Dropsy And Nitrite Spikes

[soky]

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level? 0 ppm

Nitrite Level? 1 ppm (before a 90% WC)

Nitrate level? 10ppm (before a 90% WC)

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? Ph 7

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? Ph ~7, GH ~0

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) API drops

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 9 gallons, about 1-2 months

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? Aquaclear 20

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Every few days, about half

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 fish, about 1"

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Amquel+, crushed coral

[*]Any medications added to the tank? there was prazi and .1% Salt before the WC. Just tried to feed him metromeds

[*]Add any new fish to the tank? just the one, a few weeks ago

[*]What do you feed your fish? tetrafin goldfish crisps, but only every third day since the nitrite started spiking

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? slightly dropsied fins, and he's fatter than he was. Poop was slightly stringy when I first got him, but mostly normal now.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? Bottom sits occasionally

I have no luck with fish. I did a fishless cycle, but ever since the first water change I've been having nitrite spikes. I've been trying to keep that down with WCs. When I checked on him this morning he looked a little fat and, sure enough, he was starting to pinecone. He had two scales behind his gills that had always looked like they weren't flush, but I figured it was just the shape of his body and the size of his scales (which it still could have been, I suppose). I'm trying to get him to eat metromeds I have left over from when Ace had dropsy (they don't expire until the end of the month, good timing), but even soaked and cut in half he can't seem to eat them. He just chews a bit, spits them out, and tries again. Ace did that too at first, so maybe he just has to learn how to eat them? Anyway, in his tank he has some Java Moss and an airstone, but what do I do for the dropsy? I missed his last Prazi treatment (oops...), can flukes cause dropsy? I have some epsom salts I could try, but the aquarium salt isn't 100% gone yet (about .01% concentration now). Can epsom salts and prazi mix? Could something in my tank be giving my fish dropsy? I bleached it since losing Ace, could something survive that?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm just worried whatever mystery illness got Ace will get Sunny too.

[koko]

When you said you cleaned the tank, did you clean the filter too?

Whats the temp in the tank?

Do you have Maracyn2?

Can you get me a pic so I can see how far the dropsy has gotten to>

If hes having a hard time eating the food you can try to pinch it or soak it just for 30-40 secs to let it get soft for him

[CountryLovah]

Hey Alyssa. I obviously can't give you any better advice than Koko, but I just wanted to write and say that I am sorry to hear that Sunny is not doing well. Especially after you lost Ace to the same thing, this must be really hard for you.. I really hope she recovers, I don't want to see you have to lose another fish. Get better Sunny!

[soky]

When you said you cleaned the tank, did you clean the filter too?

Whats the temp in the tank?

Do you have Maracyn2?

Can you get me a pic so I can see how far the dropsy has gotten to>

If hes having a hard time eating the food you can try to pinch it or soak it just for 30-40 secs to let it get soft for him

I cleaned the filter, threw out anything that was replaceable, and bleached it after Ace died, but I haven't touched it since I cycled the tank afterwards. The temp is around 77-80 (79 at the moment). Can that cause/contribute to dropsy? I don't have any Maracyn2, but if they sell it at the LFS I can get it tomorrow.

Unfortunately, I can't get any pics. My camera just refuses to focus on him. Maybe I can borrow a better one tomorrow. It doesn't seem far along yet though. They definitely aren't flush, but if you don't look closely you might not notice. He is fat though. Still swimming and foraging, so I'm still hopeful.

He seems to have finally managed to eat the meds. Either that or he hid it really well. I'll try cutting it in thirds this time instead of in half. Now I know how my parents felt trying to make me eat veggies.

Thanks for the help and support. These guys sure make you work for them.

[spider man]

it sounds like your tank has not fully cycled yet. I can take several weeks for this process to happen. Why do you use crushed coral. That can really make your ph very high. I have great luck with metromeds and jump start that rick sells at the goldfish connection for dropsy like conditions. I feed both foods concurrently for about two weeks. Remember if you placing meds like maryacyn or others directly in your tank, some of those meds will break down the beneficial bacteria in your tank. Dropsy is really a series of conditions that causes the fish to look pine conned. It is basically a build up of fluids on the vital organs causing them to eventually shut down. It can be caused by both bacterial and viral conditions. If your fishes conditions is not too bad, I would just go with the metromeds and jump start foods for two weeks. You can also raise your water temp to 80 degress providing you have a good air stone to keep the water well oxygenated. Certain types of goldfish pathogens cannot live in higher water temps, just monitor your fish and make sure he is not stressed by those higher temps. I would also take out that crushed coral not unless you are using it to keep your ph up. There are other products on the market that can help with that. Finally do not give up you are really doing a great job overall

[soky]

Thanks spider man. The coral is in there because my tap water has no GH/KH and the Ph would drop to about 6.4 really quickly without it. I really wish I knew why the second half of my cycle crashed. Stupid bacteria.

An update: Sunny seems a little better. This morning he was active and happy. Most of the bloating was gone and his scales were more flush. He's less active now, but the dropsy isn't getting worse. When I checked this afternoon, the Nitrite was still under .25 ppm. I'll keep him on the metromeds, but should I still use any other meds? Or would that be overmedicating him? I don't think keeping the water warm will be a problem, I can never seem to cool it off.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Alyssa

[spider man]

keep feeding the metromeds for at least two weeks or until his symptoms are gone. Order the Jump Start food from rick at goldfish connection. It reestablishes healthy bacteria inside the fish stomach. Like I said before I use metro meds and jump start together and have had great results. Once the fish recovers slowly start them back on their regular food. Hopefully you are feeding a good pellet food, shelled peas, just feed in very small amounts because the fish is still weak. Look for another product on the market to bring your ph up. Crushed coral will bring your ph up to the 8.0-8.5 levels when it shouls be around 7.0-7.5. You must have well water from your tap as to why the ph is so low. Hopefully your tank will cycle. Do not use those bacteria kits that you can buy that claim that it will instantly establish beneficial bacteria, they really do not work well at if any. Finally I think you said your tank is nine gallons, that is really too small for a goldfish even a small one. I know that everyone states the ten gallon per fish rule but what they fail to understand is the mass of the fish. Goldfish are massive, even small ones. When you can, try to upgrade to a least a twenty gallon long tank. Right now monitor your water daily and conduct water changes as necessary. Only vacum half the gravel each time you do water changes because you can be removing benefical bacteria if you vacumn the entire tank especially on newly establish systems--hopes this helps you

[soky]

It never occurred to me that the cycle would build itself mostly in my gravel. Those bacteria are driving me nuts. Nitrite are back down to 0, so maybe it recycled. I'll be sure not to bother all of the gravel next time I clean it.

Yeah, I know 9 is a little small (it was used, and I thought it was a 10 when I got it). Someday I'd love 2 fish in a 30 gallon, but it's just not gonna work out until I graduate from college and get my own place. As long as it stays cycled, I don't mind changing water a few times a week.

Thanks again, I'll keep an eye on him and keep him on his meds. I got some jump start with the meds last time, so maybe I'll give him a few of those too.

[koko]

If you order something from goldfishconnection. Buff it up will help you out alot if you have KH/PH problems. Its a powder that keeps the levels up. All you need to do is: when you do a water change add like a teaspoon in the tank, then test it see were the levels are, if still to low add another and so on till you get the right level. Then once you find the right level you just add this to your tank every time you do a water change.

A PH crash can cause the tank to loose the cycle very easily

As for the Dropsy, keep doing what you are doing, if the scales come back out then I would get some Maracyn2

Have you added Epsom salt?

[soky]

No, I didn't add any epsom salt. I remember Ace not liking it, so I was hoping to avoid it if he got better. The dropsy is either gone or hiding now, so I'll just keep an eye on the water and keep up the metromeds. The tank seems to have re-cycled, which should help. I'll have to look into buff-it-up, but that all depends on how much money my college takes.

Now he seems to have a fungus (white cottony "spider webs" on him and his plants, which I threw out) so I'll try raising the (aquarium) salt back up to .3%. Poor little guy just can't catch a break.

Thanks again for the help.

[spider man]

my guess that his condition was not dropsy. Keep feeding him those metromeds and consider getting the jump start food. I have a feeling that your problem is related to water quality more then anything. Koko is right, try that product rather then your crushed coral, may be when you are doing your water changes you are changing the ph too drastically, your fish is living in a very high ph environment with the crushed coral, when you change your water you may be lowering the ph significantly, I am glad that the fish is doing better

[spider man]

those white spider webs on him and your plants may not be a fungus but rather a bacteria bloom, your tank may be cycling all over again. Just monitor the water quality very closely. Sometimes the water will become a bit cloudy with the metomeds, just keep doing the water changes and monitor your water quality very closely