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Whitespot Info


Guest fishyfishyfish

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Guest fishyfishyfish

I have white spot quite bad all the fish are completely covered (the black moors are almost white)

I've bought some protozin and i've put in the first dose today and i have to treat on days 123 & 6.

I was recommended to use salt but i didnt really know how much to put in etc so i'm using a medication.

I have a question as there wasnt much info on the bottle

Q - When i put the second, third, & fourth dose in am i meant to do a water change in between the doses or do i not change any water during the 6 days of dosing?

Thanks

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check http://www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/protozin.htm

They say that by adding on day 1 2 3 the product safely compounds in strength.

I would assume by this that no water changes are done.

Check with waterlife if you not sure info@waterlife.co.uk

What are your pH , ammonia, nitrite, nitrate readings?

Shouldn't this post be in the diseases section?

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Personally (just my opinion) I would not use protozin for white spot

Please check the dissease section and right now follow its recommendations

This forum has been here for a long time and the treatments have been tried and proved from experience.

I wish u best of luck

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Thanks for the info - a few ppl have told me to use salt but i'm afraid i will overdose or underdose cos i dont really understand it so im using protozin..

I'm on the 3rd day & 3rd dose and none of the fish look any less 'spottyy' yet and they are bombed out on the bottom of the tank,

They come to life if i lift the lid & they start begging for food but it looks like it is really taking it's toll on them.

Is this normal or might they be dieing?

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This is a bad sign!! And I believe it's the medicine....

I used a similar medicine to treat Ich, and all of my fish died.. After sitting on the bottom. These meds are VERY harsh and very tricky... The salt is soooo much safer...

You said you dont want to use the salt because you don't understand it. I promise if you are willing to remove the meds, and start with salt, I will walk you through it the entire way! : ) Salt is much much safer, and very effective.. I was taught how to use it, and had success, since then I've passed it along to others, and they've had success..

Right now, if you could do a full water change, and get that medicine OUT, it will help trust me. Temperature matched, dechlorinated water... Then make sure you have your carbon IN your filter (it will get rid of any trace of other meds).. Then we can talk salt. I will go through it step by step with you. :)

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Okay I believe I found the ingredients to protozin.. If the site I found is correct, it contains Malachite Green, Formalin, and Copper. All three of these ingredients are very harsh strong chemicals. They DO have purpose, and there are cases where they are needed. But there are many things that make them complicated. They can be deadly in water with a High PH for example...

Trust me and this site and the salt! : )

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Please try to supply as much info as you can

*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Edited by BigFish
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Filling out the box that BigFish provided is VERY important.. I just checked your other thread, and I don't believe you have posted any test readings anywhere. I am guessing that means you do not have a test kit?

Without a test kit, it is even more important that MEDS NOT BE USED.. If you have any ammonia reading at ALL, that mixed with the the meds becomes a deadly mix... Again, if the Ph is too high, it can also be deadly.

Right now we need you to fill out as much information as you can in the box.. Answer whatever you can. Normally I would suggest testing the water FIRST. In this case, because the meds have already been added, and the fish are already started to display signs that it is hurting them, I would say an immediate water change is crucial. .. Save a portion of the water, and you can test that later.. Either buy a test kit, or even take it to your local pet store and see if they will test it for you..

After the meds are removed, and the water is fresh and new, you will need to add your first dose of salt.. To treat Ich salt must be added to equal a concentration of 0.3%. It seems complicated but it's not. You want to add it to 0.1% first, then wait for about 12 hours. SO rather than confuse you with ALL the details. I will start with just the first part.

The first thing you will do is add One Teaspoon of salt per gallon of water in your tank. That will bring you to a level of 0.1% salt, and you will leave it that way for 12 hours.. In order to do this, you need to purchase salt. I saw on your other thread that there was some confusion over what salt to use. Right now your simplest option, to not confuse further, is to buy some aquarium salt at a pet store. (I do not know what brands you have there though). In order to add the salt you will take a cup (not used before, it can be just a plastic disposable cup) and add the appropriate amount of salt to the cup. So if your tank is 20 gallons, you will add 20 teaspoons... If your tank is 30 gallons, you will add 30 teaspoons.. Then once the salt is in the cup, add some of your tank water to almost fill the cup.. Stir it around and dissolve it as best you can. You can pour some of it back in the tank, then add more tank water. Continue to do this until all the salt is dissolved in water... Then you can wait..

Good Luck!!! :)

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Ok - thanks - your right 'I dont have a clue what my test readings are' but i know my ph is 6.8 and from when i had a test kit (when i had more fish in than this) my nitrate and nitrate were negligible and ammonia wasn't even present but that was a while back so ill get to the shop asap and get a test kit.

Ill upload info when i get it.

Thanks & i really appreciate the help.

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Hi - I bought a testing strip kit yesterday & here are the results

NITRATE 25 (high)

NITRITE 0

CARBONATE HARDNESS >7 degrees d

PH 6.8

(Ammonia test kit was out of date so i didn't use it)

3 Of the black moors are dead and i have 2 oranda's left that are just flapping at the top of the water and all their fins are rotting away,

I didn't do a water change as the shopkeeper told me not to as he said it would dilute the treatment & he tried to say that the treatment will either kill or cure them. Which didn't help.

Then i asked another shop & they said to water change & replace the treatment as per the amount of water i change but he couldnt say wether i needed to just put in 1 days worth of medicine or 3 days worth.

What i mean by that is the medicine was administered over a 3 day course to compound in strength and if i do a 20 gal water change do i just replace 1 days worth 6ml or 3 days worth 18 ml??

I'm at a loss as what to do now but tbh the fish look like they wont make it the day anyway so if anyone wants to tell me what to do ill gladly just do it as i've nothing to lose.

p.s. i havent ignored your advice about salt but i just keep getting so many conflicting views albeit the salt theory seems to keep cropping up.

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I am sorry you lost so many fish.. I know you are getting conflicting information. I've been there... Before I found koko's I spent about 6 months trying to keep my fish healthy.. I am sorry to say it, but 99% of pet stores employees do NOT know what they are talking about.. You are going to get the occaisional few who can really help. But many of them simply do not know enough, or are being taught what they learned which is wrong..

They are absolutely right. The meds WILL either kill your fish or they will get better. Here's the idea behind it. The meds are STRONG & HARSH. THese meds work best for people with a large number of fish. Pet Stores, Breeders. Basically the strong survive the meds and live, the weak can't handle it and will die.. IN a pet store, that's fine!! They don't care. So the weak fish die, the strong ones live, and they sell the strong ones. NO one is attached to them, so who really cares?

ALso, it is simply too hard for the stores to salt individual tanks. These stores want to SELL Fish. They want to make MONEY off of fish. If some die, then you come back and they sell you MORE fish.. Most stores work this way. I am sorry to say so but it's true.. They want you to spend money, so they are going to sell you Meds,Products that don't work..

At this point, I 100% believe the meds are killing your fish.. It might be too late. Do what you must, but I believe your only chance of saving them is to get rid of the medicine.. And TRY the salt!!!! Before I found this board I lost about 20 fish in half a year. They all kept dying. And I would buy more, and medicines.. Knock on wood, since I found this board, and followed the advice on here, I've had successs with all of my new fish. I've cured differnt ones of different things all using the methods on here. Sometimes, meds ARE needed.. The moderators WILL tell you when you need to use a med..

You said you will do anything at this point.. It might be too late for them, but can you at least TRY the fresh water and salt?? These meds are killing them..

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More, but it wouldn't let me edit:

I found this board because my fish had Ich.. I had 6 goldfish. One of them had a red sore so I removed him from the main tank.. The other 5 got Ich a few days later.. They had very very few spots.. I treated them with QuickCure.. (Two of the three ingredients in your med)... They ALL DIED. Two of them didn't even have ANY spots.. The fish in the QT tank got Ich a few days later. He was completely covered in the spots.. I knew the rest of the fish had died so I did not want to try the meds.. I found this board, and the same people that are now telling YOU to use the salt, told me.. I decided to listen to them. The fish who was given the salt lived, even though he had it SOO SOOO bad.. IT WORKS...

Finally, at the very least.. DO NOT ADD 3 doses of meds to the water!!! NO WAY!!! That is a death sentence for them

How bout a compromise... Forget the salt for now. JUST give them fresh clean water.. NO MEDS.. See how they respond...

Let me tell you something else that I forgot.. Out of the 6 fish I had, ONE other was removed from the meds..After the 4 died, I grabbed the remaining fish and stuck him in a one gallon bowl of fresh water.. He started swimming again!!! Now, the bowl was too small, so the ammonia ended up killing him.. However, I believe if i had known to put him in a LARGE volume of fresh water, he would have survived..

Okay that's my speech! : ) I am not trying to sound pushy, or like a "know it all". I just feel strongly in this case!! Best of luck to you... And, oh yeah, did I mention? FRESH WATER AND SALT!!!?? :rolleyes:

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Righto - i'm gonna try freshwater & salt on my 1 remaining oranda - thats 4 dead in 5 days!

It was laid on it's side this morning looking very dead so i went to fish it out & it swam off, so maybe just maybe it's a keeper but i won't hold my breath.

Fingers crossed and thanks again & ill take the advice on here more seriously inb the future.

One other thing - I took a sample of water in to the pet store for him to test yesterday & everything was at zero's which was great but the ph reading was 6.6

He said this is way too low for oranda's and this might be causing the fin rot issue because it's acidic??

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6.6 is very low for goldfish, but as many of us have already told you from your first post, it is the meds that are killing your fish. If you have not done a recent large water change its hard to fathom that your ammonia readings would be zero, especially with high nitrates.

I'd like to explain something to you. Almost every one of us came here with the same type of problem. Sue has told you about her experience, and I remember clearly when she first came here with sick fish. I, also, came here with a fantail that was totally black from ammonia burns, meds, and being in too small of a tank. We are speaking to you from experience. We are giving you basically the same advice that was given to us to save our fish. The people on this board know their stuff. We know what harsh meds can do to fish. We're not trying to give you "off the cuff" opinions. Any advice that you are given has been tried and proved by almost every member here.

The lfs guy was right in the respect that the meds they sell will either kill your fish or cure them. Thats why they are an absolute last resort, and why there are many gentler meds out there that will work without killing your fish. I came here a year ago with 2 very sick fish...one at death's door. I followed everyone's advice to the letter and now they are fat, happy, and healthy, although Moby has a permanent cosmetic tumor on his dorsal because of the meds I almost killed him with.

I hope your remaining fish survives and heals, and I'm sorry that you lost the rest of your fish. Its a very hard thing to watch your pets die. The people at the lfs are notorious for giving bad advice as you have found out. All of us really try to help here, and its kind of disheartening when its too late.

Crossing my fingers for your last fish and hope the water changes help! :goodluck

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Cheers although the last fish is totally on it's side and motionless but it's still breathing, i've done a 50% water change and added the first dose of salt so maybe things will get better, if not for this fish for the next fish i put in.

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Guest fishyfishyfish

I've done the 3rd salt dose now so i'm at 0.3% and my last remaining fish is hanging on so i thought i'd post a pic.

p.s. don't look if your squeamish! If it survives i'm going to rename it ZOMBIE! You will see what i mean!!! It's been like this for 3 days now.

look down for pic

DSC00112.jpg

DSC00109.jpg

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Guest fishyfishyfish

If this is what the treatments do to fish - where do they get off selling the stuff?

It's constantly floating at the top now so will i need to medicate for swim bladder disease or something else now??

p.s. hs anyone else had a fish looking this bad and it survived to become healthy again?

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Aww poor thing!! I was away for the last few days, so this is the first chance I have had to check in on you.

I am glad you decided to get rid of the meds. I am sorry you lost the other 4, but I hope this final fish can hang on. I won't lie, he is in bad shape. But if he is holding on, that's good.. He's made it a long time.

What level do you have the salt at now? Do you still see any Ich spots? When is the last time you saw any on this particular fish? The salt needs to be in for 6 days after the last spot falls off. However, on this fish I see that the slime coat is thickened and peeling badly. The thick white slime coat you are seeing occurs when the fish is stressed. It's a natural response and the meds have caused this fish a LOT of stress. How did he look BEFORE the meds? Also the fins are clamped, and there is a lot of fraying of the tail. All signs of stress, and most of it, I believe was the long exposure to those meds.

Salt (while needed to cure the ich) can also encourage a thicker production of the slime coat. My fish looked similar to this AFTER the Ich was gone. The fins started to fray, the slime coat was thickened. At that point I was told to lower the salt to 0.1% (which is healing but will not cause the slime coat to get so thick) and to reduce the stress. However, he had also been clear of any spots for 6 days.

This is why I am wondering how bad the Ich was on this particular fish, and how long ago it went away.. And how much salt is in there now. Let me know, and we can go from there.

Right now the fish needs healing time. I suggest you get a towel to cover the tank. Give the fish darkness, quiet and some time to recover..

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Guest fishyfishyfish

It's at 0.3% and the fish doesnt appear to have any whitespots and it was looking like that when i started adding the salt, should i now reduce the salt back down?

The whitespot was just on the fins but there all rotted away now so no whitespot???

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Hmmmm. I am torn on this one.. I wish I had a definate answer but I can only really tell you what I would do in this case.

Personally, I would cut back the salt to 1 teaspoon per gallon. (o.1%) Just do water changes without readding the salt until you are at that level. A 2/3 water change would do it.

I apologize for putting you through the process of adding the salt, just to remove it, but I didn't realize what shape the fish was in.. He was given the meds for a good 3-4 days right? And survived. It appears that the meds got rid of the ich, but left him extremely damaged and weak. I think right now we need to give the fish the best environment possible.

Let's try the 0.1% salt, and some dark and quiet like I said before.. You can peak under the towel to check on him a few times. If you see more spots start, then you will need to add the salt back up to 0.3% again.

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Guest fishyfishyfish

Righto will do - the fins seem to be growing back but i couldnt say for definite, the poor thing is bouncing off the sides of the tank it has no coordination whatsoever and it can't stay upright it seems to spin when swimming.

I know this isn't helped by 2/3 of the fins are gone but i can't help feeling i'm prolonging it's suffering

Thanks for the help ill keep posted

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