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Healing? Or New Infection? (oooh, With Pics!)


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I'd posted this in my other lengthy chatty thread that I've been having with Lynda, but I thought I'd toss it out here to see if anyone has any thoughts --

Chester the fantail, who has been suffering through a fairly lengthy and traumatic bout of med-resistant tail rot *and* dropsy, looks like he's starting to heal up.

However, he's getting *really* white along the edges of his tail where the pieces fell off -- I mean, seriously white. I don't think the pictures do it justice.

So I'm wondering if there's a possibility he's getting another infection, or if it's just healing whiteness.

Here he is from every possible angle. Except inside out. That would be a tiny bit icky.

ChesterMoreOuchies.jpg

This is his right side, where there was not only tail damage but also you can see right next to the tail where he had a big gaping sore that now is smooth and white and looks a lot better, along with the scales that popped off when he had dropsy.

ChesterFlipSide.jpg

This is the left side, where there isn't nearly as much body damage, just tail issues. He had this beautiful long dangly tail, and now you can see that there's one super-long wisp of it left one one side, but not on the other. Poor ugly thing.

ChesterTail.jpg

Aaaand, here's a spread-out tail shot.

ChesterBackside.jpg

And a back-end shot, too. He was getting grumpy with me at this point because of the flash...

Oh, and his back is like that normally. Like, that isn't because of his recent disease-ridden-ness. :blink:

Thoughts?

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I know you've probably gone through this on the other thread (which I am going to find right now), but what is the history here as far as meds go? What meds are in the tank currenly, which ones have you used.. That kind of thing..

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Umdidum...

I started out by adding salt to my main tank to treat the finrot, but then my fantail freaked the heck out, swelled up, bled out the gills, and started dropping scales everywhere -- Lynda thinks he might be salt intolerant.

So then I put him in a QT tank with Maracyn II to get him un-swelled, which had the added effect of making his tail less red and oozy.

After his meds were up and he'd chilled there a few extra days, I put him back in the main tank and treated the whole thing with prazi, because they'd all been sort of twitchy and shaky, although that might have been due to the ammonia levels of death they'd been suffering through previously.

After a day in the prazi tank, the big big pieces of his tail that you see are missing all fell off, taking with them the remaining red streaks and leaving him with the white-ish border.

Now, I don't believe there's anything medicine-wise in the tank, because the prazi has run its course and with the water changes, I'm pretty sure it must be all gone now.

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LMAO I just read your entire thread! LOL I know for a fact it took over 20 minutes :rofl

I didn't realize you were "Chester's Mommy" lol I must have missed the name change. I've seen your other thread, but knew that Lynda was doing a great job helping you, so seeing how long it got, I admit, I just never read the whole thing though.

You've been through a LOT with these fish!!! Geeeeeeez.. I honestly don't know how you even managed to give a short version for me! : )

OKay so they've all been salted and prazied, and both things are finished, correct? Same with the Maracyn II, the course has been completed?

I see that Lynda suggest your order Medi-Gold or MetroMeds at one point. Did you ever get either of those? And if so did you ever use them?

As for the white.. Most likely that is a sign of healing/regrowth... Recently one of my fish started to get a bit of tail rot.. It cleared and now there are white egdes. The thing is, in your pictures the white looks fuzzy in some spots.. Is that how it looks in real life? White is good, but fuzzy is not.. I can't tell if it's just the picture though...If it's cloudy, fuzzy, thick, it could be that some of the spots are developing a fungus..

At this point all of your tanks are cycled right? And ammonia and nitrite are down to zero? (Just making sure, I don't want to have mixed anything up). What about PH? Did you ever get a PH test?

Sorry for all the q's. Just trying to get the full picture! : ) I have to go out for a bit, but when I get back I'll check back in on you here! : )

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::: LAUGHS :::

You read the whole thread!? You must have been like a woman possessed!! :rofl

Yeah, they've been leading me on a merry chase recently. Every time I feel like throttling my little darlings for having yet *another* problem (omgwai!?) I have to remember that goldfish owning is Serious Business. With capital letters and everything. Yes.

The salt is *very* done, because I wanted to make sure it was all out of the tank before I put Chester back in. The prazi should be completely gone -- it has run its course, definitely, and while I haven't done a 100% water change since then, I've done multiple 10% and 25% ones, as well as gotten a new filter cartridge. And the Maracyn II was in a totally different tank, so there isn't any of that lurking around in my real tank, huzzah!

His tail isn't... fuzzy. I'm not at home so I can't verify that for this second, but I spent most of yesterday with my eyeballs squished up against the glass muttering things like, "Slow down so mommy can EXAMINE you, dearest!!" and wishing I had an immobilizing freeze ray of some kind, and at that point there wasn't any fuzziness. It is, however, different shades of white. Most of it is what you can see in the photos, just the clearish-white that tends to be at the ends of all fish tails, as far as I can tell. But in a few parts, it's thicker, either in little lines or as dots. The dot parts were worrying me, because ICK!, but then I noticed that they tend to follow the thick white lines, leading me to believe that maybe they're just kind of... kinks, in the healing part.

That probably made no sense. Uhm. It looks like this: ---------o------oo--------- So, the specky parts aren't just randomly on his tail, they're specifically on the thick white parts. That probably made even less sense. Curse you, useless digital camera, for not capturing this properly!

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Oh, whoops, and yes. Cycled tank. I've been drop testing daily, because darn it, it's almost fun! I feel like a mad scientist, with... vials, and... stuff.

I haven't gotten a pH tester yet nor the food medicine -- I hesitated to get the medicated food because of my previous sad, sad history with feeding them that sort of thing long-term. I didn't know if they'd even be helped by it anymore, you know? So I wanted to see how they'd do before shelling out $12 on something that might not even do anything for them.

(Not getting the pH tester was just laziness. :donthit: I'll get around to it at some point, unless you think that it's really immediately necessary for checking up on their health. In which case, to the pet store I shall run!)

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LMAO Yep I read the WHOLE thing lol Are you trying to beat my title as yappiest koko's member? LOL Just kidding, Honestly, I've been meaning to read it anyway.. Anytime there is an ongoing thread like that I usually end up reading it out of curiousity, and to see what is recommended, all that : )

I think it's good that the spots aren't fuzzy... Fuzzy can indicate a fungus, and I'm not experienced with fungus, but I know they are a pain in the _ _ _ !!!! lol

Your description actually makes sense to me (I think!). The clearish white at the ends I definately do not think is a problem. That part in my opinion is just the healing, regrowing. I think THAT is a good thing : ) The spots do have me curious though, only because one of my fish has one right now. It started as just a spot, then got red streaks, then some string of mouth rot began.. That got me reading up more on diseases, and most of the books do mention that the bacteria that caused mouth rotn ( Flexibacter Columnaris) , can start as white spots on the fins. I am still learning when it comes to diagnosing & treatment, and Lynda has been helping you so great so far, so I would love to see if we can get her input about those.. But they do look very different from Ich, and very different than the clear white you are seeing on the end.

You said you have seen red streaking before, is that correct? Other than the spots, how is the fish behaving right now..?? Without seeing your fish, it's so hard to tell if these spots are a sign of a bacterial infection occuring where the fins were damaged, or if it's just regular healing. (Add to that the fact that I've been learning more and more, but am not an expert on this stuff lol Bet that makes ya feel real good huh? lol)

Anyway, this makes me think that ordering something like MetroMeds might be a good idea now.. I know this fish has been through a LOT, and because of that I know what you mean about not wanting to just start him up on medicated food.. Especially because he had the other medicated food for so long. But it's been a while since you've done a medicated food. As Lynda said before, Medi-Gold and MetroMeds are great medicated foods. I am leaning towards MetroMeds in this case because it contains oxytetracycline, which is good if it IS caused by flex. (I am giving those to my fish right now). The reason I asked about PH is because it's important when starting water treatments.. Recently Trinket told me that while certain meds are ineffective at a high ph, or low ph, medicated food will not be effected by PH. So you don't really want to start anything else that you add to the water until we have those readings. So metromeds seems like it could be a good place to start..

You can also try the approach you've been trying. Fresh water, and time. It might be enough to clear things up.. I think the behavior of the fish is important. If he is acting sick, or behaving strangely, or appearing to get WORSE, you want to think about meds. If the fish is behaving normal, and seeming to get better, you can try to continue with perfect water.

I totally feel like I am rambling right now. I hope everything made sense! My boyfriend's sister is having all this drama with her work right now and every time I start to type something happens, and I get a phone call, and I get distracted, so if any of this sounds weird, just ask me. lol

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I'll see if I can get someone over to take a better picture of his tail... I was thinking originally of hoisting him out of the water to take a photo, but since I'm a little worried that jostling him in any way whatsoever will result in, I don't know, all of his other fins falling off... I'm a little wary of it. Crazy fish. :krazy: He *has* been getting a lot of new growth, although it's probably hard to imagine from the pics. But the two little stick-out pieces at the very base of his body were just wiggling by themselves at first, and now they've been connected to the rest of the tail by the thin white part, so... yay!

I'll (sigh, my wallet) order some medicated food for him, just in case, and head over to the store to get a pH tester -- The more I stare (and stare, and staaaaare) at him, the more I think it's just weird healed-over parts, like... like how when you scrape your knee you might get some small scabs and some big ones? (Eeuw. Scabs. Sick.) (What am I saying?) (Oh, yes -- ), but in a worst case scenario I want to make sure the food'll be effective.

He's acting fine, really!

I mean, he still has a little trouble steering -- every once in a while when he gets caught in my bubble wall he'll give me a really pissy look, very much "Don't laugh at the fact that I just ricocheted off the glass! It's your ###### bleach-water that got me here in the first place!" -- but that's not really symptomatic of anything other than just a missing tail.

And I haven't seen any redness since, you know, all the red parts conveniently fell off.

(Which, while useful and probably helpful overall for the general well-being of my fish, I'd rather not ever have happen again. There's something wrong about seeing two and a half inches of tail drifting in the current. :unsure: )

Such a big, brave boy is my fish....

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Ahahahaha, in a completely unrelated question...

Goldfish eggs aren't, perhance, little white-ish balls about the size of a pin head, are they?

That might be found on plant leaves?

Because I *know* that after five years, my fish haven't suddenly decided to start spawning, *especially* since that sort of hanky-panky might rip Chester's tail more, and that... might make my head explode.

:blowup:

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Whoops.

That just posted three times...

Must... must edit these other two so that it doesn't look as though I posted like a crazy person..... No one must suspect.....

Edited by Minx
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Ahahahaha, in a completely unrelated question...

Goldfish eggs aren't, perhance, little white-ish balls about the size of a pin head, are they?

That might be found on plant leaves?

yes they are.... :D ...congrats on getting at least attempted to become a grandmother.. :rofl

ohh and the white on the fins..I think its healing..my fish has it too..I got worried in the beginning..but touched it..and saw her fins were actually healing post ich.. :)

Edited by SunshineGurl
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::: runs in circles :::

What do I dooooo!?

Do they go in their own tank!?

Do they need lots of upkeep!?

If I just leave them alone and allow them to be devoured by their parents (whom I am very, very grumpy with), am I a MURDERER!?

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::: runs in circles :::

What do I dooooo!?

Do they go in their own tank!?

Do they need lots of upkeep!?

If I just leave them alone and allow them to be devoured by their parents (whom I am very, very grumpy with), am I a MURDERER!?

No, you would not be a murderer,lol. My floozy Black Velvet seems to drop eggs every time I turn around. After saving the first few and now having 13 babies to figure out what to do with as they grow,I just let them be eaten. Enough is enough already.

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do you have only females..or males as well...???..if you just leave them in there the parents will eat most of them..and noo you are not a murderer..LOL...umm..a partial water change can help..as those will come out..ummm..if they spawn...I mean if the eggs hatch and you have fry..yes they will need a different setup..since they are babies they will need some extra care..I really dont have an experience..I know breeding and bring up fry is not soo easy...I will really leave this to more experienced members to answer..I am sorry..but dont panic..things will be ok.. :)

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::: laughs :::

Thanks, you guys. I'm calmer now.

I went downstairs and read my fishes a lecture about how good boys and girls (whichever they are -- I've actually never been able to figure it out) don't throw eggs all over the place and worry their mommy about a possible FRENZY OF FRY.

They seemed receptive to it, but as soon as I turned around they were chasing each other again...

Sigh.

I'll just ignore it, then. I've got enough to worry about keeping my fantail alive. If any of them actually hatch and remain un-eaten, then we'll see what my conscience will demand I do, aha.

This does, on the other hand, explain why my Oranda was looking a little beat-up this morning. :ehh

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OMG you've got eggs!!! How fun!! : )

I only have like 2 seconds to type so I have to be brief though! lol

Speed typer time. : ) You crack me up by the way lol

I know exactly what you mean when you say you've scraped a knee and it healed more. That is totally possible!!! Especially if the behavior is normal. I think having the meds is good. Just don't open them. If you keep them unopened, in a cool dry place (not the fridge though, I was just told that haha) they will last for 6 months!!! Which ones did you order. I think right now you can totally just keep an eye on everything, but know you have them in case of an emergency : )

I will write more tomorrow.. Shane went downstairs to get something to eat (okay something for ME to eat) and I couldn't resist a quick kokos fix! LMAO

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this is totally not on this subject, but i wanted you guys to know how you about make my day being yourselves and posting. of course i learn a ton here, but the personalities and great people just...i needed a smile so bad today...thanks. your just great. :) never change.

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Sorry I've not been around. Well, on the disease side of things anyway. I've played on the lighter side forums a little. I've just had so many other things I've had to focus on and, since I no longer have insurance, I can't get my anxiety pills, so reading all these sad cases of sick fish is just too much for my psycho mind :krazy: to handle sometimes!

OMG! I'm sorry for laughing, but poor Chester is the oddest looking aqua puppy I've ever seen! But, I'm bettin' when he gets better, he's gonna start looking a whole lot better.

Yup, sounds like eggs and if it were me, I would totally take 'em out, let the fish eat 'em and/or the fry! I'm sorry but I just don't have the room or time or patience to feed, raise and find homes for babies.

I also think that, if the white isn't fuzzy, it's most likely new growth. Color isn't natural. Creating color takes a lot of energy in a good, healthy fish. It's all Chester can do to just grow the tail let alone put in the extra energy for color. That will come later..... or.... maybe not all at. Maybe you'll get an orange and white fish out of this. Except for the white spots in the existing tail. White edges are one thing, but white spots in existing orange....? That's not indicative of new growth, so I'd keep an eye on that. So then, you're done medicating with everything? Even though he's looking better on the outside, there still may be something lurking on the inside, which is why the concern for med food.

Now, you're concerned the med food will be ineffective because you've fed it too long in the past, but if that's the case, the immunity will only be built up against the particular med(s) in the food fed. So, Metro-Meds might be a good choice as it contains a different set of meds that aren't typical.

As far as the bumps, while, yeah, it could be some other sort of problem as parasites aren't affected by bacterial meds; those need to be treated with meds specialized for parasites, but I'm leaning toward these bumps being mutated growth of the rays in the fins.

Okay, I'm gonna take a look at your other, original post.

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::: waves :::

Hi!!

I'm sorry you're having anxiety issues -- I would sing you a soothing little song about happy fish, but I'm not sure you'd be able to hear me, and it would probably enrage my budgies. :madrant

Isn't he just a *freak*, though? You can see why I had to purchase him -- and at that point, he was about naked from scale loss, too! Like an alien goldfish! (I was almost considering knitting him a little shirt, or something, back then -- now, yes, dorsal fin prosthetics seem like the way to go.)

By the time I stopped freaking out on the board and actually went downstairs to poke around at the eggs, they'd eaten all but about three. I've popped them into a separate tank so that if they hatch I can pop them back into Mommy and Daddy and Daddy's tank (Mommy and Mommy and Daddy? The possibilities are endless, really) and let them have some fun. Which is sort of macabre. But, you know, I'm like that. ::: evil laugh :::

I've bought some... MediGold? I think that's the name of it. So that should be here soon and then I'll start handing it out for supper, so hopefully that'll take care of everything -- I'm *really* hoping the bumps aren't parasites, but I guess we'll see what happens! With my luck, they'll probably be a rare and heretofore unseen form of fish rabies, and then I'm really in trouble, because there's nothing worse than a hydrophobic fish!

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Isn't he just a *freak*, though? You can see why I had to purchase him -- and at that point, he was about naked from scale loss, too! Like an alien goldfish!

He really has to be THE strangest fish EVER LMAO!!!! When I first opened the thread and saw the pics I was just like "whaaaaaaaaaat?"... How funny!!!! Of course you had to buy the little freakshow!! LOL

Medi-Gold isn't a bad choice either... Both of them are good for different things... I'm still not even entirely sure which one to use when. I know that MetroMeds is the choice for dropsy. I know that MetroMeds is good for flex infections... And I know that Medi-Gold is an AWESOME food... You might want to give Rick a call, and ask him if he has sent out your order.. If not, you could describe the symptoms and ask him which one he thinks is the best to use.. He would probably change your order if needed.. And of course he may very well just say that you got the right one. OR he might say "sorry, it's shipped already, so deal with it!" LMAO

With my luck, they'll probably be a rare and heretofore unseen form of fish rabies, and then I'm really in trouble, because there's nothing worse than a hydrophobic fish!

LMAO you sound like me.. lol... Seriously, I've had problems with most of my fish, right after another. When I see one get sick I am thinking "for REAL?! I NEVER just happen to pick out a healthy freakin fish?!?!?!?!".... It's helped me learn alot, but geeez, can't we catch a break?! LOL

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Oh, illnesses.... It's my own darn fault -- I mean, anyone looking at him originally would have said, "Um... don't buy him. Are you nuts? No. He will be a problem child."

So now when he has odd disease action going on, I have to just sigh and remind myself that I potentially brought it upon myself. ;)

(And think how boring our lives would be without the occasional fin rot... or constipation... or seizures... or kuru....)

After he's fixed up, I'll get to work on my telescope -- do you know of any way to fix blindness? Or perhaps where to purchase a teeny tiny aquatic guide dog? :rofl

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Oh, but in retrospect I probably shouldn't... given the way Angst tries to impregnate everything (his tankmates, the filters, gel food...), I shudder to think of what might start spawning!

(Otherwise, you know, it's a totally viable idea.)

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