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Ketchup Is Lumpy


Guest kafine

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I regret that I am unable to give answers for the first column; all I can say is looking at the test strip nothing looks too off.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 1/3, every week- 2 weeks (I know, I should stop forgetting)

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, about 9cm.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? lightly salted

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Once a day- two days, Tetrafin flakes. Peas occasionally.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

No, although my brother has two fish in an extremely dirty bowl and has been sharing my fish paraphenalia without asking. I strongly suspect these fish to be the source of any new contaminant, since my fish have been healthy and clean with no problems for two years.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish?

He has had two lumps come up and go away, and he had a little dark spot on his side which is going red. He also this morning has two pale little white spots on the points of his tail. Other fish has no symptoms.

When the lump on his left side was up it seemed uncomfortable; he didn't want to bend left.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? He is eating okay, and he is perky when he is awake, but he has been sleeping a lot. And I have seen him sleeping resting on the bottom, which is unusual for him. He is a little less responsive. Seems to be feeling under the weather.

The tank caught some algae from my brother's fish a few weeks ago (I do wish he would buy his own stuff) which has been successfully cleared.

I used to come on this forum a couple of years ago, when my fish Hopscotch was lumpy. It looks like it might be the same thing, so I am concerned because Hopscotch died of that. :( Except I never saw any dark spots on Hopscotch, so may be something else.

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I'm thinking that without knowing your water parameters, you can't really know what's going on or the source of what's going on (i.e., if it's parasites or bacterial). Plus, it's really difficult to treat for these if your water conditions aren't perfect.

Is there any way can get a drop test kit? (The strips are pretty inaccurate.)

A couple more questions:

Are you using any dechlorinator (like Prime or similar)?

How did you get rid of the algae problem (i.e., water treatment)?

How big is your tank and what sort of fish do you have?

How much salt do you have in the tank (i.e., how many tsp per gallon)? (You have to be careful when using salt to know exactly how much you've got in there.)

And any chance you could educate your brother a bit about fish in a bowl. Goldfish absolutely must live in a tank with a filter.

Hang in there, with a little bit more details of your setup, I'm sure the folks here will really be able to help Ketchup out! (Love the name, btw!)

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I've been trying to get him to look after those fish better, but he really doesn't seem bothered about them at all. It's so sad :( We actually have a little filter I bought for the bowl I kept Hopscotch in when she was ill, and I offered to GIVE it to him, but the wire won't reach the plughole so apparently that's a good excuse to leave them go brown!

I can't get hold of any other testing things right now. I will just have to be vigilant about keeping them clean for a while.

With the algae I just cleaned it off, changed 1/3 water twice in that week, cleaned out the filter, and bought a new pipe for cleaning their gravel to replace the contaminated one my brother was using (it began to go green D:). It went away quite quickly after that. It was only a minor setback, thankfully.

Before and since, the tank has been pretty balanced.

My tank is fileld to 10.5 gallons, with 1tsp of salt added with each 1/3 water change... I'm nto sure how much that means is in there, do you think that's too much?

I haven't added anything else to the water.

They are just regular orange goldfish. Ketchup is 5 years old.

He is called Ketchup because they wouldn't let me name him Chips :(

Edited by kafine
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So, first and foremost, I would concentrate on getting your water in pristine condition. You have two 'commons' in a 10 gallon tank. That's a set up for bad news. 1 common fish needs at least 20 gallons, so with 2, you're talking a 40 gallon tank. Commons can get very big and even when they're smaller, they're dirty, dirty fish. I suspect that your water parameters might not be in such great shape.

I would think you need to be doing very large water changes 8-9 gallons twice or three times a week, if not more. So yes, definitely be vigilant about the water until you get a drop test kit...but I would try to do so ASAP. (You also need to test your tap water to know what you're working with.)

As for salting, if you're changing as much water as you should be, you're basically throwing money down the drain. Trinket posted a really great How-To on salting: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876. I would follow these instructions.

If your fish does have a bacterial infection or parasites, being in bad water will only make the problem way worse. And, if it's bacterial, it can be caused by the stress of the environment. (Trust me on this one, I had a common in a 5 gallon tank for 4 years that suddenly got sick. I treated for everything under the sun. Then I got a drop test kit and realized my water was toxic...got that straightened out first, then tackled the bacterial infection and now I have a happy, healthy fish in a 29 gallon!)

Hang in there!

Edited by uberleslie
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I am aware of the fact that the tank/water situation is not ideal. I can only try and keep that clean, and I am doing so. So...

What about the fish's symptoms? What does it sound like to you?

(by the way, the tank is 12 gallons uk and 15 gallons us. I wasn't sure whether to give the capacity of the tank or how much water is actually in there).

Edited by kafine
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Sorry if you think I keep hammering on the water thing and ignoring the symptoms. And apologies if you're frustrated...I know having a sick fish and not knowing what's going can be very stressful.

I'm not experienced with diagnosis, so I'll refrain from wild guesses. But what I do know, is that the people who are here -- who are great and amazing and know tons of stuff and brought my fish back from death's door -- will need to know what's going on with your water to really and truly help out. Lumps, dark spots, white spots -- those can be a varity of things, it would seem to me. Plus, even if you had a diagnosis -- lots of meds require pristine water to really work and not cause further harm to your fish.

Trust me, I know where you are. I've been there. Sick fish, small tank...I treated for parasites and fungus per the fish store employee's rec (nearly killed him), and then realized his suffering was the product of the environment first and foremost.

Maybe your situation is different, and a parasite was introducted...

You said that you already lost 1 fish to similar symptoms. Honestly, if I were you, I would work on getting the tank/water situation more ideal.

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Uberleslie is very correct about emphasizing on the water and ignoring the symptoms for now...Great advice from her...Please bear with us as all of this is very important...

Pristine water conditions is the first step to treating a fish...I would even suggest a huge water change something like 80%...if your tank is 15 US gallons..then fill it completely...I did not understand why you have only 10.5 gallons in there...With bad water adding any medications or even salt sometimes has negative effects on the fish...so getting the water clean is very important..and we stress on this soo much now so that you can be prepared once a mod answers your question to add any medications....And in many cases pristine water solves more than half your problems...Since you are depending upon your instincts to keep the water clean and not using any test strips..as Uberleslie advices, bigger water changes and more frequently like every 2-3 days is the best thing at the moment....

And when you cleaned you filter...how did you clean it??...what about the filter pad??..I am asking this as the filter pad harbors beneficial bacteria which are very essential for your fish..cleaning them out can hurt the cycle of your tank...so let us know abt tht...

How about the filter??..What kind of filter is this??and what is its size...I ask this as you might need a bigger filter...goldfish need at least 10 times higher rated filter than the size of your tank..meaning for 15 gallons you would need 150gph filtration...

Please be on top of water changes at the moment..until someone more experienced answers your question....I would not suggest you adding any medications for now...hold on and concentrate on the water...also please do not let your brother share ur tank or anything for now...

Keep us posted.. :) ..hope things get better...and I cannot agree more with Leslie's suggestion of pristine water...its very important...

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I'm sorry, I don't mean to be frustrated with you, I know you are helping. I am under the weather too at the moment and unemployed and yeah... it's all a bit of a mess. It's daft but I can't help being a little annoyed at Ketchup for getting ill at a point where I am not equipped to help him out in any major way (and with Dave, for keeping his fish in slurry and then transferring goodness knows what to my already only precariously balanced tank).

It sucks that there's not really much I can do for him without throwing money at the problem. :(

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Do you have a big plastic bucket or anything like that, kafine? Something that's 30 gallons or so? If not, you might be able to afford one -- they are a *lot* cheaper, and you can get them at basically any big supermarket, and it would at least be a place for Ketchup to recuperate while you save for a bigger tank.

Edited by Minx
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I did not understand why you have only 10.5 gallons in there...

And when you cleaned you filter...how did you clean it??...what about the filter pad??..I am asking this as the filter pad harbors beneficial bacteria which are very essential for your fish..cleaning them out can hurt the cycle of your tank...so let us know abt tht...

How about the filter??..What kind of filter is this??and what is its size...I ask this as you might need a bigger filter...goldfish need at least 10 times higher rated filter than the size of your tank..meaning for 15 gallons you would need 150gph filtration...

I cannot fill the tank any higher because the filter will not sit any higher on the glass and the top needs to be out of the water. Also... the gallons thing is becoming confusing; it's filled 10.5 gallonsUK out of a possible 12 gallonsUK. Which is only 2 inches short of the top.

I don't really know much about the filter; it was five years ago and the box is long lost. It is what I was advised to get for the size of tank I have.

I cleaned out the workings, but I did not wring out the sponge, only lightly rinsed it to get the gunk off the side. That's the only time I have done anything with the sponge since the sponge was changed some time ago. I know it is supposed to be left to do it's thing.

You know what though... looking at this clunky thing, I wonder if it is time to upgrade the filter? I can't even find this model anywhere to show you. Maybe it is no longer performing as it should.

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I did not understand why you have only 10.5 gallons in there...

And when you cleaned you filter...how did you clean it??...what about the filter pad??..I am asking this as the filter pad harbors beneficial bacteria which are very essential for your fish..cleaning them out can hurt the cycle of your tank...so let us know abt tht...

How about the filter??..What kind of filter is this??and what is its size...I ask this as you might need a bigger filter...goldfish need at least 10 times higher rated filter than the size of your tank..meaning for 15 gallons you would need 150gph filtration...

I cannot fill the tank any higher because the filter will not sit any higher on the glass and the top needs to be out of the water. Also... the gallons thing is becoming confusing; it's filled 10.5 gallonsUK out of a possible 12 gallonsUK. Which is only 2 inches short of the top.

I don't really know much about the filter; it was five years ago and the box is long lost. It is what I was advised to get for the size of tank I have.

I cleaned out the workings, but I did not wring out the sponge, only lightly rinsed it to get the gunk off the side. That's the only time I have done anything with the sponge since the sponge was changed some time ago. I know it is supposed to be left to do it's thing.

You know what though... looking at this clunky thing, I wonder if it is time to upgrade the filter? I can't even find this model anywhere to show you. Maybe it is no longer performing as it should.

Ohh no no..I didnt mean that you are frustrated with us..All I wanted to say is that water conditions are very essential..I can understand that you are a bit too stressed abt the job and everything...I totally get it...I am so sorry for all this mess..calm down..things will get better.... :hug

got the gallons thing..dont worry too much about it..12 UK gallons = 14.41 US gallons and 10.5 UK gallons = 12.6 US gallons...

Good job not cleaning the sponge..but yeah I do agree on the upgrade..you might want to get a better filter..like I said 10 times more filtration than the capacity of your tank..and you have two commons in such a small tank..so it is even more essential...

Minx has a good advice too...we all have plastic rubbermaid tubs...very cheap around 6 US $ for around 20 gallons...you can set that up as a temporary home for the fish...actually having them in there for a longer time does not hurt..I do understand you are pre occupied with the job hunting and everything..do the best you can with water changes for now...and keep us posted.. :)

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Hiya! : ) :)

I know this is probably the last thing you want to hear right now (please don't kill me lol), but the water really is the main thing that needs to be focused on.. Many many MANY problems with fish can be traced back to the water quality.. Often, even if it is a bacteria, parasite, etc, a fish that is in the correct amount of water, with correct conditions is able to fight them, while a fish in less than perfect conditions can not.. Many bacteria and parasites are ALWAYS present in the tank.. But healthy fish have strong enough immune systems to fight them off.. Think of it like this. If you are on a plane and one of the passengers has a cold. Just because they have a cold and it is in the environment does not mean you will catch it. A person who is healthy and well taken care of has a strong enough immune system to fight the cold, and often can walk away with no problems. However, someone who isn't taking care of themselve when it comes to diet, and exercise, is weaker and more susceptable to the cold.. (I'm one of the later! LOL)

So, while you are wondering what is actually wrong with your fish, the first step really is sorting out the water.. One of the things suggested was a large bucket.. A rubbermaid will work very well. Two single tailed fish will not do well in a 10 gallon tank.. They really do need the 20 gallons each.. For now, you need to be doing large water changes as UberLeslie and Sunshinegirl suggested, probably every 2-3 days..

I understand the money problem, believe me I do. But a test kit is soo important right now. If you absolutely cannot get a drop test kit, can you please post the results from your strips? That would be better than nothing.

Also, it is very possible something was introduced by your brothers fish, sharing of the equipment.. I know it sounds mean, but do not let him borrow these things any more. It's a recipe for disaster.. If you can try to explain to him that fish can pass things to each other, and if HIS fish are sick, (even if you can't see it) it can get your fish sick.. It's best to keep seperate equipment for ALL your tanks. It is soo easy to pass things from one to another..

As for the salt, do you always keep this in the tanks? Salt should not be used as a constant thing in the tanks. If you keep the salt in at all times, it will become ineffective when you really need it.. When salt is used, you need to dissolve the salt, and keep a record of how much is going in there..

Right now, I believe you should actually do a full 100% water change.. We have no idea how much salt is in there, and right now I would like to start with perfect fresh water, no salt, no meds, temperature matched, and treated with a water conditioner. Then maintain the water with daily water changes.. (It's a lot of work, but without a proper test kit, it's really the only thing you can do..) If the fish does not improve with this, we can move onto something else, but the water has to be taken care of before we can consider other things.

I think it's really great that you are trying to get your brother to take better care of his fish.. It must be frustrating that he isn't listening though.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Guest kafine

Ketchup has taken a turn for the worse (yes... I have been keeping him clean...).

He has lost a couple of scales where he had a larger zit, and now I can see the skin underneath is... not pretty. These things are coming up out of the skin. I dread to think what he looks like under the rest of his scales. Incidentally, the remaining scales in that area are sticking up a bit now, without being pushed out by a lesion. So that is a new symptom.

God, I wish I know what these lesions were.

Just posting again in case anybody has any insight on what on earth these could be, because we are looking at euthanising him since there's nothing else we can do with no diagnosis and little resources.

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Guest kafine

Oh, a water update for you; I am currently in the process of doing their water change early because the test strip I just did told me that the PH is a rather high (or is it low? The acidic end of the scale, anyway). That didn't show up before, and I haven't changed anything. The only thing is there is less salt because as advised I didn't put any more in.

Think that's significant?

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What is you ph ..sorry I was just reading through anything above 7 is good ..Mine sits at 8.4 with no problems ..However I wnat to ask if it is possible that you can upload pics of Ketchup..there is a possibilty there are many things going on here ..from flukes causing ulcers to secondary infection Is he still eating ??? ..If possible I would order metromeds (medicated fish food ) and I would get my hands on prazi (fluke medication )..flukes are a common thing on fish and breed and multiply and even when you kill the mother fluke she still leaves generation behind ..Prazi is very gentle ..I use it once a year Regardless and pond fish should get it twice a year ..If flukes infest enough they will cause leasions and ulcers ..and then bacterial infection will set in ..water changes are important ..knowing youe water is just as important ..even if you take a sample of the water to the local fish store and get them to test it and get exact numbers of (not i's ok or it';s bad we need the actual readings )..get your hands on prazi and medicated fish food metromeds (in the future treat a new fish as if it is sick ..refrain from harsh meds ,but always treat with prazi..fish have flukes 99% of the time )

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I just thought the same as you hi-d pineconing came to mind (dropsy)

Only meds available in UK which I have used to successfully save a fish with dropsy has been Sera Baktapur combined with Sera Baktopur Direct. This combination was used on a fish that had started pine coning and was successfully saved :) However these meds should only be used in a QT .

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I just thought the same as you hi-d pineconing came to mind (dropsy)

Only meds available in UK which I have used to successfully save a fish with dropsy has been Sera Baktapur combined with Sera Baktopur Direct. This combination was used on a fish that had started pine coning and was successfully saved :) However these meds should only be used in a QT .

Thanks Blue I did not realize she was in the Uk ..is prazi available there and what about metromeds ..or a form of bacterial medicated fish food???

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I just thought the same as you hi-d pineconing came to mind (dropsy)

Only meds available in UK which I have used to successfully save a fish with dropsy has been Sera Baktapur combined with Sera Baktopur Direct. This combination was used on a fish that had started pine coning and was successfully saved :) However these meds should only be used in a QT .

Thanks Blue I did not realize she was in the Uk ..is prazi available there and what about metromeds ..or a form of bacterial medicated fish food???

a form of prazi is available here with regards metromeds due to laws here it is ilegal to obtain any antibacterial fish food except through a veternarian due to fact that such foods contain antibiotics.

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Thought this wud be helpful..Pixiefish has this up in the International Help section...A treatment for flukes...an equivalent of Prazi..

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=72485

Just thought of posting since I remember she had it up.. :)

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The metromeds can actually be bought online, but there is always the risk that the package will be confiscated, so thats your call. I believe fishsempai is where I saw the option of shipping to the UK..

Knowing the PH is extremely important here! As well as actual numbers from your test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.. If you haven't changed the water yet, it would be very important to see those numbers before the water change, as well as after...

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