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Ich - My Goldies :(


jyoti411

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Hello Everyone,

Please help...my goldfish have ICH...they were fine last night...its very early stage...I can actually count the spots on them...but it is ICH..I am sure...they are active eat and swim well..so I think its an early stage...

Water test have the following results:

Nitrate: 20

Nitrites: 0

pH: 7

Alkalinity 80

Hardness TH : 0-80

Brand of test: mmm 5-Way test strips (any recommendations on any other test kit..I will get it)

Tank size - 20 gals

Filter - Penguin 200

Water change 1-2 times a week - 25-30% each time

# of Fish - 2 - Red cap oranda - 1-1 1/2 inch, Lionhead - 1-1/2 inch

Conditioner - API tap water conditioner (I have ordered a good brand from GFC)

No medications yet

Added the lionhead around 12 days ago...(Cud be that..I feel awful..I had him in the QT tank only for 2 days...how fololish of me :( )

I feed the Hikari Lionhead sinking pellets (soaked)..Tetrafin flakes (I have ordered Progold from GFC), vegetables and fruits...boiled spinach, peas, water melon, Topfin frozen dried bloodworms as a treat..

There are grains of salt on their caudal fins..I can really count them..its very early stage..but it is ICH..The red cap orabda has like a very small bloody streak on the caudal fin...I tried looking..she has been changing her color to gold..could be that too..but this is more like red...The lionhead os fine..

They have been very active...even now..they are very normal..swimming playing..the had a spinach leaf and a boiled pea for breakfast...they are normal..but have ICH....

I am right now dissolving aquarium salt: this is from a local mom pop store: The dosage suggested is one tablespoon salt per 10 gallon..so I have 1 1/2 - 2 table spoons in there dissolving in tank water..I am following instruction on this page http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876

NaCl - 99.102%

MgCl- .009%

Cacl - .011%

Caslcium Sulphate - .174%

Analysis moisture - .19%

Water insoluble - .68%

Also I have a Ich Cure medication - with Formacilin, Malachite Green

I also got a polyfiber cut-to fit filter pad...Should I remove the current filter pad I have???

What is the correct way to go about dealing...Please help...I am freaking out...should I go for the medication or salt heat and dark treatment...

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when my fish had it i used the medication and that work but made my filter sponge blue from it. if you use it,it should go away in 4- 6 days not too long! ;)

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Hey!!! Although the medications are good in some cases, I would suggest using salt like you've started instead of the harsh meds. It's much safer and gentler on the fish and very effective.. Let me post this, then I will elaborate. : )

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Ok...gr888...I am now adding the salt water to it..I am also going to make it dark for them..Chikoo occasionally sits on the bottom...oh my god....and also what about the filter pad..should I introduce the new filter sponge I got..or continue with the old Penguin filter pad..

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I forgot to mention...I did a quick water change this morning..20% only...becos I did not have a lot of water aging out...I now have over 7 gallons of water aging at the moment for any water changes in future...

I added the salt water to the aquarium..the temperature in there is around 76..and I have also made it dark for the goldies by wrapping a thick cloth around the tank..and no lights...As per the directions I have to wait 12 hours..I ll keep checking on them...

My only main questions are..

1) What do I do about the filter pad??..It might have some parasites in there too..

2) When should I vac my tank for a water change..Its a bare bottom with just a few gems...Should I remove the gems totally??

3) When I remove the filter pad won't it hurt the cycle??..How can this be dealt with??

I am doing these things fine...Will they get better???

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OKay I just got through reading your entire post in detail. : )

First of all, I would recommend getting the API Master Test Kit. It's a drop test kit, which are WAY more accurate than strips. It will also give you an ammonia reading, which you don't have right now, and is very important!!

I would NOT add meds right now!! You never want to add any meds to water than you are unsure of exact water parameters. We have no idea if there is ammonia in the tank right now, and meds and ammonia do NOT mix.. The medicines can be very harsh. I was in the SAME exact situation as you. I had my fish and added a new one without properly quartenining him. Within a few days ALL of my fish had ICH. I added QuickCure (containing the same meds as the one you have I think) and 2 of my fish died overnight!! Then the rest died after another dose. The only fish that lived was treated with the salt and heat method in a second tank that was not exposed to the medicine!!

I followed Trinkets salting method exactly, and raised the heat to 80. (gradually).. You are going to want to add the salt to 0.3%, which is different than the dosing on the package. That is equal to three teaspoons of salt per gallon. But like the instructions in the article you are reading, you want to do that in increments. You said you added some salt. The first thing I would do if you didn't do so BEFORE you added that salt is a large water change. (as close to 100% as possible) That will help clear the water of any free swimming parasites, and some of the cysts. Then you will add 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon. That will bring you to a solution of 0.1%. Twelve hours later add another teaspoon per gallon, bringing you to 0.2%. Twelve hours later another teaspoon per gallon, bringing you to your total of 0.3%. The fish should be able to handle this amount. If they begin to act strangly you may need a lower level, but in MOST cases this amount it just right to treat the Ich and will not hurt the fish..

It is going to be important to test the water daily after adding the salt. Sometimes salt can cause a bump in the cycle, leading to ammonia and nitrites showing up again.. You will want to be cleaning the tank OFTEN right now.. Use a syphon and do LARGE water changes each day. Scrub down the sides of the tank. You are trying to remove any Ich that are in various forms around the tank.. The salt should be left at 0.3% for a minimum of 7 days.. When you are removing water, you must add the same amount of salt that you remove, back in with the new water (dechlorinated and matched for temperature). For exmaple if you are removing ten gallons of water, you are removing 30 teaspoons of salt, so you must add back in 30 teaspoons of salt with the new 10 gallons of water). If you keep a log showing how much you've removed, and how much you've added back in, it will really help you keep track and not get confused.

You can leave in the filter pad, and should. It contains the majority of your BB"s and right now your tank water needs to be PERFECT. No ammonia. If you change the pad now you might risk losing those BB's and causing a bump in the cycle.

This is getting long. I'll post it and see if I missed anything. : )

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forgot to mention...I did a quick water change this morning..20% only...becos I did not have a lot of water aging out...I now have over 7 gallons of water aging at the moment for any water changes in future...

As long as you have a good dechlorinator, you do not need to age the water. I fill my buckets with water of the same temperature, and then add my water conditioner (I use Prime. Its great and only takes two drops per gallon). I ususally wait 5 minutes, but it supposedly works instantly. I just like to be extra safe)

1) What do I do about the filter pad??..It might have some parasites in there too..
3) When I remove the filter pad won't it hurt the cycle??..How can this be dealt with??

Personally, I would leave the filter pad. You are right. Removing it could disturb the cycle.. The salt will eventually kill anything that's on the filter pad. Just rinse it when you are cleaning the tank with old tank water..I think right now it's important that the cycle remains safe.

2) When should I vac my tank for a water change..Its a bare bottom with just a few gems...Should I remove the gems totally??

If it's mostly barebottom that's good!! It will be easier to clean. As for the gems I think you could remove them if you wanted to make it easier to clean. If you only have a few of them it shouldn't disturb your cycle if you removed them. If you do chose to keep them, just vaccum thoroughly around them when you are syphoning to do your water changes.

The spots will not go away immediately. But after a few days they will begin to drop off. The cysts will be picked up during a water change. Sometimes they will clear, but more will show up as new ones emerge.. This is why you want to keep the salt in for a minimum of 7 days AFTER THE LAST SPOT DISAPPEARS. (I didn't make that clear earlier, I just said 7 days).

I hope I covered everything!! Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm not an expert but I do have experience treating Ich. Hopefully if I missed anything someone else will come along and catch it!

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forgot to mention...I did a quick water change this morning..20% only...becos I did not have a lot of water aging out...I now have over 7 gallons of water aging at the moment for any water changes in future...

As long as you have a good dechlorinator, you do not need to age the water. I fill my buckets with water of the same temperature, and then add my water conditioner (I use Prime. Its great and only takes two drops per gallon). I ususally wait 5 minutes, but it supposedly works instantly. I just like to be extra safe)

1) What do I do about the filter pad??..It might have some parasites in there too..
3) When I remove the filter pad won't it hurt the cycle??..How can this be dealt with??

Personally, I would leave the filter pad. You are right. Removing it could disturb the cycle.. The salt will eventually kill anything that's on the filter pad. Just rinse it when you are cleaning the tank with old tank water..I think right now it's important that the cycle remains safe.

2) When should I vac my tank for a water change..Its a bare bottom with just a few gems...Should I remove the gems totally??

If it's mostly barebottom that's good!! It will be easier to clean. As for the gems I think you could remove them if you wanted to make it easier to clean. If you only have a few of them it shouldn't disturb your cycle if you removed them. If you do chose to keep them, just vaccum thoroughly around them when you are syphoning to do your water changes.

The spots will not go away immediately. But after a few days they will begin to drop off. The cysts will be picked up during a water change. Sometimes they will clear, but more will show up as new ones emerge.. This is why you want to keep the salt in for a minimum of 7 days AFTER THE LAST SPOT DISAPPEARS. (I didn't make that clear earlier, I just said 7 days).

I hope I covered everything!! Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm not an expert but I do have experience treating Ich. Hopefully if I missed anything someone else will come along and catch it!

Thank you sooo much Hun...I had done a 20% water change...you are right..I don't need to wait that long to age the water...But I have added the salt already..so I will wait for a few hours..before a major water change..which I will be doing this evening...and I will add new salt...

Thanks for the advice of keeping the filter pad...yeah cos I am worried about the cycle...and duh me..no Ammonia test... :krazy: ..I am getting the ammonia test kit now..and I will add the result as well...I am going to take out the gems in the evening with the water change...thanks for the awesome advice...

And I will update in the evening after my water change...The fish are fine in the salt water...but due to darkness they are napping...and no gasping and no stress...so thankfully..at least that helps..but I will keep a close watch on them too..Thanks CountryLovah..(I could use your actual name if you don't mind...may I know what your name is.. :) )thanks Franky...

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I am getting the ammonia test kit now..and I will add the result as well...

Sounds great!!!

And I will update in the evening after my water change...The fish are fine in the salt water...but due to darkness they are napping...and no gasping and no stress...so thankfully..at least that helps..but I will keep a close watch on them too..Thanks CountryLovah..(I could use your actual name if you don't mind...may I know what your name is.. :) )thanks Franky...

Wonderful. I am glad they are doing well so far.. I hope they get better fast. It sounds like you caught it early and it's great that so far the fish are behaving normally.. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you! : ) Oh and my name is Sue! I've been meaning to work on my signature and I never have!!

I'll be watching for an update! Talk to you later!

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Thanks Sue... :)

Oh..I have one more question...The salt that I have been using is not granulated...Its more like fine gravel sized rocks. This is from a local mom pop store:

The dosage suggested is one tablespoon salt per 10 gallon..so I have 1 1/2 - 2 table spoons in there dissolving in tank water..I am following instruction on this page http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876

NaCl - 99.102%

MgCl- .009%

Cacl - .011%

Caslcium Sulphate - .174%

Analysis moisture - .19%

Water insoluble - .68%

Does this mean that the suggested dosage will reach only 0.1% salinity...and hence to achieve 0.3% I will have to put an extra dosage after 12 hours??..Am I correct??

Also since I will be changing the water in the evening, I will add an additional dosage to come to 0.2% at night...Is this correct?

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The salt looking like gravel is exactly what the salt I use looks like.. However I am confused as to what type of salt exactly you are using. There are various types of salt that are okay to use. Regular granulated salt actually is NOT the kind you want to be using. As I understand it, the important thing is that the salt does not contain any anti-caking agents. Aquarium salt is fine, canning or pickling salt is fine.

I copied this information from Acupunk in another thread:

What you want for your goldfish is plain NaCl. You can use aquarium salt, pickling salt, canning salt, or plain salt intended for water softeners. Just be sure it doesn't have any additives (like iodine) or anti-caking agents (like YPS).

And this from ThoughtsOfJoy:

(Salting to 0.3% is achieved in steps. First salt to 0.1%: 1 TSP per gallon of coarse-grained aquarium or canning/pickling salt, pre-dissolved before added to the aquarium. Do this three times over the course of 36 hours, in 12 hour intervals.)

The dose they recommend on the box is always different. In this case you are needing to use the medicinal dose, which is the dose recommending in the link you are reading.. Your tank is 20 gallon yes? (I have to read back through). If so salt at 0.1% would mean 20 teaspoons. 1 tablespoon equals 3 teaspoons. So right now if you have at most 2 Tablespoons in, you have at most 6 teaspoons. SO you would need to add 14 more teaspoons to bring the level to 0.1%.

Then twelve hours later add the other 20 teaspoons. Bringing it to 0.2%. Then twelve hours later add another 20 teaspooons, bringing it to 0.3%. Yes, you are right, if you are going to remove water, you will also be removing the salt, so you must add back in the salt you replaced. Say you have salt at 0.1% and you remove half the water. That means just to bring it back up to 0.1% you need to add 10 teaspoons of salt back in, THEN add the 20 teaspoons to bring it up to 0.2%. Does that make sense?

You said you added the salt in, and are letting it dissolve. Does that mean you did not dissolve it in a small amount of tank water first? If so what you want to do when adding the salt, it to measure out what you are using, and add it to a small container or cup of tank water (an unused plastic cup works great, the disposable kind). Stir the salt up until it dissolves. If you have to, pour a little of the solution out, and refill with more tank water and mix again until all the salt is dissolved. Then pour the solution into the tank. If you want you can read over the salt link a few more times.. The first few times I read it I was confused. lol

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Great advice Sue!! Sunshine girl- you are doing fine with Sue's help. Another 14 teaspoons up to 0.1%. Use something to crush the salt so you can get a level teaspoon amount. Salt will get rid of the ich in no time since its early stages.

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Sue, Everything you posted made sense..totally...thank you so much for being there for my babies...Thanks a ton...

Trinket, excellent advice on crushing the salt..I did that too...Thank you so much Trinket...the using salt - forum post you have is helping a lot..thanks so much..

I did a huge water change...took out the gems and the small 'No Fishing' ceramic sign....vacuumed everything...cleaned the sides of the tank properly...bubbler ornament thoroughly cleaned and put back in for more oxygen in warm water...

I replaced the salt I took out...around 9 gallons of water was replaced...so I added 27 teaspoons of salt to a bowl with some tank water..dissolved every bit of salt and added the water to the tank...my goldies freaked out a bit....its just been 10 min with all this change...so they are kind of coming upto the surface very frequently...

I have also tested the water in the tank now...

Ammonia - I tested it with API test kit..where you take 5 ml of the water and add 8 drops of two solutions, wait 5 minutes and compare the final color with a chart..I get confused between the colors...Is this test kit ok???... :o I really find the color to be more between 0-0.25 as indicated on the chart..I am not sure of this one..and this the most important parameter to know..any help on this???

Nitrite Level - 0

Nitrate Level -0

Ph - 7

Temperature - 78

I had fed the guys a boiled peeled pea and a boiled spinach leaf..tht they happily munched on..I haven't fed them anything after that...

After I added the the new salt to the tank...they have been feeling sleepy...I have darkened it out for them...

Any thing else I should do??..Thanks for all the help and sugestions..Thanks sooo much...

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It sounds like you are doing really really well! : )

Sue, Everything you posted made sense..totally...thank you so much for being there for my babies...Thanks a ton...

You are so very welcome.. It feels like just yesterday that everyone was on here helping me with Ich for my babies, and it feels so good to be able to pass along the information and hopefully help you out.. It might sound weird, but it almost gives Sheldon's death a purpose. I learned so much from taking care of him, and hopefully now because of it your fish will get better.. Maybe I am being a bit too dramatic, but hey, that's just how I am lol

Ammonia - I tested it with API test kit..where you take 5 ml of the water and add 8 drops of two solutions, wait 5 minutes and compare the final color with a chart..I get confused between the colors...Is this test kit ok???... :o I really find the color to be more between 0-0.25 as indicated on the chart..I am not sure of this one..and this the most important parameter to know..any help on this???

Yes this is the kit I use (and a lot of people use). The readings you are getting sound about right considering it seems like the tank is still cycling, or overcoming a bump in the cycle.. While a fully cycled tank will always be at zero for ammonia, right now the readings you are seeing are not bad at ALL.. (Mine go up to 1ppm of ammonia each day, so each day I must do a LARGE water change, if not two of them. I also have ammonia in my tap water which makes it even more of a pain! lol). Keep testing the water (ammonia & nitrite especially right now) and if you see those start to climb, do an extra water change. Like I said yesterday (I think?) you will probably need to be doing one large water change daily just to get as many of the nasty little *&)^% out of the water as possible. Hopefully this will be enough to keep your levels in a safe enough range.

I am sooo glad to hear they are still doing welll! Keep updating! : )

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You are so very welcome.. It feels like just yesterday that everyone was on here helping me with Ich for my babies, and it feels so good to be able to pass along the information and hopefully help you out.. It might sound weird, but it almost gives Sheldon's death a purpose. I learned so much from taking care of him, and hopefully now because of it your fish will get better.. Maybe I am being a bit too dramatic, but hey, that's just how I am lol

Hi Sue,

You are not being over dramatic...I am like that too... :) ..I totally get you..Thanks again..

Now for the update..I really meant to give you an update early this morning..but when I landed here there were a few more posts with problems, so I thought posting there would be more helpful and important..and then I ran down to the pet store to get extra salt..just in case...

Last night like I said I got the salt levels to 0.2%...with a huge water change...I hardly slept for 4-5 hours..and when I woke up..I saw almost all the ich grains had fallen off from both their bodies..Sunshine still has the blood streak on her caudal fin..but her dorsal fin is back to being erect, unlike last night..Chikoo had this one ugly grain on his cute chubby lip..and that was gone too..I was so relieved to see them peppy and swimmy...begging for food.. :) I fed them only one boiled pea..and they heartily munched on it...I did a huge water change again this noon..around 8 gallons, the same way I did last night..and this time got the salts to 0.3% by adding extra salt...

The temperature in there is 78...and pH is 7..Nitrites and nitrates are zero when I test with the strip...But with the solution in the test tube..the Ammonia+NH3+NH4 reads in between 0-0.25 ppm..despite a water change...you are right, maybe there is a bump in the cycle...Its all dark for them...and they have been napping ever since I added the salt...I think it makes them sleepy..

Well..as of now they are doing good...I will have a small water change tonight to get the cysts fallen on the bottom of the tank..and then a huge one again tomorrow...

Now for some questions: :)

Should I cut down back to just 20% water changes after tomorrow or keep going with huge water changes?

How many days should I have 0.3% salt in the tank? - I think ideally the treatment should continue for 7 days...Please suggest..

Also once the treatment is over, should I change the filter??..This will affect the cycle..but Any possibility that the filter could have held some cysts and the ICH could be back?? Please suggest..

I have been cleaning the bucket I use for water changes and a glass pitcher and the syphon with really hot water before and after water changes...but should I use bleach and dry them in the sun, once everything is done?? What is a good way to go about it...

Thanks everyone who has been posting here...Thank you all the memebers for all the information up here..Has helped me and my goldies a lot to get through everything..I appreciate this forum, all the members..and above all this wonderful Koko's world.. :)

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They are falling off already?!?!?! This is incredible news!! You have NO idea how happy I am to hear this!! You must be thrilled! YAYAYAYAY!

You are doing soooo good!!!

Should I cut down back to just 20% water changes after tomorrow or keep going with huge water changes?

If it were me, I would do approx a 50% water change each day for a few more days. Test for ammonia & nitrite daily if possible. If they start to climb, you can do even larger water changes. But assuming your ammonia stays in the range it is now, and the nitite stays zero as it is now, a 50% water change daily would remove a larger number of the cysts, or Ich in ANY life stage, and would be a good thing right now. It will also keep your ammonia in check, just in case there is a bump in the cycle. Right now the fish still need perfect water. They will be stressed out from having to fight the parasites, and they will need time to recover with as pristine water as possible.

Keeping them covered in the dark is EXCELLENT. It will keep their stress levels down and give them time to heal... After the Ich dropped off of Sheldon, Trinket let me know how important it was to keep his water nice, and his stress level down.

Keep the salt at 0.3% for a minimum of 7 days after the last cysts drops off.. Trinket recently told me that you typically don't want to go longer than 2 weeks at 0.3% salt, because that too can stress the fish. When QTing new fish, she recommended I keep them at 2 weeks at 0.3%, and it will kill off everything. That's what I've been doing, and it's worked fabulously.

Also once the treatment is over, should I change the filter??..This will affect the cycle..but Any possibility that the filter could have held some cysts and the ICH could be back?? Please suggest..

Personally I would not change the filter material, as you are right, it could start the cycle over again. You can rinse the filter and filter media a bit in old tank water when you are doing your partial changes. But I don't believe you want to get rid of everything entirely.. If I am wrong about this, someone please feel free to correct me.. But I didn't change the material after.. It would be okay to replace small portions at a time if you would like. But I wouldn't worry about that for now.. If it were me, I would leave it be right now.

I have been cleaning the bucket I use for water changes and a glass pitcher and the syphon with really hot water before and after water changes...but should I use bleach and dry them in the sun, once everything is done?? What is a good way to go about it...

I've never used bleach.. Daryl & others got me hooked on the idea of Potassium Permanganate.. You certainly could disinfect the buckets afterwards, but which method is up to you. I will find you a link for disinfecting equipment.. So far I have had a good experience with PP. I like that it is safer, and doesn't need as much crazy rinsing. But a lot of people do use bleach, so it's up to you.

Thanks everyone who has been posting here...Thank you all the memebers for all the information up here..Has helped me and my goldies a lot to get through everything..I appreciate this forum, all the members..and above all this wonderful Koko's world.. :)

You remind me SOOO much of myself!! : )

Keep up the great work.. I am SOOOO glad to hear they are improving!!!!! : )

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BAM..you are soo fast... :D ...Thanks soo much...yeah I am sooo happy..yayyyyyyyyy!!..I was all smiles today..My bf saw my face this morning and asked..'Are your goldies doing better??'..when I said YES...pop came the answer..Well I can see... ;) ...

And gr8 advice with all my questions...all of it makes sense....you are saying all this from experience..and yes I will follow it..after all, all what I have followed is working..so I am sure everything will be fine in future too...Thank you so much...Thanks for being there...I cannot express how grateful I am to you for all the help..and all you guys for building this awesome place...

I will keep updating.. :) ...take care Sue...and thanks once again..

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BAM..you are soo fast... :D ...Thanks soo much...yeah I am sooo happy..yayyyyyyyyy!!..I was all smiles today..My bf saw my face this morning and asked..'Are your goldies doing better??'..when I said YES...pop came the answer..Well I can see... ;) ...

And gr8 advice with all my questions...all of it makes sense....you are saying all this from experience..and yes I will follow it..after all, all what I have followed is working..so I am sure everything will be fine in future too...Thank you so much...Thanks for being there...I cannot express how grateful I am to you for all the help..and all you guys for building this awesome place...

I will keep updating.. :) ...take care Sue...and thanks once again..

LOL I've been on and off all day today! Today I did water changes on ALL of my tanks.. It was a complete fish day! 100% water changes/cleaning for the two betta tanks and the small tropical tank. 50% water changes for two of the goldy tanks, and a 75% water change for the final goldie tank. Normall I like to do trops/bettas one day, then goldies the next day but I am gonna be at the beach tomorrow (yay). Whenever I do tank maintence I leave koko's on, and do some testing, do some koko's, back and forth. That way I don't feel like I just did water changes the WHOLE day. Getting off topic, but that's why I've been so quick to respond today : ) Tomorrow, don't count on seeing me til later (although I sometimes pop on in the morning before the beach).

You are soo soo soo welcome.. I am just passing along the info that was passed to me when I came here.. (I still PM Trinket and say "thank you thank you thank you" LOL) I was just like you, couldn't sleep because I was worried about the fish, my boyfriend could tell how the fish were doing based on my mood! I am just so happy to see them improve.. I remember that feeling when the cysts started to drop off and I realized "hey! the salt WORKS". I can imagine your feelings right now and I am sooo thrilled for you. I'll talk to you tomorrow (you KNOW I am gonna have to be back to see how things are going lol)..

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A small update and a question??

My oranda had quite a few ich grains on her caudal fins...All the grains have fallen..I have vacuumed the bare bottom tank twice today..a huge water change at noon...and a small water change just sometime back..replaced the salt...

My oranda's caudal fins seem to be damaged..not a case of fin rot..but really I can see patches/some portions of the fin are kinda wounded..not torn apart but a little more transparent than the rest of the fins...she has been sleeping after I had the huge water change..not been much active...has dorsal fin and caudal fins all frayed..not erect at all..something to be worried about???.or just that when the ich grains fall off, it makes the fish a bit weak...Also I know there would be wounds on her body since the grains fell off...Anything I can do to make it better..I feel awful to see her like that..will she get better....actually my lionhead is very perky and active..no signs of sickness..but my oranda has started being a bit weak since this noon..The water parametrs are really good...

Ammonia+NH3+NH4 with the API with the liquid dropper test kit...shows reading between 0-0.25...

pH - 7

Nh3 and Nh4 is 0 with a test strip...Any suggestions??..or is this a part of the process...she has started to freak me out a bit..I dont want to lose her..I really cannot bear it..Ich is a really common and treatment mostly is successful...I really really don't want to fail at this..its just disheartening tonite...

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Wow.. I must have "known" you were on here feeling bad, because I went to bed, watched a show, layed down for a while, then got up to check the weather forcast, and crazy me had to view new posts LMAO Glad I did.

I totally understand you freaking out, and worrying.. This same thing happened with my fish Sheldon.. His fins began to look terrible after the cysts dropped off.. I wish I could tell you for sure that your oranda will be fine.. I can't say that, but I hope she will be.. Although the cysts have begun to drop off, the parasites will have taken a toll on the fish.. A weaker fish may not be able to handle it. Right now, as trinket explained to me, the fins may start to fray due to the damage the parasites left, and due to stress.

I'm in a difficult place because on one hand, I would like to stay positive, and would like you to stay positive. On the other, I would like to be honest with you.. My fish Sheldon was left very weak after the Ich. Although it cleared up, and he got better for a while, in the end it left him too weak and he unfortunatly didn't make it due to a secondary infection. (As Trinket explained to me, sometimes the parasites can inject bacteria right into the fish).. Right now I would suggest to keep his stress levels down as much as possible. Keep the tank dark. (You can use a towel to completely keep it in the dark). Try as hard as you can to give him (her?) some quiet and time to heal.

I really really don't want to fail at this..its just disheartening tonite...

Don't give up!!! In any case, you are NOT failing. You are doing everything you can do, and doing everything RIGHT. I completely understand how you feel. Believe me when I say I went through the same thing.. I honestly went to bed tonight, and sat and talked to my boyfriend about YOUR fish lol.. Saying how I hope they get better.. So believe me, I know how you feel. My stomach hurts thinking about your fish being sick, so you must be twenty times more upset.. I am going to give you the link to my thread.. It's LONG, and confusing in the beginning. There are a few posts by different people (including Trinket) which may help?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=69521

Last, I don't want to give you the wrong advice, but at the same time, if I don't say this next thing I will kick myself, just in case.. In Sheldon's case we decided to try to give him MetroMeds from Goldfish Connection.. (After we gave him a week to try to heal naturally) However, they did not arrive in time, and by the time they came, he was no longer eating.. If you would like to, you could order those, but I strongly suggest you not use meds until a moderator tells you to. I would hate to do something to harm your fish rather than help. But you COULD order those, and IF they are needed you would hopefully have them in time.. I did overnight shipping. They added about $20 to the total, but I didn't care.. In my case, we discussed it, and believe Sheldon was suffering more than we knew, and even the MM"s would not have helped. BUT, there is a chance?

Hang in there hun.. I'll check back on you in a few hours...(if not sooner knowing me lol)

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Again, Sue has given you fantastic advice (I'll say it again hun, I am sooo very proud of you!! :D ) and it may well be an idea for sunshinegurl to order Metromeds simply because unless opened they will keep for ages until such time as you might just need them. However, it is quite normal for fins to be damaged by ich. Each colony of trophozoites (the feeding stage- each white spot you can see contains thousands of the b*s) does as much damage perforating and eroding skin tissue as it does actually feeding off the fishes slime coat. As Sue said, one of the worst things about parasites is their ability to inject into the fish secondary microbial infections. Obviously the less number of ich colonies (spots) on the fish the less the risk, fish have immunity and can ward off quite an amazing amount of pathogens given the right living conditions.

Because of the "Number of overwhelming factors present" feature of so many fish diseases, recovery is often in direct proportion to how many threats are on board. For example (and in your case sunshinegirl) a few ich spots + perfect water+ salt treatment = low if any mortality BUT the same few ich spots + bad water + salt= much higher mortality likelyhood and then final case scenario- caught late, many spots + bad water + salt = guaranteed high mortality/fatality.

Think of a fishes fins like our hair and nails. Given good food, low stress, happy home, hair shines and nails look healthy- its the same with fishes fins. They are the first places to show stress. On top of that you have the damage from the ich....BUT salt is also a great healer for fins. It is a mild antiseptic for fish, so with the regular vacs and water changes and replacing the salt each time -you are still on track and doing all you can for the moment :)

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Wow.. I must have "known" you were on here feeling bad, because I went to bed, watched a show, layed down for a while, then got up to check the weather forcast, and crazy me had to view new posts LMAO Glad I did.

Thanks so much for checking...soon after I did all the water changes and posted this..I went to bed..so couldn't check..I did read the posts u and Trinket had this morning...but I had to do another small water change to vacuum the bottom and leave for work...Thanks for replying so soon...

Right now I would suggest to keep his stress levels down as much as possible. Keep the tank dark. (You can use a towel to completely keep it in the dark). Try as hard as you can to give him (her?) some quiet and time to heal.

I have been using a blanket to cover all around the tank and the lights are OFF for the past 2 days....they are exposed to light only during water changes...its pretty quiet..I am sure both are also sleepy given the fact its dark almost all the time...but it kind of bothers me now.. :(

Don't give up!!! In any case, you are NOT failing. You are doing everything you can do, and doing everything RIGHT. I completely understand how you feel. Believe me when I say I went through the same thing.. I honestly went to bed tonight, and sat and talked to my boyfriend about YOUR fish lol.. Saying how I hope they get better.. So believe me, I know how you feel. My stomach hurts thinking about your fish being sick, so you must be twenty times more upset.. I am going to give you the link to my thread.. It's LONG, and confusing in the beginning. There are a few posts by different people (including Trinket) which may help?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=69521

I totally know...with the kind of involvement with me getting to treat them right...I totally believe you discussing it too.. :) ..thans for being so concerned..I truly truly appreciate it.. :thanks

Last, I don't want to give you the wrong advice, but at the same time, if I don't say this next thing I will kick myself, just in case.. In Sheldon's case we decided to try to give him MetroMeds from Goldfish Connection.. (After we gave him a week to try to heal naturally) However, they did not arrive in time, and by the time they came, he was no longer eating.. If you would like to, you could order those, but I strongly suggest you not use meds until a moderator tells you to.

Awesome advice..Metromeds is a gr8 idea...

But I tried to order some this morning..and the site does not let me view the transaction..there is some problem with their connection... :wall ...I don't know...I checked again after coming to work..in the hope of getting thru on this strong network..but no luck... :krazy:

I am trying to call my local lfs...its an awesome store for things tht usually not others carry in our area...but they aren't picking up the phone...I am not liking this situation...I had ordered some food, conditioner from GFC a couple of days back..I wish I had ordered MetroMeds too... :(

I will try my level best to order that..or get it from somewhere... :cry1

Hang in there hun.. I'll check back on you in a few hours...

This is exactly what I told my fish this morning when I left for work...I am leaving early to check on them...But well the good part is that when I changed some water this morning..they both swam fr a bit and also begged for food...I fed them a pea...and got all the remains from the bottom making it clean again..I hope they get thru all this...

I am positive...and trying to make it right... :) ..

Thanks to you and Trinket for being around.. :)

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Again, Sue has given you fantastic advice (I'll say it again hun, I am sooo very proud of you!! :D ) and it may well be an idea for sunshinegurl to order Metromeds simply because unless opened they will keep for ages until such time as you might just need them. However, it is quite normal for fins to be damaged by ich. Each colony of trophozoites (the feeding stage- each white spot you can see contains thousands of the b*s) does as much damage perforating and eroding skin tissue as it does actually feeding off the fishes slime coat. As Sue said, one of the worst things about parasites is their ability to inject into the fish secondary microbial infections. Obviously the less number of ich colonies (spots) on the fish the less the risk, fish have immunity and can ward off quite an amazing amount of pathogens given the right living conditions.

Yeah I totally understand..I am sure the little piggies must be so stressed...MetroMeds is a very good idea, Sue suggested..and thanks for confirming it...I tried to order it but the GFC site is having issues at the moment.I hope I am in luck and I get them in time...

Because of the "Number of overwhelming factors present" feature of so many fish diseases, recovery is often in direct proportion to how many threats are on board. For example (and in your case sunshinegirl) a few ich spots + perfect water+ salt treatment = low if any mortality BUT the same few ich spots + bad water + salt= much higher mortality likelyhood and then final case scenario- caught late, many spots + bad water + salt = guaranteed high mortality/fatality.

Think of a fishes fins like our hair and nails. Given good food, low stress, happy home, hair shines and nails look healthy- its the same with fishes fins. They are the first places to show stress. On top of that you have the damage from the ich....BUT salt is also a great healer for fins. It is a mild antiseptic for fish, so with the regular vacs and water changes and replacing the salt each time -you are still on track and doing all you can for the moment :)

Yeah you are right...it shows in their fins first...I can only hope they get better..with all the water changes and the treatment at the moment...Is there some place else I can get MetroMeds from...Any hope of getting it other than the GFC site...or some way to contact them in order to get them??..I hope I get them in time...

It just struck me Sue and Trinket...what and how much should I feed them???..I am sure if given some food they will get a bit stronger to fight the disease?? What should I feed them??..I have the Hikari sinking pellets..that I soak for about 5-7 minutes before feeding...should I feed a few pellets in te evening???Anything else to be fed???

Thank you Trinket for being there.. :)

Edited by SunshineGurl
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(I'll say it again hun, I am sooo very proud of you!! :D )

YOU are gonna make me cry Imogen! : ) In a good way of course!

it may well be an idea for sunshinegurl to order Metromeds simply because unless opened they will keep for ages until such time as you might just need them.

Exactly!!! I am so lucky that I had them on hand, from Sheldon, and then they are what saved Samantha!!! I believe I will always make sure to have them on hand now for emergencies.

But I tried to order some this morning..and the site does not let me view the transaction..there is some problem with their connection... :wall ...I don't know...I checked again after coming to work..in the hope of getting thru on this strong network..but no luck... :krazy:
Is there some place else I can get MetroMeds from...Any hope of getting it other than the GFC site...or some way to contact them in order to get them??..I hope I get them in time...

I believe MetroMeds are only available through Goldfish Connection. However, you can call them, and they will be more than happy to deal with you on the phone, if the internet is giving you trouble.

This is from their website:

If you have any questions or problems, send an e-mail to rick@goldfishconnection.com place goldfish, goldfish in the subject line. Or phone 814-864-3908 between 10 am and 4 pm EST weekdays. Product or order information only please.

There is a particular thread I would like to search for about food.. If I can't find it I'll post in my own words, but I am going to look for it real quick : ) I'll be back : ) (okay terminator! LOL)

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