. Unfortunately fluid build up behind the eye is extremely difficult to treat -it is an area protected and closed off to normal vascular supply. Salting to 0.2% may help relieve osmotic pressure. Most important is to remove all stressors and feed the fish good quality variety of foods to build up its own natural ability to eliminate fluids and cope with stressors.

There are very few proven drugs that can eliminate fluids from behind the eye. Epsom salts will work on body fluids but not behind the eye. Don't use any medication containing formalin as this will aggravate the condition. You can try waterborn antibiotics again if you like but as you discovered they will not work on fluid build up. I think the best chance you have to clear the cloudy eye and assist your fish in dealing with the fluid retention is with sustained perfect water, a good medicated food, salting to 0.2% and very slowly (1 degree an hour) bring up the temperature in the tank to 80 or 82 degrees.

I do have salt, and will salt immediately. As for raising the temperature, I do have a heater I couldn't add until I got one of those things that adds how many plugs you have(I'm forgeting the word). I do now, and I will get that set up as soon as possible. Medicated food I can probably afford and get as soon as I get my mail set up.

Thank you very much for the info! I will be more on top of water changes, I'll put a reminder on my door.

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It does seems like a lot of salt. I was like whoa! when I salted my tank.

Since you're not sure it is popeye... can you tell if the eye is bulging?

Dissolve the salt in some of the tank water before adding.

Salting info:

There's a link here to take you through salting, scroll down for directions.

Make sure you use the right salt (no anticaking agents or YPS) Pickling salt is cheapest and dissolves easier, rock, kosher, sea are fine too.

Start now with one level teaspoon per gallon of tank water which will take you to an immediate 0.1%. Make sure it is dissolved very well before adding. It should look like a shimmery cloud as it goes in. No particles of salt should be seen.

Repeat the dosage tomorrow or 12 hours later to get you to 0.2%. You will need to add back salt you took out at water changes..and those w/cs are very important. 50% water change? Add back 1 teaspoon per gallon (0.1%) back etc.

Try and add the salt to a well aerated area of the tank so it disperses most evenly and quickly.

Edited by comet182
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Oh dear. I did salt %0.1 for now, but the salt I'm using looks like small rocks, though it is indeed aquarium salt. I also notice that it said not to add unless I'm showing zero ammonia, and even though I did a large water change (%60-70) I'm still worried about that.

Should I return to doing %30 water changes or should I do %50 water changes for a while?

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Nomi..please dont salt..ur tank is not cycled..besides Ophie does not need salts..salt will cause the bbs that have grown until now to die..hold on dont salt...make sure...what u are doing..u will shock the fish..

the water parameters need to be stable..please dont salt yet...

EDIT: Oh ok..u salted already..did u dissolve the salt in some container first??I wouldn't have recommended salting the main tank...

Edited by SunshineGurl
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u shud always dissolve salt in a different container with tank water..only then add..the goldies try to eat the salt grains..and tht is bad for their health...I would recommend an 80% water change if you are not sure of what just happened...seriously a huge water change is what I would do..its better than stressing out the fish...although I know 0.1% salt is not harmful..but I wouldnt use it if its not needed...and in ur case the main tank and Ophie dont need salts..neither does Gilbert..he needs epsom if he has popeye....do the fluid rings around his eyes new??..or is tht something he looks like...if there is a change and if the rings look like the picture u referred to then yes it cud be popeye..and u need epsom for tht...like I explained before..

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Thank you. I just did a large (%70-80) water change this morning. Today the fluid sacs seem to have receded, or have become less pronounced. Has this happened to anyone else? I'm assuming Gilbert still has pop eye (or whatever it was) but is this a good sign or a bad sign? I will continue to watch very closely.

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Sometimes when you catch it early and add heat to the water and salt it will go down....If it has I would keep the temp up do your water changes hun.....Add when you can get some Epsom salt this will help .....wish you werent in Canada, I could send you some MetroMeds...Just got some :(

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Thanks, I will raise the temp. It's best to raise the temp slowly, right? And my tank is not fully cycled yet, is it still ok to salt at a %0.1 to 0.2 level, if I dissolve the salt in some tank water first? Or should I avoid the salt?

What I can do is contact my aunt in whitehorse to see what sort of meds the pet stores there have, hopefully they have some medicated food. It is much cheaper to send something from whitehorse than Edmonton.

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The higher temps might cause problems with ammonia and nitrites in an uncycled tank but with water changes this will keep it down....Now salt actually helps with nitrites it keeps them some wait safe for the fish....Epsom salt Im not sure if it will help with an uncycled tank but it does help keep the swelling down with popeye and dropsy.

Slowly move the tank temp up to 80 by moving the temp 2 degrees once a day, this way it doesnt stress them out :)

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Thank you! I will continue salting at a low level for now, and I'll continue the water changes. I'll be watching him closely, and Ophie as well. I'll keep an eye out for epsom salt, even if I might end up not being able to use it.

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In telescopes as well you should be able to see a distinct ring around the eye...I haven't had a telescope but I would assume the ring to be very much visible..you cant miss out on it...cos the face totally looks a bit swollen becos of those eyes...at least thts wat I think..it did not take me even 2 seconds to see what was happening when my oranda got popeye..

Also popeye results in dropsy..pop eye are the first signs to dropsy...so if not treated the fish starts to pine cone...this will not take a long time..really a day or two if not treated...This is how my oranda looked like..

http://picasaweb.google.com/jyoti411/SunshinePopeye#

Edited by SunshineGurl
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I can't see anything on my telescope, though sometimes I think I see a ring and otherwise, nothing (I think I'm just being paranoid). The swelling on my pearlscale is not as pronounced as on your oranda, and seems to have gone down. I haven't seen any pineconing yet. I'll keep a close watch.

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Gilbert's swelling around his eye has gone down, but now he has horrible, red splotches around his left eye! What is this? I will get pictures as soon as I find my camera.

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Sorry for the delay, school has been nuts. I have found my camera. but now my cord-thing is missing. I did take a few pictures though. >_<

Gilbert has since recovered completely, no pop eye, no red blotches, and acting (and eating) completely fine. Now I'm not as worried anymore, more baffled than anything else.

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