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Elvis Is Still Getting Worse


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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 10

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 8.2 KH=122 according to water department

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

[*]Water temperature? 82

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 12 gal tank w/10 gal running

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? It's an all in one Eclipse

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? when testing requires, usually every 4 to 5 days, between 50% and 80%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 comet, 5 and a half inches 10 years old

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aquanova and Amquel+ every change

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari Gold, peas, broccoli, carrots, dried shrimp 2x day small pinch in morning of Hikari, evenings one of the extras, again small portions

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? no

[*]Any medications added to the tank? no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? red blotches, dark deep red gills, lump under chin that's turning black, lost color.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? dolphin head jumping, flashing at surface, just started darting.

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/ebonezum/Now/ This has about 24 photos on it. I resized a few for here.

001-1.jpg02-1.jpg

020-1.jpg018-1.jpg

01-1.jpg011-1.jpg

07-1.jpg

I also found these crystals at the bottom of his tank today during the w/c and photo session. They look like sesame seeds, just splintered my thumb nail when I pressed down to see if it would break apart. There is Nothing in his tank except for the moss ball and that floats. What are they?

He had suffered a short trAte bump after his runny poo episode. The last 5 or 6 days have been fine and perfect. Today his trAtes reached 20 so I did an w/c. Other than that, his top fin is kept down mostly now except when he thinks I am going to feed him, and he still eats like a pig. ::knocking on wood:: And in a few of the pics on the link above, show the top of his head, (where his horns would be, the lil' devil) is very deep dark red.

The dolphin head jumping is when he lifts half of his body completely out of the water like he is trying to reach the light. This started a couple of weeks ago. Never did it before. He does it over and over and over.

Am I being silly or is there something wrong?

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I'm not qualified to say, but this looks and sounds very similar to my goldfish's recent case of flukes - apart from the lump under the chin - which is treatable. I'm sure someone will be along soon to give you instructions in a bit, and I hope he gets well soon, good luck!

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ohh poor Elvis :(

do you have salt in the tank ?? do you have lots of O2 82 is pretty warm and the water at that temp will hold less o2..I have seen Crystals in my tank before ..I assumed they were from the type of salt I used that just did not dissolve

No salt. He had salt up to a couple of weeks ago, for over 6 weeks. Trinket had me remove it. There is only 10 gal in a 12 gal so the water will fall heavy. It's almost 2 inches below the line.

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We're really in kind of a shortage of Mods and experts here. I know they have their own lives and we need to give that to them, but it kinda makes me feel.... helpless.... because I don't know what to say or do. I'm stuck here Roni! I wish I knew what to say! I know you've tried EVERYTHING and this is just so past most all of us here! Hopefully we'll find us a Mod soon! My fingers are crossed for you and Elvis and I hope this thing gets figured out!

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We're really in kind of a shortage of Mods and experts here. I know they have their own lives and we need to give that to them, but it kinda makes me feel.... helpless.... because I don't know what to say or do. I'm stuck here Roni! I wish I knew what to say! I know you've tried EVERYTHING and this is just so past most all of us here! Hopefully we'll find us a Mod soon! My fingers are crossed for you and Elvis and I hope this thing gets figured out!

I know I feel sooo terrible. I keep reading threads from different people, including yours Roni and I have absolutely nothing to offer other than saying "I hope things get better". It's harder when it's people you "know" better on here too.. Again, just popping in to say that I am watching, and hoping, and keeping everything crossed. Toes fingers. I'll even cross my boobs if you think it will help... LOL For real, hang in there. (like my boobs, that's why I am able to cross them LMAO) I am sorry things have been so rough lately with all of your fish..

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do you have an air pump and stone hun??

:bingo:

Water at 82 is HOT!! Way hot. This is the conundrum: As temperature rises, (with a sharp increase above 75) the capacity of water to carry dissolved oxygen decreases AND at the very same time, the fishes metabolism speeds up with the heat and demands MUCH more dissolved oxygen.

Fish will first gasp at the surface and later jump for air literally. You need to try get that temperature down and add more bubbles/splash. Your fish is larger and older - so he needs extra!!!

You have treated for flukes. You have taken this fish through a cycle. He has had some rough times in the past at one point and these red spots are damage from that. A fishes behavior is usually a more telling indication of disease than appearance. The red spots, the damaged gills are history. You need to get him better via a sustained long period of good water, good nutrition and masses of aeration in this warmer weather.

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do you have an air pump and stone hun??

:bingo:

Water at 82 is HOT!! Way hot. This is the conundrum: As temperature rises, (with a sharp increase above 75) the capacity of water to carry dissolved oxygen decreases AND at the very same time, the fishes metabolism speeds up with the heat and demands MUCH more dissolved oxygen.

Fish will first gasp at the surface and later jump for air literally. You need to try get that temperature down and add more bubbles/splash. Your fish is larger and older - so he needs extra!!!

You have treated for flukes. You have taken this fish through a cycle. He has had some rough times in the past at one point and these red spots are damage from that. A fishes behavior is usually a more telling indication of disease than appearance. The red spots, the damaged gills are history. You need to get him better via a sustained long period of good water, good nutrition and masses of aeration in this warmer weather.

The cycle only bumped for about a week, after that everything went back to normal. I can't lower the temp. That's why the water is so low, it make a pretty deep drop now. It pushes him to the floor of the tank when he swims under it. I have 4 cats that would have him for dinner in a minute if I took off the lid and used a fan. I posted two short videos on the same link as above that show him leaping from the water and doing the dolphin thingy. Here's the link again. http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll202/ebonezum/Now/

My only other option would be to put him in the 38 gal. I pp'ed it yesterday and today it's filled with fresh water. I have a 5 inch airstone at one end and a 330 gph filter at the other. I haven't started the fishless cycle yet, should I just put him in there? With him being only 5+ inches, the new cycle shouldn't bother him too much should it?

Is the warm temp also turning that lump on his chin black? The heat is making the red blotches? Theu have been getting bigger and spreading the last couple of weeks. Do you think his gills look ok? Am I just being a overly worried momma? Why is his top fin being held down now except when he is excited? Why hasn't his poo gone back to normal? It's still all white and stringy. It does have food occasionally, but normally it just looks like a ugly white worm. Am I feeding him a proper diet? Should I go ahead and do one more anti bacterial course just to be on the safe side? And lastly, what are those crystals I found on the bottom of his tank? (see pic on post #1)

I just feel so dang helpless and when he jumps out of the water and crashes into the side of the tank, sometimes I swear he is trying to commit suicide. I want to make him better, but it seems like there is nothing I can do. I feel so useless.

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Actually, here's a direct link to one of your videos. Video

Roni, could you maybe get some window screening to put over the tank and then put a fan over that? Or, what I've done, not to keep out cats, as I have none, but just to stop splashing from the filters, is I removed my glass top, had a thick piece of plexiglass cut to fit the top of my tank, but then left an opening just big enough for the fan to blow into. I laid the fan flat down on the tank top, like it fell over, over that opening and taped it down with packing tape so that the vibration wouldn't move it around or cause it to fall in the water. Looks like hades, but works great! If the fan totally covered the cutout part and the fan was taped down, the cats couldn't get in....right, could they? But, at 82 degrees, you probably should put on the thinking cap cuz he probably is trying to commit suicide, more actually, trying to escape from a suicidal situation and you could have Boiled Elvis.

You're doing daily changes anyway on your 20(?) gallon, aren't you, so if you just transferred everything over from that one to the new one you'd basically have Elvis in the same stuff he's in now, but just with more water, which should cycle pretty fast I'd think. Just put in all the water from the old one, add some more and just sit the filter media right in the tank if you can't stuff it in the new filter or run the old filter along with the new one for a while. I say go for the gold!

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I agree. Go for the gold :D !

Roni sweetheart, I looked at the video and Fishie looks like he has just outgrown his home- the big tank is perfect now and as Lynda says you can transfer his own filter into that (the more filters the better) and transfer the cycle intact probably- no bumps ahead :) That's definitely what I'd do. the heat alone will make him agitated like this, breathless, jumpy and also aggravate any kind of residual health problems.

Get him into the bigger space, freedom to roam and strut. He is an active fish with bags of personality and he will thrive in the larger space with the airwand and extra filter splash I promise you.

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Ok. I didn't want to just go and do that tho I thought it might be a good idea too. I wanted to make sure I wasn't messing things up again. He will be his new home shortly. I'll post again in a few days and see let you all know how he's doing.

Thanx again. I love you guys!!!!!! : :hug :: Blowing kisses to you all.

BTW, I still want to know what those crystals were I found in his tank. Anyone with an idea?

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Ok. I didn't want to just go and do that tho I thought it might be a good idea too. I wanted to make sure I wasn't messing things up again. He will be his new home shortly. I'll post again in a few days and see let you all know how he's doing.

Thanx again. I love you guys!!!!!! : :hug :: Blowing kisses to you all.

BTW, I still want to know what those crystals were I found in his tank. Anyone with an idea?

I'm still half dead from the our friends 51st Birthday party last night. I am one of those people that if I drink late at night, I can't sleep. At 2:30 this morning I had to take a sleep aid just to get some sleep. Tho JC let me sleep in I only got about 6 hours sleep so I am running on 1/2 of the half a brain I usually work with anyway. :)

What is the best way to take Elvis from the 82 temp tank to the 76 temp tank?

There is a little bit of PP still in the 38 gal. Will this hurt? Should I do a 100% and make sure no PP is in there?

SHould I keep it 100% bare for now and add the plants and stuff later, or should I have all that set up before he goes in?

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Ok. I didn't want to just go and do that tho I thought it might be a good idea too. I wanted to make sure I wasn't messing things up again. He will be his new home shortly. I'll post again in a few days and see let you all know how he's doing.

Thanx again. I love you guys!!!!!! : :hug :: Blowing kisses to you all.

BTW, I still want to know what those crystals were I found in his tank. Anyone with an idea?

I'm still half dead from the our friends 51st Birthday party last night. I am one of those people that if I drink late at night, I can't sleep. At 2:30 this morning I had to take a sleep aid just to get some sleep. Tho JC let me sleep in I only got about 6 hours sleep so I am running on 1/2 of the half a brain I usually work with anyway. :)

What is the best way to take Elvis from the 82 temp tank to the 76 temp tank?

There is a little bit of PP still in the 38 gal. Will this hurt? Should I do a 100% and make sure no PP is in there?

SHould I keep it 100% bare for now and add the plants and stuff later, or should I have all that set up before he goes in?

Another add-on. I had to drain the 38 completely because I decided to move it. It was sitting against the west wall in front of the window. (so. Ca. probably hottest wall.) By using several thermometers around the room, I found the coolest spot was on the northeast corner of the livingroom. The airconditioning hits right there too, so that's where I moved it to. So no more PP in the water. I also decided to leave it bare and just slowly add in what I want as I do water changes, so I don't need that question answered either. Just the crystal question and How do I move Elvis safely to a much cooler tank? I do have large baggies so I guess I could float him for a while, but how long would it take for the water to adjust temps?

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You'll need to float him yes. If you have a bag large enough as you say. Water is heavy and those bags soon get very heavy but they do leave your hands free once you have him in there and the bag tied. Leave him floating there for about 15 minutes and then open the bag and slowly introduce some of the new water.

Be safe and check pH are approx the same (within 2 points) in both tanks first.

Any larger difference in pH will need much longer time acclimate...temperature diff at levels you say should be okay as described.

I usually use a plastic bowl and fill it with the old tank water, add fish and hold the bowl in the new tank slowly letting tiny amounts of the old water into the new tank while letting tiny amounts of the new water in. But you need steady hands and at least 10 mins with nothing else to do- to do this.

You can add tank decor later.

The crystals looked like salt maybe. Do you have limestone or chalky water? Over time calcium deposits in water can make grains.

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You'll need to float him yes. If you have a bag large enough as you say. Water is heavy and those bags soon get very heavy but they do leave your hands free once you have him in there and the bag tied. Leave him floating there for about 15 minutes and then open the bag and slowly introduce some of the new water.

Be safe and check pH are approx the same (within 2 points) in both tanks first.

Any larger difference in pH will need much longer time acclimate...temperature diff at levels you say should be okay as described.

I usually use a plastic bowl and fill it with the old tank water, add fish and hold the bowl in the new tank slowly letting tiny amounts of the old water into the new tank while letting tiny amounts of the new water in. But you need steady hands and at least 10 mins with nothing else to do- to do this.

You can add tank decor later.

The crystals looked like salt maybe. Do you have limestone or chalky water? Over time calcium deposits in water can make grains.

Ok, that does explain the crystals perfectly. :D We have very hard water here. Heavy lime and calcium. They look just like sesame seeds in shape. How weird.

I have Gallon size ziploc baggies. I can use that or rinse out the large bag I got from the LFS with my plants in them and use that. Though I think the ziploc would be safer since the lfs bag might have bacteria dried inside of them.

Thanks Trinket, I'm off to check the PH now.

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Elvis went into the new tank fully at 6:20 pm my time, almost 1 and a half hours ago. Within 5 minutes he started the dolphin dance again and now he is jumping out the water. Nothing has changed except that now he has a longer run before jumping. He leaping high enough that he is banging the lid and making it lift open. The temp is 76 degrees, all brand new water.... I don't understand. He is leaping so hard into the side wall I am terrified he is going to hurt himself. What can I do?

I would have let you know earlier, but my modem went down and I just got it back up and running.

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Elvis went into the new tank fully at 6:20 pm my time, almost 1 and a half hours ago. Within 5 minutes he started the dolphin dance again and now he is jumping out the water. Nothing has changed except that now he has a longer run before jumping. He leaping high enough that he is banging the lid and making it lift open. The temp is 76 degrees, all brand new water.... I don't understand. He is leaping so hard into the side wall I am terrified he is going to hurt himself. What can I do?

I would have let you know earlier, but my modem went down and I just got it back up and running.

I'm freaking... he is hitting the lid so hard and the wall so hard. He's already knocked off some scales from his side from trying to leap out of the hole where the filter is. I covered it with a tea towel, but I'm so scared for him. :(

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Elvis went into the new tank fully at 6:20 pm my time, almost 1 and a half hours ago. Within 5 minutes he started the dolphin dance again and now he is jumping out the water. Nothing has changed except that now he has a longer run before jumping. He leaping high enough that he is banging the lid and making it lift open. The temp is 76 degrees, all brand new water.... I don't understand. He is leaping so hard into the side wall I am terrified he is going to hurt himself. What can I do?

I would have let you know earlier, but my modem went down and I just got it back up and running.

I'm freaking... he is hitting the lid so hard and the wall so hard. He's already knocked off some scales from his side from trying to leap out of the hole where the filter is. I covered it with a tea towel, but I'm so scared for him. :(

I just lowered the water in the tank by almost 2" so he can't reach the lid. It doesn't seem to stop him from trying tho. He is still hitting the wall pretty hard. All I can think of is that maybe the amquel+ or the novaqua has changed. They seem to have developed a strong smell, or maybe they always smelled and I just never noticed it before. I am searching my brain for anything that could be causing this, but I am at a total loss.

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hmm roni, i read your thread, and i can't think of anything since you already moved him into the bigger tank.

can you check your plugs and such to make sure there isn't any way a current is getting into your tank?

i'll have to do more searching to see what might cause a goldfish to leap like that. :(

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hmm roni, i read your thread, and i can't think of anything since you already moved him into the bigger tank.

can you check your plugs and such to make sure there isn't any way a current is getting into your tank?

i'll have to do more searching to see what might cause a goldfish to leap like that. :(

Thanx Tinkokeshi. I checked. everything is plugged in correctly, and I don't have a heater plugged in or anything... like I said in my pm, I'm at a loss as to what could be causing this too. He only started doing it a few weeks ago. It started out as an occasional thing and now it's almost constant and it seems like he is going to kill himself if he doesn't stop. I have been racking my brain and I know Trinket has too. He's finally settled down and is sleeping at the floor of the tank right now. I am not quite so panicky now that he has stopped for the night, but I know as soon as it starts getting light outside he's going to start up again.

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Roni~ just a thought do you need the light on the tank, presumably the hood too? It makes the water heat up an awful lot you see. Over time those electric lights are very efficient heaters on water. The one tank I use them on the water is always 5 degrees higher than my other window tanks. I still think fishie doesn't like the hot water. Goldish are cold water fish. Especially commons and comets. I can't imagine parasites because you treated intensively with prazi and salt..and anyway jumping fish carrying parasites will have their mouths wide open.

I think you gotta turn off that light and look at a net cover not ahood (because of your cats)..something that has big airholes so you can fan the water surface.

Have you got that airpump on full? Splash at the surface?- disssolved oxygen is needed in triple amounts at these temps. Hes jumping for air I still think, so increasing air below water level will help a lot.

The other thing that will have a fish jump is any resident irritants in the water (chlorine and chloramines especially but also leeching plastic etc). pH thats not stable..have a think..failing these he may have acclimated now a bit and calm down. Let us know.

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I just wanted to say good luck to you and I really hope Elvis improves for you. Also, I've found those white things in my goldfish tanks and thought they were just discarded teeth. I've read goldfish lose their teeth and I've only found these white things in my goldfish tanks and the size seems to be relative to the fish. I also have really hard water and wonder if the rate at which my fish lose teeth is related to the high mineral content of the water. Maybe they grow new ones faster? I dunno, but I just wanted to lend my support!

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Roni~ just a thought do you need the light on the tank, presumably the hood too? It makes the water heat up an awful lot you see. Over time those electric lights are very efficient heaters on water. The one tank I use them on the water is always 5 degrees higher than my other window tanks. I still think fishie doesn't like the hot water. Goldish are cold water fish. Especially commons and comets. I can't imagine parasites because you treated intensively with prazi and salt..and anyway jumping fish carrying parasites will have their mouths wide open.

I think you gotta turn off that light and look at a net cover not ahood (because of your cats)..something that has big airholes so you can fan the water surface.

Have you got that airpump on full? Splash at the surface?- disssolved oxygen is needed in triple amounts at these temps. Hes jumping for air I still think, so increasing air below water level will help a lot.

The other thing that will have a fish jump is any resident irritants in the water (chlorine and chloramines especially but also leeching plastic etc). pH thats not stable..have a think..failing these he may have acclimated now a bit and calm down. Let us know.

I thought about the light too. So I figured last night after I shut it off, that I would leave it off period and see how he did. Doesn't make a difference, even with the light off he is doing it again this morning. I lowered the level of the water almost two inches last night, but this morning I can still hear him hitting the hood when he leaps. I flinch every time I hear it. (I'm about to increase that to about 3 or 4 inches now) JC says he looks like a salmon trying to get up the falls. He isn't jumping or lifting just at the filter, he is doing it all over the tank.

Water temp has rose to 78, but that about it. There is absolutely nothing in his tank except the airstone and his algae ball. I had the tank up and running with the stone almost 3 full days before he went in it, and the water was changed everyday. Day 1 was PP, day 2 was 99% fresh because of the inch or so water left in when I emptied the PP out. Yesterday Elvis went into the tank at 6:20 pm, that same morning I had emptied it 100%, dried it out to get all PP residue out then filled it and added the Amquel+ and the Novaqua and let it perk for about 8 hours before Elvis went in. The PH was exactly the same in both tanks.

I don't know whether he damaged it while jumping or what, but his gill on his left side is becoming ragged looking when I checked him this morning. The pic I had was his right side, that's still dark, but not rough edged like the left. He was yawning a bit before I transfered him, and I can see he still is occasionally.

I really want to begin him on the anti bacterial food again. His poo is still horrid, (even in his old tank) and his coloring is fading on the body which makes the red blotches all over him even more pronounced. His chest is rounded while his tummy is flat and slightly ?sunken? Maybe it just looks sunken because of the roundness of his chest. His anal vent is large and very dark, but this may be normal, I don't know. I know you have advised not to treat without reason, and you told me not to so I haven't. I just keep thinking about how many times I have been on antibiotics for 10 days, went off, and two or three days later my doc is putting me on for a second dose because the infection started up again. I remember after my hand surgery last year, I was on antibiotics for a full month because we couldn't get rid of the infection in the surgery area of my hand.

I know I am not Elvis, and that I have a number of health reasons why I don't heal quickly or shake infections very easily, but could this be a possibility for Elvis? Maybe the one 10 day dosing wasn't enough to fully eradicate whatever infection he had in his gills. I keep coming back to the fact that the lump has turned so black when before it was translucent white for months. His erractic behavior started shortly after the lump started to turn dark. The front of the lump has smoothed out again and it's just pointed at the back like it was back in June. Also, I had noticed a couple weeks back that his left eye was more dilated than his right. I think I mentioned that in one of the previous threads, tho I can't remember now if I did or was planning on it and never followed thru.

I have racked my brain for some reason why he is doing this and I am completely and totally lost. I was on the internet last night until well after midnight searching for answers and found none. I was up at 4 am and he was quiet and on the floor of the tank. As soon as it began to turn light outside, he was at it again even with the light off.

With the water level lowered, the 330 filter is creating double falls and add to that the 5 inch airstone, the surface looks very agitated across the whole tank. Heavy bubbles throughout the water, I don't know how much more oxygen I can get into the tank.

I haven't fed him yet today, and I'm going to hold off until I hear from you about the med food. I just can't think of anything else to try. I don't think it's external parasites. His slime coat is completely normal. Maybe internal, but I truely think it's bacterial in nature. I am not qualified to make that decision tho, and have no idea what it could be, I am just going off my own experiences with myself and infections. I know you are doing everything you can. I am very, very, grateful... I am just so scared I'm going to lose him to whatever is going on.

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