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Oranda With Red Nodule On Head


Guest zet

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My first post and unfortunately in the Decease Diagnosis section! I apologize for not having all the requested data but we had this aquarium for three years now without any problem and never did much of water testing.

The other day when feeding the fish, I spotted that the oranda developed a red nodule on its head. It looks like one of its regular nodules of the wen turned red. After initial search on the web I thought it was a parasite, so I applied a parasite clear tablet. Yesterday I took the fish to a local pet store but they were not able to diagnose properly the condition. They gave me Aquari-Sol (cooper sulfate) and some salt to treat the tank. I did complete water change yesterday and applied the medicine. The fish is otherwise behaving as usual. I am concerned that it may be an infection and don't know how to proceed.

After much online search I finally found this forum and was happy to discover it is a very active one so I am hoping someone will be familiar with this condition. Any advice will be greatly appreciated as I would hate to lose this beautiful fish.

[*]Test Results for the Following: Not available. Don't have tester handy.

Ammonia Level?

Nitrite Level?

Nitrate level?

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?

10 gallons, Running about three years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?

External power filter Whisper 5-15 Medium

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly about 25%, monthly all water

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 fish, about 6 inch each

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Chlor Out

[*]Any medications added to the tank? Now that I saw this problem I added Parasite Clear, Aquari-Sol and salt (the last two advised by pet store), otherwise no medications were used

[*]Add any new fish to the tank? No

[*]What do you feed your fish? Tetra Fin Goldfish flakes, green peas

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? One of the nodules on the oranda's head (part of the wen) turned red)

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? Other than the color change he is eating and behaving as usual. He does have tendency to swim upside down from time to time but already for some time.

And here is a picture:

oranda.jpg

And another shot showing it all:

P1020145.jpg

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  • Regular Member

HI Zet and welcome to the board! : )

You say that you don't have a testing kit handy.. Is there any way you could either buy one, or take a sample of your water to a local store and have it tested there??? In general, adding medication to water when you are uncertain of those test results can be a very risky thing.. If the water is not perfect the very medicine you are adding can actually become toxic to the fish. It is important that you ask them for ACTUAL numbers. Don't just let them tell you that the numbers are fine. Sometimes "fine" to someone at a fish store is actually not fine at all. Even better would be if you could purchase your own drop testing kit! It's easily overlooked, but essential to have on hand for keeping your fish healthy.

Also, in many cases water itself can be the cause of the illness, and having perfect water can be the best medicine for your fish.. Right now without knowing what your water tests are, it's hard to tell if the spot is coming from poor water quality or something else.

That being said, your tank is unfortunatly overstocked.. Fancy goldfish require ten gallons of water each, and with the two larger fish you have, a 10 gallon tank is really not large enough of a home for them both... I made the same mistake. I had 6 goldies in a 29 gallon. With the amount of fish you have in there now, you really want to be doing a larger weekly water change. More like 75-80% weekly, and then continuing doing the 100% monthly that you are doing.

Although medication MAY be the way to go, adding it right now without your test results scares me. Also sometimes medications can't be used together... In my opinion the best thing you can do right now is to get those results, then do a full 100% water change, matched for temperature and treated with a dechlorinator only.. Then hopefully a moderator will be along to help you with whether to medicate or not. Or if you can't the water tested soon, save a sample of the water in a container, then do the water change. (But keep that old water so you can have it tested). I'm still fairly new to fishkeeping, and this site, so someone more experienced will best be able to help you with the details, but I do know that medications are always recommended AFTER making sure that the water quality is correct.

Good luck with getting your fish back to help. I am confident that there are plenty of people that will be able to help you once we have all the information!! : )

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Thank you for replying CountryLovah and providing helpful comments!

I'm home with a newborn so I am not as mobile as I wish I could be but I will be heading back to the pet store tomorrow morning to purchase the testing kit. I actually saved the water from before the change and have a sample of the current water. I went out today to doctor's apps with the baby and was hoping I would pass by a pet store to have the water tested but did not have a chance. I wish the pet store suggested testing the water when I was there with the fish and the water the other day. Oh well, live and learn. I have learned so much in the last 48 hours just by reading all the info online! I also realized the tank maybe too small for these two guys :-(

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You have a newborn at home? Well why didn't you say so in the first place? LOL Of course you are completely busy right now!!! LOL When my daughter was a baby I don't think I had time for ANYTHING.. : ) Let alone money lol

That's wonderful that you are planning on getting the test kit tommorrow. It's a great investment when it comes to fish. I think I am on my 4th API master test kit right now. Ever since I found this board I am a crazy water tester! lol..Pet stores can be sooo tricky. I talked to SOO many people when I was trying to take care of my fish, and got strange and inconsistent answers from everyone.. Then I found this board and it all makes sense. I was in the SAME boat as you. Didn't test my water properly, overstocked, meds in the water that maybe weren't even the right meds... It's hard to find the right information. I think you will be pleased with all the info you can get here and the people you will meet.

Post back when you get those tests.. Like I said I pretty new to this, but I've been reading on here A LOT.. There are many cases when fixing the water is all that is needed. When meds are needed, the board moderators are really good at helping people decide the correct ones... You also provided really good clear pictures which will help SOOOO much!!

As for the tank being so small. You have a few options. Buying a larger tank is one (money wise maybe not though haha). Using a rubbermaid temporarily is also something that has proved really useful for a lot of people (I did it recently when I got new fish before my tank was ready).. And third, you can temporarily ease the problems with extra water changes. In the long run a larger tank will be easier for the fish AND you..

I'll check back on you tommorrow and see how things go!! : ) Take care!!

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Hello and welcome!

What a beautiful fish you have there :)

CountryLovahs advice about getting a test kit and also your hunch that the tank is now too small for your big fish are probably the main things to focus on here.

The bloodfilled lump you see is part of the wen that I think is probably infected. In this position (isolated colony) it's probable the fish will not show any symptoms and hopefully it wont spread. Quite possibly the best treatment will be a) a topical application ONCE only of people-use-it- kind hydrogen peroxide, a small amount on a cotton bud wiped gently on the surface of the blister b) a larger home c) some nutritious food treats like krill and shrimp and peas and kiwi to build immune strength and d) special attention to water quality.

You can also add salt to 0.1% as a tonic and healer.

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Again thank you for the warm welcome.

All right, after visiting three stores I got the last API testing kit in the last store and tested the water.

Current water conditions:

* water temperature: 78.9 F

Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? 5

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.6 (the high level test showed 7.4)

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap? 7.6

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?) drops

the old water had:

Ammonia Level? 0.5

Nitrite Level? 0.5

Nitrate level? 40

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.6 (the high level test showed 7.4)

I also applied the hydrogen peroxide. Silly question, after application was I supposed to keep the fish out of the water for a while (how long a while) or move it right back to the tank. I scooped the fish with the net, applied the peroxide and moved back to the tank.

And now I need to run to feed the baby!!! Thank you for your help !

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Hi and welcome.

They gave me Aquari-Sol (cooper sulfate) and some salt to treat the tank. I did complete water change yesterday and applied the medicine.

I just wanted to add that copper is very toxic. I would do a 100% if you can find any time and get rid of the lot!

Do NOT put your hands in this water without gloves - copper is a heavy metal and a poison; you are presumably breast feeding so this goes double for you.

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Hi Zet!!! The good news is your current water conditions are VERY good! I wish I could get MY nitrates that low, but my tap water has nitrates and so I have a hard time getting them lower than 15... The water they are in right now will be perfect for helping them to heal. As for the PH, did you try using the high range Ph drop test?? My kit comes with a regular one and a high range one. I also have a high PH in my tank and so when I do the reg test it doesn't go high enough. Using the high range one it's around 8.2. Either way PH does not sound like a problem in your case.

As always, I can't be 100% sure, but I had to use HP on a fish recently that had a Anchor Worm. Trinket helped me with that and she didn't mention anything about leaving the fish out of water for an extended period of time. These were her directions for me:

You should really disinfect the spot after removing the worm (if you are sure you have the worm out) a cotton bud dipped in hp is best for this. One quick wipe is all it needs, just above the water level (never remove the fish for longer than 30 secs).

However, you did have some ammonia and nitrites in the water. It could be because the two fish are large, and the biological filter just can't handle the amount of ammonia your two fish are producing... How much are you feeding them?? Once a day is usually enough. See if you can make time to check the water daily for a few days now and see if the ammonia and nitrite creep back up. If they don't, then you have a fully cycled tank, and you can avoid more problems by increasing your water changes. If they DO show up, then you will have to do daily partial water changes to keep those lower.. A fully cycled tank will always show ammonia at zero and nitrite at zero. I

You also may want to consider upgrading your filter.. I didn't realize this, but goldfish need stronger filters to keep up with the waste they produce.. If you have LARGER goldfish you will want even more filtration. Right now I have a Penguin 200 filter on my 10 gallon QT tank. It has two medium sized orandas in there temporarily.. I used to keep the Whsiper Internal Filter on the tank, and by upgrading to the Penguin 200 I saw some major improvments. It has a lot of extra space for extra filter material and it has really worked well for me..

Hopefully this fresh water and treatment will have helped. (**Edit** I just saw Pixie's post. When you wrote current conditions that was AFTER a 100% water change correct?) And don't forget that you can add the salt as Trinket suggested. Salting to 0.1% means adding a teaspoon of salt for each gallon of water. Just get a small amount of tank water, measure out the salt, and dissolve it in the tank water. Stir it around a bunch and once it's dissolved add the solution back to the tank.. There are many different salts that are okay. Many people use canning or pickling salt. I personally just buy the API Aquarium Salt. Its a bit expensive but I'm used to it and a creature of habit LOL Good luck with your cute little babies!!!!! (fish and real baby!!! LOL)

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Quote:

I just wanted to add that copper is very toxic. I would do a 100% if you can find any time and get rid of the lot!

Oh boy, this is becoming too much! Are you serious? Why do they sell this stuff?

I am running out of time here. This morning I observed a red spot under the skin of my other fish, Blacky. I am so heartbroken. This fish was the first one we got, it survived all the others (we only lost two). I am pasting a pic below. I am not sure if you can see it, I added an arrow to point to the spot. The other finding from this morning was some thick white poop in the tank. I read the Poop section of the website (this summer is WAY too busy for me!) but for the life of me I can't tell which case it is. It is as thick as regular poop but white inside. I think it is from Oranda because I saw Blacky with quite healthy poop this morning.

So, I put the carbon back and changed water partially so hopefully the copper will be filtered out. I tested the water again with a strip which checks for hardness so GH is 180 ppm (Hard) and alkalinity (KH) is 100.

CountryLovah, the results I reported previously under current conditions were AFTER the water change ( I did use the high range test but it was still showing the ph around 7.4). I figured we must have good water since we went that far without any issues. But the fish got big, the temperatures are higher now and I did see the tank getting muddier faster. So I learned a lot in the process although I am not sure if I am saving these two guys right now (still very much counting on it!!!). A bigger tank is temporarily not an option as it would need bigger stand, bigger stand needs more space etc. and I don't have that space or time to deal with it. I was wondering whether a bigger filter would help and I am glad you mentioned that.

I can't stress enough how grateful I am for your extensive comments. Thank you!

P1020245rev.jpg

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I wanted to share good news! The red nodule on the oranda is gone! I guess it must have fallen off. I will continue to monitor Blacky and of course the water conditions!

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Oh boy, this is becoming too much! Are you serious? Why do they sell this stuff?

I wondered the same thing. Someone explained it to me like this. While the medications CAN be effective, they also can be damaging to weaker fish. For someone raising a large amount of fish, that aren't emotionally attached to one particular fish, it can be helpful, because it kills the bad, but you also risk losing some of the sicker or weaker fish. For people keeping a fish as a hobby, we don't want to risk losing them. So the safer gentler options are better.

With the carbon and a partial water change you have removed some of the meds.. If you can find the time, a full 100% water change would be wonderful. You can rest assured that none of the medicines are in the water, and you can be sure that your fish has the cleanest best water it can have.

If your PH is at 7.4 thats a great number!!! One of the most important things when it comes to PH is that it is consistent...Some members here have fish in higher PH ( Mine is generally 8.2) and they fish are fine as long as it doesn't vary. SO PH really doesn't seem to be a problem here.

A bigger tank is temporarily not an option as it would need bigger stand, bigger stand needs more space etc. and I don't have that space or time to deal with it.

If you can't get a bigger tank, then I strongly suggest keeping up with the extra water changes.. You could also try searching craiglist for a cheap used tank.. There are some REALLY good deals. You may be surprised at what you can find for cheap!!! I got a tank AND stand at a price cheaper than if I had bought JUST the tank.. : )

wanted to share good news! The red nodule on the oranda is gone! I guess it must have fallen off. I will continue to monitor Blacky and of course the water conditions
This morning I observed a red spot under the skin of my other fish, Blacky.

I am glad that the one spot has clearer up. Hopefully that's a good sign!!!I am wondering if this spot will clear up like the other, now that you have better water.. Trinket, Pixie.. what do you think? (Calling in the experts lol)

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