Jump to content

Immediate Help Needed For Carnival Commons?


Guest NewToThis

Recommended Posts

Guest NewToThis

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? .2 ish with ammolock if that counts

[*]Nitrite Level? unknown

[*]Nitrate level? unknown

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 6.4 ish

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 6.4 ish

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API(?) drops

[*]Water temperature? upper 60s

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10 gal one day

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? unknown

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Doing 25-50% daily

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 6 1 inch commons

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? stress coat, ammolock, aquarium salt

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Tetra but a few haven't eaten yet

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? they are all new

[*]Any medications added to the tank? no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? frayed fins

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Ok. I got some carnival goldfish that weren't looking too good, figured they would die, but they would have died for sure if left there. I have them in a 10 gal right now, with no filtration. I got 4 yesterday, one didn't make acclimation, 2 were looking good, and one was(is) hiding under the hollow rocks. I did a 50% water change this morning and will do more. I'll call the original fish that wasn't doing well A and the 3 new ones B C and D.

A - Didn't think he would make it, but lasted the night. He moves if disturbed, as I was looking for him to see if he was alive not intentionally disturbing him. He is really clamped but still breathing. I am frantic to see if these guys will survive, and have been looking around on the internet. It seems like flukes. I was looking at trying a salt dip but I'm afraid I'll kill him. Can someone help me make that easier in a 2 gallon bucket with aquarium salt?

B - One of the new ones, clamped but swims around with other ones.

C - Was going to be thrown away but the guy gave him too me. He wasnt looking too good at that point but perked up while I was acclimating him. When he tries to swim he spirals around. Breathing heavily. He'll swim away from the bubbler, and if disturbed

D - Similar to C but worse. Pretty much same thing but is less responsive to disturbances.

Is there anything I can do for these fish? I did not expect them to survive but I figured I could try. I know about the water requirements and have a large tank on hand and access to goldfish ponds. I have aquarium salt, melafix, ish treatment, and that's it. I'm really wanting to try a salt dip. I don;t know how I forgot the prazi today. My LFS wont be open tomorrow and I have college Monday. I just need to get them through until then. Please help me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Your kind heart is so good, but you've gotten yourself into a real situation. 6 goldfish in a 10 gallon, without filtration, is a recipe for disaster. With filtration is a disaster. You need a 60 gallon tank and a big filter (one that moves 10 times the water as the size of the tank), but for now, you must get a filter, at least one that runs 200 gph. And you need to do daily 100% water changes. I would also suggest you get drop test kits for nitrites and nitrates as well. Chances are, this early, you won't have readings, especially for nitrates, but you should still have the tests on hand and use them.

And yes, you need salt, but not a dip. You need to get it into the tank at a full 0.3%. You do also need to get a prazi treatment going. I would also strongly suggest getting some medicated food. MediGold from Goldfish Connection is best, but Jungle makes a decent anti-bacterial food that would work okay.

Salt is usually referenced by volume. 0.1%, 0.2% and 0.3%. 0.1%=1 tsp salt per 1 gallon water, 0.2% =2 tsp salt per 1 gallon water and 0.3%=3 tsp salt per 1 gallon water. 3 tsps = 1 TBLSP. Start the salt at 0.1%, then after 12 hours, up it to 0.2%, then after another 12 hours, bring it up to 0.3%.

You need to get all of these treatments going ASAP.

Edited by Lynda Von G
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest NewToThis

Yeah I'm sort of kicking myself now. But I have care for any life so I really want to help these guys.

I have a 30 gal I am cycling now. That has a large, maybe 400gph filter. Should I switch them to that? Can I put that big of a filter in the 10 gal tank? I figured it would be easier to do water changing in the smaller one right now, and I'm running low on salt.

I thought full water changes are bad? I did seed it from a friend's established tank, with a small established filter. But I don;t know how much that did. I put a small layer of gravel over the entire bottom.

I have about 1.5 tbsp in there now, been there for about an hour. When should I add in more? When I add the salt, where do I put it? Just drop it in? All this measurement talk has me really confused.

I don't have any fish stores available to me until Monday afternoon. Is there anything I can use for substitutes? That's why I was thinking the salt dip for flukes since I can't access the pet store and thus prazi now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Orandaa

The 400 gph will most likely throw your goldfish around the tank if you put it in the 10 g. Just work on getting the 30 g ready and that'll be a much better place for them, but still small.

As for everything else, Im afraid Im not sure what to do, but others will :) Good job on the rescue, you're probably right they'd most likely all be dead by now had you not taken them. It's also good to see that you have done your research and have provided information that a lot of new-comers don't understand.

Good luck with everything and keep us updated :) Get some pictures if you can too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Orandaa

Good job with the tank, its a lot better than I thought it'd be (only cause you were a little rushed to get it ready).

I see that one fish is sorta sitting on the bottom but I dont think its anything to do with you, its been under a lot of stress. Its good to see you have an airstone in there, and you say you're doing daily water changes so I think your fish are going to turn out okay. However, if they do die, don't blame yourself. I can tell by the information you give, and the tank set up that you have an understanding for the care taking of goldfish, and that if you were to acquire goldfish in a less stressful manor that you would be a great owner.

Good luck :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Yeah I'm sort of kicking myself now. But I have care for any life so I really want to help these guys.

I have a 30 gal I am cycling now. That has a large, maybe 400gph filter. Should I switch them to that? Can I put that big of a filter in the 10 gal tank? I figured it would be easier to do water changing in the smaller one right now, and I'm running low on salt.

I thought full water changes are bad? I did seed it from a friend's established tank, with a small established filter. But I don;t know how much that did. I put a small layer of gravel over the entire bottom.

I have about 1.5 tbsp in there now, been there for about an hour. When should I add in more? When I add the salt, where do I put it? Just drop it in? All this measurement talk has me really confused.

I don't have any fish stores available to me until Monday afternoon. Is there anything I can use for substitutes? That's why I was thinking the salt dip for flukes since I can't access the pet store and thus prazi now.

You have a kind heart. How can you kick yourself for that?

The 10 gallon is brand new, so it's not keeping a cycle anyway, so getting the fish into a bigger tank couldn't do anything but help. You just need to monitor and test the water daily and do water changes accordingly. Basically, you'd be cycling with fish. It can be done. You just need to be very diligent about testing and water changes.

No, 100% water changes aren't bad. The beneficial bacteria lives in the filter and gravel and on rocks and decorations. Virtually none of it lives in the water. All the water is doing is keeping it alive, that is, if it's allowed to dry out, then it dies. But, the water changes will actually be easier if you have more water to handle the ammonia output, i.e., the 30 gallon tank.

When your water is toxic with ammonia, it's far better to do massive water changes than allow the fish to live in the ammonia. Also, water changes aren't only about ammonia. It's also about bacteria. Along with the beneficial bacteria that help neutralize the ammonia, bad bacteria is growing too. That's why you need to do a 100% water change once a month; to get rid of any bad bacteria.

You don't add salt directly to the water. This will create a massive concentration of salt all in one place which could be deadly. You need to take out some tank water and pre-dissolve the salt in this water and then slowly pour it back in the tank near the filter(s) so it mixes in the water thoroughly.

You only have 0.045% salt in there right now, which is less than half the salt you need to take it to 0.1% volume. For the 10 gallon, you should have 10 tsp of salt in the tank to bring it to 0.1%. So, you need to add 5 1/2 more tsp of salt to bring it to 0.1%. Then in 12 hours, add 10 tsps more salt to bring it to 0.2%, then in another 12 hours, add 10 more tsps to bring it to 0.3%. Of course, for the 30 gallon, those numbers would be 0.1%=30 tsps; 0.2%=60 tsps and 0.3%=90 tsps. 3 tsps = 1 TBLSP, so that will make measuring a little easier.

I would suggest moving the fish to the 30 gallon and get the salt up to 0.1% in there, and bring it up to 0.3% as described. Then, get another large carton of aquarium salt (any type of rock salt would do though. Kosher, pickling, sea salt if this will be cheaper for you) and drop test kits for nitrites and nitrates. Oh, and the medicated food and prazi.

Remember to do your math for the salt with the water changes. For instance, if you remove 50% of the water, you're removing 50% of the salt. If you have a 30 gallon tank at 0.3%, then you've removed half of 90 tsps of salt, or 45 tsps of salt. So, you'd have to add back in 45 more tsps of salt after the water change. And remember, water changes are based on test readings. While cycling, you won't be able to help having ammonia and/or nitrite readings, but keeping them as close to 0 as possible, through water changes, is most important, especially with sick fish.

Edited by Lynda Von G
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest NewToThis

Mmk. I can move them. I'll wait until I see how they fare tomorrow as it's going on 2am. I just did about an 80% water change. Everyone is still alive and looking better actually.

So if I have the 30 gal I won't need to do the daily 100% water changes then, correct?

I keep getting different numbers for what is "toxic." What would you know it as? The water in the bags they came in was over .5, The tank is now between 0 and the next mark up.

Thanks for clearing up the salting numbers, I'll add that in now.

Can you possibly give me a price estimation on the Prazi and medicated food?

Thank you very much. I'm getting this alot better now. I really appreciate your time. (:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

See what a difference a large water change can make?

Again, the water changes are based on the readings. So, no, it's possible you may not need to do 100% water changes and it's possible you might not need to do changes every day, but then you might need to.

Water changes are like the salt. You remove half the water, you're removing half the ammonia. So, if you had an ammonia reading of, say, .5, and you did a 50% water change, you'd have .25 ammonia left. Which might be okay for healthy fish, but not so much for sick fish. Again, you want to keep those readings as close to 0 as you can, so a 70%-90% change would be much better for them.

If you can keep those ammonia readings where you say they are now, that would be just about the best you could hope for in a cycling tank.

The MediGold on Goldfish Connection is $11.99 for the 8 oz size, plus shipping. The Hikari Prazi Pro is $14.99. Ordering them together would cut down on shipping, I'm sure. I think you need to call them to ask for overnight shipping, which won't be cheap. If you call before noon EST, they will ship it out that same day. There is no substitute for their food, but you can get the prazi a little cheaper elsewhere. Prazi Pro from Goldfish Utopia.

If your fish are still eating well and look like they may have the strength to fight their illnesses, the Jungle Anti-bacterial food could work. The difference between the two foods is that the Jungle only controls any internal bacterial infections from getting worse. It doesn't help kill what may already be in the fish's system. So, it's up to the fish to be strong enough to fight that infection itself. The Goldfish Connection Medi-Gold will not only stop new bacteria from invading, but helps kill existing bacteria as well.

And, as I said before, there are fluke meds at your local fish store that contain praziquantel along with other meds, which are usually not needed, so it's sort of chemical overkill, but, in a pinch, at least you're getting the prazi fast. And, in your case, these extra meds may help with whatever bacterial infection yoru fish may be fighting.

So, it's kind of up to you to determine whether you want to spend the money to overnight these things or use what may be available at your local fish store(s).

Edited by Lynda Von G
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest NewToThis

I know it probably sounds terrible, but I can't afford that.

I got Jungle parasite guard and used that. I could swear it said prazi but now I don;t see it as an ingredient. It says it treats flukes tho. Will it still work?

I have 4 left. One really good looking one, one fairly good looking one and two that look a little rough. After a closer look it appears the one isn;t clamped but missing his dorsal fin entirely. I have some Melafix, should I dose with that as weel as the salt and parasite clear?

The 2 poor ones are sort of laying around but pop up if disturbed. I'm worried about them. I doubt they'll make it much longer. Any ideas?

Oh, and they have the stringy poop, which is bad, right? How does one rid of that? Peas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...