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Guest Yellow

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Guest Yellow

Hey, I have a few questions about my fantail goldfish.

I had him in a one gallon fish bowl for about a month and just today switched him into a 5 gallon. While he was in the fishbowl, I would see him swim on the bottom of the bowl sideways, which I believe is called flashing? I don't really know how to check for parasites or anything, and I don't think he's been doing it in the 5 gallon tank anymore, but I guess I can't really tell since he's only been in there for three or four hours.

Also, I was wondering if I'm allowed to put another goldfish into the tank with him. Currently my fish is an inch long (not including the tail). If I was allowed to get another one, would it be safe to put a black Moor in with my fish? I heard that you can't put a black moor in a tank with a fish with better eye sight, and I have plastic plants in my tanks so would they damage the moor's eyes?

After I transfered the fantail into the 5 gallon tank, I noticed that on his back fins, there was this tiny white spots in a line on the back fin on my goldfish. Is it ick? I havn't treated the bowl or tank before so it is possible. And I think I might have damaged the fish's fins while transfering with the fishnet, because on the back fin there was one small part that was ripped. It was going along the white line so I suppose the white dot line could be damage I did to the fish.

Thanks if you're answering or moving the thread. :)

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  • Regular Member

Hi! I'm afraid I'm still quite new to keeping goldfish myself and I can't help with any sort of diagnosis in regards to flashing or ich without more information (For that the disease section might be of more help). As for adding another fish, I wouldn't risk it. I'm sure you know by now that the minimum for goldfish is 10 gallons per fish, so you are probably planning to upgrade the tank as your fish grows, right? If you want to add another fish, when you do upgrade buy a 20 gallon (more if you want more than two fish) and then add another fish. Even though your fish is small now, he will grow much bigger.

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  • Regular Member

:welcome

I'm glad that you moved your fish out of the bowl. Great first move!

But, no, you can't add another fish in only a 5 gallon tank. This 5 gallon is okay for your one small goldy for a while, but I'd be making plans to upgrade very soon. You need to plan on 10 gallons for just that one, and if you want to add a friend, 20 gallons. It's a basic rule that you allow 10 gallons of water per one goldfish, no matter how small. Slight overstocking can be dealt with, but I am not going to recommend it for a beginner. Learn the basics first and learn how to get everything right according to the rules and then you can "fudge" them once you know what you're doing.

Also, you need to make sure to get a good sized filter. When filters come with tank setups, or by the box/manufacturer's recommendations, these "standards" are for tropicals. Goldfish need a lot more filtration than tropicals. So, the rule for goldfish is that the filter move 10 times the water per hour as the size of the tank. So, for a 5 gallon tank, you need a 50 gph filter. 10 gallon, a 100 gph filter and 20 gallon, a 200 gph filter.

It's pretty much a given that ALL fish come home from the store with flukes and some type of bacterial infection, so the rule is to quarantine all new fish; they never go into the main tank with other established fish right away, but as you don't have any other fish, you can do your quarantine in your main tank. You treat with aquarium salt and prazi for a very minimum of 2 weeks and, to be safe, a month. Aquarium salt is the easiest to dissolve, but you can use other salts such as rock salt, sea salt, pickling salt, kosher salt, etc. You just can't use table salt or anything that has been iodized. Adding salt is usually referred to in volume, i.e, 0.1%, 0.2%, 0.3%. 0.1%=1 tsp of salt per gallon of water, 0.2%=2 tsp of salt per gallon of water, 0.3%=3 tsp of salt per gallon of water. You start with 0.1%, then after 12 hours, bring it up to 0.2%, then after another 12 hours, bring it up to 0.3%. Also remember that, when you do water changes, you're removing the salt as well as the water. So, if you remove 50% of the water, you've also removed 50% of the salt, so you'd need to add back in 50% of the salt at the volume you're at. So, if you have a 5 gallon tank at 0.3% salt, that's 15 tsps of salt. You removed 50% of that, or 7 1/2 tsps salt, so you'd need to add back in 7 1/2 tsps of salt. As it doesn't sound like your fish are suffering from any type of serious bacterial infection, I'd just go with 0.1% for a month.

As for the prazi, the best choice is Hikari Prazi Pro. Dose this according to directions. It's hard to overdose prazi, so don't worry about that too much. Definitely do one dose, but, if your fish still appear like they're flashing, you can re-dose after a 3-5 day waiting period, according to directions. You can't usually mix medications, but you can mix salt and prazi. Don't be alarmed if, after adding prazi, your fish appear to "freak out" a little. As the flukes are dying, they struggle and this makes it a little uncomfortable for the fish, but the fish are fine. As long as you're ordering from Goldfish Connection, you might want to consider buying some MediGold. This is an excellent medicated food that goes beyond what other medicated foods can do. It's always wise to have this on hand in the event of an emergency. When a fish has an internal bacterial infection, waiting for the food to ship can waste precious treatment time. Hopefully you won't need it, but as the saying goes, "better safe than sorry!"

You are correct about the moor and its eyes. They do have a more difficult time seeing, so they won't get food as easily as a fancy with normal eyes and there's no way that any fancy can compete with a single tail goldfish, so all of these different groups of fish should be kept separate, unless you want to hand feed the moor to make sure it gets enough to eat. Also, yes, you cannot have any least bit sharp objects in the tank with moors. Even what seems like soft, artificial plants.

It's not likely that the white spots in a straight line on the fin are ich as ich appears randomly all over the body, not in straight lines.

If a healthy fish in healthy water tears a fin, it will heal very quickly. My ryukin tore his caudal fin all the way down, but it healed completely in less than 10 days. He put a small tear in his dorsal fin and it completely healed in less than 7 days.

In addition to buying a larger tank and filter, salt and prazi, there are other things you will need to buy and learn.

The first rule is, never listen to advice that you get from the stores, especially the chain stores. The large majority of these people have very little knowledge about fish at all, and even if they do, rarely does that knowledge include goldfish.

Also, you need drop test kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph. You also need to buy a dechlorinator if you aren't using one now. I like NovAqua+, but you'll find as many people liking all sorts of different things as there are products to use. A new tank goes through a period called "cycling," also referred to as the "Nitrogen Cycle," where certain beneficial bacteria build up that help break down the deadly ammonia produced by fish waste and food left in the water. Cycling can take anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 weeks. During this time, you need to test your water every day (your readings should stay as close to 0 as possible) and do large daily temperature matched dechlorinated water changes to keep the ammonia down. At least 50%, but even as much as 90%. Read up on this article. It will help you understand the Nitrogen Cycle. Kokos Cycle of the Tank. Keeping the water as pristine as possible always, but especially during cycling and any sick period, is the best way to ensure a fish's health.

Good luck and keep in touch with us! We like to hear how things are going! And we also like pictures... :D:exactly

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Guest Yellow

Okay, today I don't seem to see the white anymore, but of course the rip is there.

Er... I have an undergravel filter, but I've heard one place that it's bad, and I heard from another place that it's good. Do you recomend me to change it? I'm not exactly sure how it works, so I can't tell if it's bad.

When I went on vacation, me and my siblings picked up some rocks from Lake Michigan. I boiled them for 5 minutes then dropped it into the tank. I just read that certain rocks can't be put into the tank, but I can't tell what kind of rocks they are so I can't check. Should I just take them out of the tank to be sure?

Also... do fish get lonely? :3

Sorry about the tons of questions. I have no one else to ask except google.

Edited by Yellow
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Guest Isilme

The fact that you boiled the rocks is a really good thing. To check if the rocks are suitable for the aquarium, you should drop some drops of vinegar on the dry (!) stone. If it starts to dissolve, it means that it is a calcium-based rock and will dissolve in your tank water and alter your ph. If it dissolves because of the vinegar it's not suitable.

I don't think fish really get lonely, but having a companion is always nice.

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Guest Isilme

I forget to mention: after the test with vinegar, you should put the rocks in a bucket with water for one week so all the acids and other filth can dissolve. After this you should again boil them and then they're ready for the tank :) (it seems a lot of work, but natural stones are so beautiful!).

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  • Regular Member

Glad you're no longer seeing the white, but I still would suggest the salt and prazi. This is a standard treatment we do with all of our new fish. Always.

I have an undergravel filter and I have had great success with it, BUT I would never suggest anyone use one, especially a beginner, unless they completely, fully understand HOW to use them. They are a disaster if not used properly. I just wrote up some info in my blog on this. Here is what I wrote:

The trick to using UGs successfully is in the gravel. You cannot use the standard gravel sold at most stores. You must use a very, very fine gravel; almost like a coarse sand, measuring about 1mm, at a good 2+ inches deep. When you use a thick layer of very fine gravel, it packs so tightly together that all of the poop and gunk just sits on top of the gravel. Nothing falls through under the UG. Also, good, faithful, thorough vacuuming at every water change is a must. And powerheads are a must too. The standard uptake tube/air pump thing is for the birds. Plus, those powerheads make fabulous circulation and aeration! It's a lot of extra work, but I'm willing to do it. Another plus with this fine of gravel, is that the little rooters won't get it caught in their mouths.

As I said, you cannot use the standard gravel or larger rocks with UGs. All the gunk falls underneath and invites bad bacterias to form which can cause your fish to get very sick. And you cannot use sand. Sand is very deadly to goldfishes' gills. Although I have not used this product, it looks like it might be similar to what I'm talking about. Caribsea Super Natural Gravel

And you must vacuum every inch of the gravel with every water change. And that means taking out all of the decorations every time. You cannot just vacuum around them, because they are usually where the most gunk collects.

All of this said, I also have two 10 gallon qt tanks that are bare bottom, which is what most people here advocate. I have to say that those tanks are such a blessing to take care of! They are so easy. The water changes are done so fast. Bare bottom sure does make things easier.

I honestly believe that some goldies get very lonely without a friend. I have had some who seemed to go into a very deep depression at the loss of their friend, but then I have had others who didn't seem to mind being on their own. Kinda like humans I guess!

Finally, don't ever be afraid of asking questions! That's how you learn and we want everyone who comes here to be the most imformed they can be! We love answering your questions and we're glad you're here!

Edited by Lynda Von G
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Guest Yellow

I'll try to change the gravel next time I clean the tank and I'll buy some if I see it. The gravel should be 1 millimeter wide?

Two more question for right now. My fantail, named Zacki (X3 I forgot to mention it earlier) keeps gulping at the surface of the water. I can't understand why, he doesn't share his tank with any other fish and the water is circulating. It also seems like he's only gulping at bubbles and only when I play with him.

Also I was wondering if I got another fantail that is one inch long too, can I keep them in the tank until they get bigger, then upgrade it when they get too big for their tank?

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Like Lynda mentioned, you should get a water testing kit (drop tests). Until you know the readings of your water, it will be very difficult for you to keep your fish healthy. Gasping at the surface can be caused by a number of things.

Do you have an airstone in the tank, or something that makes bubbles?

I would not recommend putting any new fish in your tank. Your tank is quite small already, and new fish can bring parasites, etc. You should work on getting a good setup before adding any new fish.

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  • Regular Member
Also I was wondering if I got another fantail that is one inch long too, can I keep them in the tank until they get bigger, then upgrade it when they get too big for their tank?

I would not recommend you getting another fish right now.. it is only asking for trouble.I'll explain ;)

Your tank is still very new. New tanks need to do something called cycling. Fish produce a waste material called ammonia. It is VERY bad for the fish and it builds up very quickly. In a new tank it can build up SOO fast that it will make your fish very sick or even die.

Right now you do not have a water testing kit. I see that Lynda suggested you get one, and I agree! They are REALLY important! One of the most important things you need right now.. If I were you I would BEG your parents for one of them :) This will tell you how much ammonia is in your water, and also other important readings.

Now, back to the cycle. Once you've had a tank for a while, GOOD bacteria start to grow on your filter and on the things inside your filter. (Those cartriges, stuff like that). These bactiera change the bad ammonia into something called nitrite, which is also bad for your fish. THEN a second type of good bacteria grow, which changes the nitrites into something called NitRATE. These are not as harmful. Weekly water changes of approx 50% will keep these in a safe range for your fish. BUT right now, these bacteria haven't had a chance to form all the way. So your ammonia and nitrite are probably really high!!! They are most likely making your fish sick. It can take MONTHS for the bacteria to fully grow and be enough to make sure your tank is free from ammonia and nitrites.

Right now, the most important thing to do is to give your fish a 100% water change. Fresh water, that is treated with a dechlorinator, and matched for temperature. Then you are going to need to do water changes every single day, for a while to keep those bad levels down. (Once you get a test kit you will be able to tell better how much your water changes need to be. For now I would do at LEAST 50% each day). It seems like a lot, but it really is needed.

Back to your original question about getting a second fish. Right now, in your uncycled tank, just that ONE fish is producing too much waste. Adding a second fish will just make the water TWICE as bad... They won't be able to survive. Even in a cycled tank it is just asking for trouble to put TWO fish in a 5 gallon. It can be bad to have ONE fish in a 5 gallon.. I have one fish in a 5 gallon for NOW, and I am getting a ten gallon ready to move her into. It is too hard to keep the water in there safe, and I am very very good about my water changes.

I would stick with the one fish for now. Work on getting the supplies you need, and work on changing the water each and every day..

One more thing you want to remember. Every time you get a new fish it can carry disease. You only have ONE tank right now. So you have no place to put the second fish. If you were to plop a second fish in with your first, any disease it has can spread. This happened to me. I bought ONE extra fish, added it to the tank, and ALL 6 of my fish ended up dead. I don't want to scare you, but I want you to know how serious it can be.

Let us know how the water change goes. I think that is the BEST thing you can do right now. Good luck with your fish :D

(Just saw your post Leslie.. : ) Basically said the same thing just longer Haha)

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I have to agree under gravel filters are not for the beginner....they take alot of work

I have 6 tanks (downgraded form 9) 2 of these are large 4 foot long tanks. 1 have an under gravel filter in one of my large tanks but I also use an internal and HOB filter aswell for security.

You really need to maintain the gravel as it is basically the *filter* and water quality is a MUST.

In any tank ....water quality is the first priority but in a tank with an under gravel filter then more so you need to really take extra care

Test kits are a given....no one can keep goldies for the best of their health and potential without them.

As an experienced fish keeper I have 2 11inch fish ..one oranda, one blackmore (yup they big!!) in 40 gal and I still struggle with that undergravel filter even though the tank is considered understocked but the fish are large.

If I was you I would not add any more fish, work on what you have, get him in a great home and happy first, then he is happy and will grow.

Later you can always upgrade the tank to a larger one if you want him to have a friend :)

Hope that helps :)

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Guest Yellow

Uh... Right now, I'm kind of low on money, like $40. I was wondering what should I get? I know I should get a water test kit (Which costs how much?) but I'm not sure if it's more expensive to buy a gravel vacume and smaller gravel and stuff or just buying a normal filter and monthly costs of refill.

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Guest Orandaa

A test kit will run you about $15.

I'd get a filter. A gravel vaccuum isnt an absolute necessity, it's just handy to have. Although with your tank being so small you can easily clean the gravel yourself.

An AquaClear 10 Filter shouldn't cost you any more than $25, and there's your $40 :)

Oh, and most filters come with all the layers to put in them, so it's not necessary to buy extras right away.

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