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I ordered some PP from a local koi store and they finally got it in. Not in crystal form but in liquid form, I believe she said a 4% solution. Will this work to PP my plants and python? I am only getting 16 oz. will this be enough?

The have the crystals on ubuyebay, but I am not sure if they are the 99.5% pure or the 85% with additives. What is the difference and will the 85 work or should I stay away from it?

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Hi Roni,

I'm pretty sure I saw a PP solution at the other big pet store that ends with mart....It was already mixed for dipping plants and fairly inexpensive (a couple of dollars). That should help if you need a little bit more.

Amy

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Hi Roni,

I'm not sure about in the US, but here in Belgium we can get PP from the pharmacists/apothecary in (chemically) pure form, so in theory that's ideal for treating your tank equipment (it's a bit harder to dose, so maybe not ideal for treating your fish), and a plus: it's rather cheap compared to the pet store equivalent.

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Ok, I picked up the liquid. It's by Kordon, and it's called Pond Permoxyn. Organic Oxidizer, Treatment and Dip. PP 3.84% Solution.

On the back it says, "useful in fresh water as a control of diseases caused by monogenetic trematodes (flukes), Angulus (fish lice) and Lernaea (anchorworms) infecting pond fishes. Can be used to inactivate treatments such as Formalin3, rid ich, amquel etc. Novaqua and Amquel can be used 24 hours after treatment.

Directions: To improve water quality by oxidation of dissolved and suspended organic materials, add 1-2/3 fl. oz. per 100 gallons, or 1 capful per 8 gal, both producing a concentration of 5 mg/L of PP. This dosage is safe for biological filtration. The water being treated will change from purple to brown to colorless. A partial water change is recommended after treatment. As a disease treatment, add 1 tsp per 5 gal. (this equals 10 mg/L PP) Dip fish for no longer than 30 minutes. May be toxic to some species of algae, aquatic plants and invertebrates.

The web address for more info is http://petsforum.com/novalek/.

My questions....

How much do I need to use to disinfect the live plants in a 1 gal tank? How much to disinfect the python hoses in a 2-1/3 gal bucket?

I want the hoses safe for refill tank purposes, I already have a syphon that I connect to the garden hose for water removal.

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You can't really overdose for the python. For the crystals, most people reccomend adding enough so the water is a nice deepish purple. Soak the python for 5 hours then deactivate the PP with either hydrogen peroxide, or any water dechlorinator till the water is brown and not purple any more. Then all you have to do is rinse it out. By deactivating the PP first there is no risk of leftovers causing problems with your fish or cycle when using the python later. There is a chance that your python may get dyed purple or brown by this treatment. When soaking equipment or tanks (without fish/plants) always cover it because sunlight will deactivate the PP and make the treatment not as effective.

For the plants I am not sure on the liquid dosing. There are dosings for the crystals. But plant dips should be done for a shorter period of time (between 30 seconds and 10 minutes depending on concentration and type of leaves) then placed in a quarantine of sorts without fish for a week or two. Redo the PP treatment once more before rinsing and placing in a tank if you have not seen any signs of snails or other unwanteds in the quarantine period between dips.

You should be able to find crystalized PP at sears by the water heaters. It is sold as a way to regenerate manual iron removal filters. It is made by Kenmore. The bollte will be a bit more expensive than your liquid bottle, but should last a lot longer as it takes very little to make a sterilizing solution.

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You can't really overdose for the python. For the crystals, most people reccomend adding enough so the water is a nice deepish purple. Soak the python for 5 hours then deactivate the PP with either hydrogen peroxide, or any water dechlorinator till the water is brown and not purple any more. Then all you have to do is rinse it out. By deactivating the PP first there is no risk of leftovers causing problems with your fish or cycle when using the python later. There is a chance that your python may get dyed purple or brown by this treatment. When soaking equipment or tanks (without fish/plants) always cover it because sunlight will deactivate the PP and make the treatment not as effective.

For the plants I am not sure on the liquid dosing. There are dosings for the crystals. But plant dips should be done for a shorter period of time (between 30 seconds and 10 minutes depending on concentration and type of leaves) then placed in a quarantine of sorts without fish for a week or two. Redo the PP treatment once more before rinsing and placing in a tank if you have not seen any signs of snails or other unwanteds in the quarantine period between dips.

You should be able to find crystalized PP at sears by the water heaters. It is sold as a way to regenerate manual iron removal filters. It is made by Kenmore. The bollte will be a bit more expensive than your liquid bottle, but should last a lot longer as it takes very little to make a sterilizing solution.

California has outlawed the use of PP in crystal form. At least that is what I have been told by the pet stores and others. It is not available to me. Even the ebay seller I talked to will not ship PP crystals to me. Only in liquid form is it available. So unfortunately, I need the info on the liquid form, not crystals. Here is a repost of my questions.

Ok, I picked up the liquid. It's by Kordon, and it's called Pond Permoxyn. Organic Oxidizer, Treatment and Dip. PP 3.84% Solution.

On the back it says, "useful in fresh water as a control of diseases caused by monogenetic trematodes (flukes), Angulus (fish lice) and Lernaea (anchorworms) infecting pond fishes. Can be used to inactivate treatments such as Formalin3, rid ich, amquel etc. Novaqua and Amquel can be used 24 hours after treatment.

Directions: To improve water quality by oxidation of dissolved and suspended organic materials, add 1-2/3 fl. oz. per 100 gallons, or 1 capful per 8 gal, both producing a concentration of 5 mg/L of PP. This dosage is safe for biological filtration. The water being treated will change from purple to brown to colorless. A partial water change is recommended after treatment. As a disease treatment, add 1 tsp per 5 gal. (this equals 10 mg/L PP) Dip fish for no longer than 30 minutes. May be toxic to some species of algae, aquatic plants and invertebrates.

The web address given above is not a good address.

My questions....

How much do I need to use to disinfect the live plants in a 1 gal tank? How much to disinfect the python hoses in a 2-1/3 gal bucket?

I want the hoses safe for refill tank purposes, I already have a syphon that I connect to the garden hose for water removal.

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Yikes, I am really sorry Roni, I can't be much help. I haven't used Permoxyn (just recommended it as a Pp treatment). Can you ask on their website or something?

I always have used bleach to disinfect both new plants and equipment :idont

Im just going to drag & paste some info Ranchugirl posted on Permoxyn here. Andrea talks about the 4% solution which is pretty much what Permoxyn is so you can apply this specifically, hope it helps :

Also sold in smaller liquid dosage as Permoxyn. PP can also be used in cold water very effectively, unlike other medications. It is adviced not to inhale it, since its toxis to lungs. Also wear protective eye glasses. It is one of the least stressful medications, salt being the only one with even less stressing effects on the fish.

Other purposes: PP is a powerful oxidizer, oxidizing debris in your tank and leaving it cleaner. Its widely used by pond owners as part of spring cleaning. Its also used to sterilize tanks after illness, and to disinfect newly aquired plants.

0.04% solution can be added as follows:

- 3 tablespoons per 10 gl

- 1/3 cup per 20 gl

- 1 cup per 60 gl

Naturally, if you wonna go with the lower 0.02% solution, use only half the above dosage (I expect this would apply to plants).

The water will become purple and should remain so for at least 3-4 hours for the treatment to be effective. If there is too much organics in the tank, it might get deactivated earlier and turn into a brownish amber color. At this stage the PP is ineffective.

PP can also be used as a topical treatment, dapping it on affected areas with a cotton swab, just make sure it doesn't get into their eyes and gills.

Ways to deactivate: Hydrogen peroxide can be used, as well as most dechlorinators. Those products will turn PP and the tank into a brown amber color. Light also deactivates PP.

It is also very convenient to do a PP bath in a separate tank or tub. Putting a fish in a PP bath of .04ppm for 2-4 hours when returning from shows, bringing in the fish from a pond, receiving a new fish before placement in qt, or for a good topical treatment of wounds, many parasites, funguses, etc. is an excellent way of topical treatment. It is advisable to use extra aeration in a tank using PP as a bath.

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California has outlawed the use of PP in crystal form. At least that is what I have been told by the pet stores and others. It is not available to me. Even the ebay seller I talked to will not ship PP crystals to me. Only in liquid form is it available. So unfortunately, I need the info on the liquid form, not crystals.

"It's not easy being green!" sings Kermit the Frog!

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I typed a nice long answer to this question....somewhere. I typed it and it disappeared, so I remember writing it AGAIN.

I am flying out the door right now to ted/condition the hay - a full day's job - so I cannot go into the details... BUT - to disinfect with liquid PP you just have to add enough that the water is a bright "Purple" - that pinkish purple we used to call "Godzilla Pink" from the monster in those hilarious Japanese monster movies.

If you have a lot of biological material in the water, the PP reacts with it, sterilizing it, but then the PP turns a kind of amber brown. This means it is no longer working. For general tank and equipment sterilization, I genearlly recomend that the water stays purple for 4 hours. If it goes amber before that, add more.

The only time you would have to worry about dose, specifically would be if you were disinfecting live fish or plants. For equipment - it is very forgiving.

The main reason I remove the color and deactivate the PP with hydrogen peroxide is that my tanks are mostly across light colored carpet. If I were to slosh purple water all over the carpet I would be very unhappy. If you do not have this worry, you can skip the hp.

There are ways to use PP tosterilize a whole pond of parasites - yet leave the fish and plants alive. This is a bit more complicated. For what you are wanting however, the dose is not very exact. I usually take a small white cup and a scoop of water and look at the color. It should be a clear pink.

For hoses - the same thing goes - 4 hours of bright pink/purple.

For plants - I have never had a lot of luck. I usually give them 4 hours at 4 ppm ..... But ethe more delicate plants usually took it hard - and the tougher plants were not phased. I also had some snails and other critters make it through that. (That is the dose for fish). I would suggest treating them exactly as you do the fish - and then qting the plants too......

argh. I will think on it and look for that post.

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Daryl you won't find it.. It was in a PM to ME!! But I saved it. This is when Roni was just thinking about using PP.

My PM to Daryl:

Oh good thanks! I was just reading Roni's thread, and your advice to her. My question is when it comes to the liquid version of PP, the Permoxyn. Do you have ANY idea what the average dose per gallon would be to get the solution the right color of purple? I am planning on using PP for two of my larger (well for me they are larger) tanks. I decided to test it out on a small 5 gallon, just to get an idea of what I would be in for. I didn't measure it, just kinda poured a little in, and it turned bright pink. I knew it was supposed to be purple, so I poured a bit more in. Still bright pink. Tried some more, still bright pink. I put a finger in the solution just to see if it would stain (because you said that it WOULD stain) and it didn't. All of this lead me to wonder if I was using ENOUGH. However, I let it sit for a few days..(as opposed to just 4 hours) because I was in no rush.. It took over 4 days for the pink to slowly start turning brown. It's now been about a week and pink is all gone, and the brown residue is all that is left. THAT makes me think it WAS enough! So my questions are:

1) When using Permoxyn what is the average dose?

2) Is it okay to leave in it LONGER than the 4 hours like I did???

3)Since it has turned brown, do i not need to add any Hydrogen Peroxide? Can I just rinse, and be done? Or should I rinse a few times??

I think that's it. I might copy this and your response into Roni's thread since it sort of relates?

I never did cause I didn't wanna barge in LOL

Her PM to me (the second time after it deleted!)

Oh, man. Let me see if I can do this again. Arrgh.

PP dosage is only important when you are dosing where there are fish present. PP can burn their gills - even kill a fish if not properly dosed. BUT, since you want it to KILL - nuke nasties - anytime you are using PP in a situation where you do not have fish present, it is not particularly important the exact dose you use.

I am not familiar with the concentration of Permoxyn. My computer is finicky - but I can look it up if you wish. It is not particularly important. When you are attemtping to sterilize a tank, filter, equipment, etc. adding in enough to make the water purple is the usual standard. I suppose you are too young to remember those hilarious Japanese monster flicks, but there was one called "Godzilla". He was a unique shade of pink/purple. When people say "purple" for PP water, they really mean "Godzilla Pink"..... IT is a purply pink (looked ready silly on a gigantic dinasaour type cridder!). So the pink that you are seeing is just fine.

You can add PP until the water is such a dark purple/pink that you can barely see through it. That is fine - but it will stain more. You can add PP until the water is decidedly pink....(hmmmmm - I have some pictures somewhere of my fish in a PP bath - to give you an idea of the color.... cannot post them in here, but I can on the board). The duration of the treatment is a standardized "dwell" time for average sterilization. Longer will not hurt anything (you are NOT treating fish here, though!). It may stain a bit more, but be of no great consequence. It will sterilize just fine.

Adding hydrogen peroxide to the PP to neutralize it is a convenience. When people treat whole ponds and such, it is common to add hp to the pond to clear the water. Once it is cleared, the PP is basically "gone". The water is good to go - it needs no changing, no additives.

In a tank that you have treated, unless you wish to keep all the water (and I never have in a tank), it is not necessary to add hp at the end of the treatment. IT is merely a convenience. I have to carry the purple water across hardwood floors and carpets to dispose of it. One slop and I have a Godzilla pink carpet! That is not in keeping with my decor.... so I clear it before I carry it. I also have an 80 year old septic system - so I neutralize it before I dump it down the drain. But you do not NEED to.

I think that is pretty much what I said in my vanished answer..... and covers what you asked.....

??OK?

I really like PP. It is, however, a strong chemical that can cause nasty stains, nasty lung damage if you breathe in the crystals, and can KILL fish and plants and other things if not used carefully. It can be a wonder sterilizer in a grievious wound, a parasite clearing device in a huge pond, a sterilizer for a compromised tank and equipment. IT will kill a spot of fungus, stop fin rot in its tracks, and remove many types of surface parasites.....

:)

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Daryl you won't find it.. It was in a PM to ME!! But I saved it. This is when Roni was just thinking about using PP.

My PM to Daryl:

Oh good thanks! I was just reading Roni's thread, and your advice to her. My question is when it comes to the liquid version of PP, the Permoxyn. Do you have ANY idea what the average dose per gallon would be to get the solution the right color of purple? I am planning on using PP for two of my larger (well for me they are larger) tanks. I decided to test it out on a small 5 gallon, just to get an idea of what I would be in for. I didn't measure it, just kinda poured a little in, and it turned bright pink. I knew it was supposed to be purple, so I poured a bit more in. Still bright pink. Tried some more, still bright pink. I put a finger in the solution just to see if it would stain (because you said that it WOULD stain) and it didn't. All of this lead me to wonder if I was using ENOUGH. However, I let it sit for a few days..(as opposed to just 4 hours) because I was in no rush.. It took over 4 days for the pink to slowly start turning brown. It's now been about a week and pink is all gone, and the brown residue is all that is left. THAT makes me think it WAS enough! So my questions are:

1) When using Permoxyn what is the average dose?

2) Is it okay to leave in it LONGER than the 4 hours like I did???

3)Since it has turned brown, do i not need to add any Hydrogen Peroxide? Can I just rinse, and be done? Or should I rinse a few times??

I think that's it. I might copy this and your response into Roni's thread since it sort of relates?

I never did cause I didn't wanna barge in LOL

Her PM to me (the second time after it deleted!)

Oh, man. Let me see if I can do this again. Arrgh.

PP dosage is only important when you are dosing where there are fish present. PP can burn their gills - even kill a fish if not properly dosed. BUT, since you want it to KILL - nuke nasties - anytime you are using PP in a situation where you do not have fish present, it is not particularly important the exact dose you use.

I am not familiar with the concentration of Permoxyn. My computer is finicky - but I can look it up if you wish. It is not particularly important. When you are attemtping to sterilize a tank, filter, equipment, etc. adding in enough to make the water purple is the usual standard. I suppose you are too young to remember those hilarious Japanese monster flicks, but there was one called "Godzilla". He was a unique shade of pink/purple. When people say "purple" for PP water, they really mean "Godzilla Pink"..... IT is a purply pink (looked ready silly on a gigantic dinasaour type cridder!). So the pink that you are seeing is just fine.

You can add PP until the water is such a dark purple/pink that you can barely see through it. That is fine - but it will stain more. You can add PP until the water is decidedly pink....(hmmmmm - I have some pictures somewhere of my fish in a PP bath - to give you an idea of the color.... cannot post them in here, but I can on the board). The duration of the treatment is a standardized "dwell" time for average sterilization. Longer will not hurt anything (you are NOT treating fish here, though!). It may stain a bit more, but be of no great consequence. It will sterilize just fine.

Adding hydrogen peroxide to the PP to neutralize it is a convenience. When people treat whole ponds and such, it is common to add hp to the pond to clear the water. Once it is cleared, the PP is basically "gone". The water is good to go - it needs no changing, no additives.

In a tank that you have treated, unless you wish to keep all the water (and I never have in a tank), it is not necessary to add hp at the end of the treatment. IT is merely a convenience. I have to carry the purple water across hardwood floors and carpets to dispose of it. One slop and I have a Godzilla pink carpet! That is not in keeping with my decor.... so I clear it before I carry it. I also have an 80 year old septic system - so I neutralize it before I dump it down the drain. But you do not NEED to.

I think that is pretty much what I said in my vanished answer..... and covers what you asked.....

??OK?

I really like PP. It is, however, a strong chemical that can cause nasty stains, nasty lung damage if you breathe in the crystals, and can KILL fish and plants and other things if not used carefully. It can be a wonder sterilizer in a grievious wound, a parasite clearing device in a huge pond, a sterilizer for a compromised tank and equipment. IT will kill a spot of fungus, stop fin rot in its tracks, and remove many types of surface parasites.....

:)

::standing with hands on hips eyeing Sue:: Sue! Next time, BARGE IN. j/k LOL I ended up PMing Trinket, Acupunk and Darryl to try to get an answer for the plants. I just popped them in the PP, and like you, just added a little till it was a darker shade of pink. I hope I don't kill the plants, but I figured I added in about 1/2 teaspoon in the 1 gallon. A quarter tspn was a pretty light pink, not purplish in color at all. I did the PP about an hour and a half ago... 4 hours huh? I'm more hoping I didn't damage my moss ball. I read that you had to squeeze the air from them to get them to sink, but when I squeezed the ball, no air came out, it didn't sink but it did seem to end up looking more like a football than a basketball.

I had already lost 1 plant in the qt. I had fed the plants with the jungle anti bacterial food, and a couple of days later thick foam layered the top of the water. If nothing else, the snails died. All I found after that was empty shells. :) The Anubias is fine as is that lacey thing plant, tho that looks pretty brown, and the banana plant had some white gooey stuff on the bottom of one of the bananas that I wiped off. I took the mondo grass back and bought a new air pump. One large enough to handle the 29g w/3 stones.

I want to give Elvis the moss ball tomorrow so he has something in that tank to play with. Can I leave the weight on? How do I make sure it's safe to add into his tank tomorrow? If I use the HP will that be good, or can I just take it straight from the PP solution and drop it in with Elvis in the 12g?

I want him to be able to play volleyball with that. He loves pushing the thermometer all over the tank, I figured he'd have fun with the moss ball too.

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I do not know exactly how to tell if the moss ball is "safe", but when I dropped my moss balls in, I just gave 'em a squeeze and plopped them in. They sank within hours. Any PP that is left in them will be soooooooo diluted that you do not need to worry about it at all.

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::standing with hands on hips eyeing Sue:: Sue! Next time, BARGE IN. j/k LOL

Sorry Roni! LOL My head has been all over the place. I actually think at first I didn't know whether I should, then I decided I WAS going to just add it, but I think it slipped my mind.. Man I write so much on here I thought people might get sick of me "Hey! Just popping in" LMAO LMAO Next time I'll pop in no matter HOW ANNYOYING I am HAHAHAH! (But just remember.. you clearly told me "Sue.. BARGE IN". You have been warned!!! : )

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::standing with hands on hips eyeing Sue:: Sue! Next time, BARGE IN. j/k LOL

Sorry Roni! LOL My head has been all over the place. I actually think at first I didn't know whether I should, then I decided I WAS going to just add it, but I think it slipped my mind.. Man I write so much on here I thought people might get sick of me "Hey! Just popping in" LMAO LMAO Next time I'll pop in no matter HOW ANNYOYING I am HAHAHAH! (But just remember.. you clearly told me "Sue.. BARGE IN". You have been warned!!! : )

::leaving door open behind me as I enter the room:: There, now you don't have to barge in, you can come in with an open invitation. ;)

Thanks Darryl. I am actually hoping it doesn't sink. I want it to float. What about the weight. That's okay to leave on right?

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::standing with hands on hips eyeing Sue:: Sue! Next time, BARGE IN. j/k LOL

Sorry Roni! LOL My head has been all over the place. I actually think at first I didn't know whether I should, then I decided I WAS going to just add it, but I think it slipped my mind.. Man I write so much on here I thought people might get sick of me "Hey! Just popping in" LMAO LMAO Next time I'll pop in no matter HOW ANNYOYING I am HAHAHAH! (But just remember.. you clearly told me "Sue.. BARGE IN". You have been warned!!! : )

::leaving door open behind me as I enter the room:: There, now you don't have to barge in, you can come in with an open invitation. ;)

Thanks Darryl. I am actually hoping it doesn't sink. I want it to float. What about the weight. That's okay to leave on right?

Never mind. I droped in the ball with the weight and Elvis attacked it. Prob was he ran headfirst into the string on the way to the other side, so I cut the string and the weight off. I put it back in and he hasn't left it alone for a sec.

I'm a little concerned tho. Not only is he picking at it with his mouth, he is rubbing up against it. Is he scratching or playing?

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I do not know about scratching or "flashing" on it, but my goldfish managed to eat three 3inch diameter moss balls within 24 hours. Totally destroy them to small floating "crumbs". The only way I could keep those balls alive was to keep them in a "plant only" tank. As they made new, baby moss balls, I gave the baies to the fish to eat. I just gave up after a year - too much work.

I hope your balls roll around wonderfully, cleaning algae and providing exersize for your fishy atheletes. :)

(I am sorry - Thank you for remembering, Roni. I have been sooooo many places recently - the farm, the hospital, the lab, work, etc. etc. I do not know where I I half the time!)

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