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Guest tracey

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Guest tracey

Hi everyone, i am new here pleased to meet you all.

Ok I have a problem i think. I bought 3 fish 2yellow gold fish and a commet 4 days ago. One of them i thought was nice as it had a red stripe through down its back bone and around its gills. I thought (stupid me) it was its colour now thinking maybe first sign of illness. It looked very healthy eating swimming no marks so picked that one and another plus the commet who decided it wanted to come to. 2 days later i noticed a white like blister not cotton wool like growths only way i could describe was like a blister a few hours later it was lying at the bottom of the tank and the white blister had red specs in but still ocasionally swimming and still eating. I went and asked at another forum but got no help. Tested water everything fine amonia a wee bit high so used ammolock but apart from that everything great and the other yellow fish and commet were fine to. I thought maybe a fungal infection so started using disease clear (king british)

Woke up this morning to find it lying dead in the plants with red blisters down its side :( sooo sad poor thing. NOW i am so worried incase it was contagious. The other yellow fish and commet are swimming around and looking great.

I searched the net but could find no info on anything it could of been.

Here are a few pics not great quality but can still see.

Photo316.jpg

This was it when first noticed it at the base of its tail

Photo320.jpg

This is it this morning the strange thing is that there was no redness on its gills and the red stripe they had gone but you can see the redness inderneath from the base of its tail all the way up.

Any info on this would help i don't want to lose my other fish :unsure: I am quite new to this fish thing so i guess still learning and errors are made.

A very concerned Tracey

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Hi Tracey, I'm sorry about your goldfish :( . You can be sure that the people on this forum will try their very best to help you.

To be able to help you, we need you to answer as much of the following as you are able to do, we can get a better idea of the situation.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level?

Nitrite Level?

Nitrate level?

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Add any new fish to the tank?

[*]What do you feed your fish?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..?

(Also, for any moderator reading this, I'd suggest moving this post to the Disease Diagnosis forum)

Edited by Erinaceus
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Guest tracey
Hi Tracey, I'm sorry about your goldfish :( . You can be sure that the people on this forum will try their very best to help you.

To be able to help you, we need you to answer as much of the following as you are able to do, we can get a better idea of the situation.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level?

Nitrite Level?

Nitrate level?

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Add any new fish to the tank?

[*]What do you feed your fish?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..?

(Also, for any moderator reading this, I'd suggest moving this post to the Disease Diagnosis forum)

I know i am getting wrong readings as the tank is still cycling. Thing is all of the fish where great till i bought those 3. Also update went to sit have have a good look at the fish and my 2 shubunkins have red gills and my fantail is gasping at the surface.

Ammonia- .25

Nitrite- 1.0

Nitrate- 10

Brand of test kit- API (drops)

Tank size- 60l (UK).

Running time- 2 weeks upgrade from smaller tank but used 50% of existing water.

Filter - fluval 3plus

Water changes- change every 2 days aprox 30%

Fish amount and size- 2 black moors, 1 fantail, 2 shubunkins, 1 yellow fish 2", 1 small comet 2" and 2 small plecs

Water conditioners and additives- Aquasafe water dechlorinator Stressguard

Medications- used one 1/2 does (because of plecs) disease free king british

New fish- 1 blackmoore, 2 (one now dead) yellow fish and a small comet

Food- King british gold fish flakes, the odd squished pea and one live plant

Findings- red gills and 1 gasping at surface. others gulping in water now and again especially the ones with red gills. Dead one had kind of blisters on back end that spread all red. Also near the end where the waste comes from looks like black mass (thought could be constipation)

Eating- All eating fine but so was the other one till suddenly died

Edited by tracey
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I know i am getting wrong readings as the tank is still cycling. Thing is all of the fish where great till i bought those 3. Also update went to sit have have a good look at the fish and my 2 shubunkins have red gills and my fantail is gasping at the surface.

Ammonia- .25

Nitrite- 1.0

I'm sorry about your goldfish.

The nitrite is way to high and that is why he is gasping at the surface. Try to do at least an 80 % waterchange with temp matched and dechlorinated water daily.

I've read in your post that you have 6 goldfish and 2 plecs in a 60l tank (not gallons), is this right? if so you have way to much fish in one tank. Do you think you could get something bigger? as a rule of tumb a fancy needs 10 US gal (37.5 liters) and a common/commet 20 US gal (75 liters) as goldfish are coldwaterfish and produce a lot of waste.

A mod will give you a lot more info

Edited by Quasi
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Guest tracey

Ohhh my i had no idea awww i feel terrible for my fish now i am definately going to get a bigger tank thank you for letting me know as i am new to all this and some things can be so confussing. I never knew it could be so much trouble having some nice fish to liven up my sitting room. So a regular water change everyday will drop the nitrite. My dechlorinater also says drops nitrite. i do have these grains in bags that go in the filter that take out impurities but they don't fit my filter :(

if i add ammolock do you think this will help also?

So is this whyt my fish have red gills or do you think could be something diff?

Also noticed since the water change today they have clamped fins but the water temp was matched near perfect so its not cold shock.

Tracey

Edited by tracey
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Ohhh my i had no idea awww i feel terrible for my fish now i am definately going to get a bigger tank thank you for letting me know as i am new to all this and some things can be so confussing. I never knew it could be so much trouble having some nice fish to liven up my sitting room. So a regular water change everyday will drop the nitrite. My dechlorinater also says drops nitrite. i do have these grains in bags that go in the filter that take out impurities but they don't fit my filter :(

if i add ammolock do you think this will help also?

So is this whyt my fish have red gills or do you think could be something diff?

Also noticed since the water change today they have clamped fins but the water temp was matched near perfect so its not cold shock.

Tracey

One thing first: Most people here started out with too much goldfish in a too small tank, noticed that the fish got sick and looked for a solution, so don't blame yourself ;)

About those clamped fins, do you know what the pH of the tank and the tab is? if this differs to much (more than 0.2 difference), they get stressed (like clamped fins). I thought that the pH for goldies should be between 7.2 and 8. Also never forget to ad diclorinator to the water as chloride can damage the gills of the fish.

Those big daily waterchanges should keep your nitrite and your ammonia low.

One thing though: do you have gravel in your tank? If yes? houw much?

Edited by Quasi
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Ohhh my i had no idea awww i feel terrible for my fish now i am definately going to get a bigger tank thank you for letting me know as i am new to all this and some things can be so confussing. I never knew it could be so much trouble having some nice fish to liven up my sitting room. So a regular water change everyday will drop the nitrite. My dechlorinater also says drops nitrite. i do have these grains in bags that go in the filter that take out impurities but they don't fit my filter :( if i add ammolock do you think this will help also?

The most part of this forum's member came here with a small tank and a lot of goldfish, and most (myself included) learn a lot about taking care of goldfish in a short time, because of all the really experiences people that participate here :) .

It's possible that your dechlorinater can also decrease the nitrate levels, but doing a large water chance is a sure way of quickly and greatly lowering your bioload (nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, among other things). For this, take into account the following: a 60% w/c decreases your bioload by 60% (e.g. new nitrate = 0.40 x old nitrate level). Two consecutive w/cs of e.g. 60% will decrease your bioload levels even more (new nitrate = 0.40 x 0.40 x old nitrate = 16% of old nitrate level). Keeping this in mind, try to keep your levels below the recommended levels: nitrate<0.20 and nitrate<20 (this post might also be of interest to you).

So is this whyt my fish have red gills or do you think could be something diff?

Also noticed since the water change today they have clamped fins but the water temp was matched near perfect so its not cold shock.

Tracey

I'm hoping a moderator will drop by soon to give some experienced advice on this.

About those clamped fins, do you know what the pH of the tank and the tab is? if this differs to much (more than 0.2 difference), they get stressed (like clamped fins). I thought that the pH for goldies should be between 7.2 and 8. Also never forget to ad diclorinator to the water as chloride can damage the gills of the fish.

Those big daily waterchanges should keep your nitrite and your ammonia low.

One thing though: do you have gravel in your tank? If yes? houw much?

A pH between 7.2 and 8 is ideal for goldfish (with slight variation on these values depending on the source), but even if it's in the low 8's, it might be better to just leave it be then to try and change it, because that could backflip on you if you overshoot (higher pH values are far less dangerous than lower pH values).

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Guest tracey

Ok thank you i am trying to soak all this in off to test ph now............ok back ph is now aprox 7.2 so could be higher how would i up that?

Dechlorinator was all added when just done a change and ammo lock to. Yes i have gravel it is 1" deep. With the clamped fins will they overcome the stress maybe that was brought on when i did partial water change earlier.

Thank you for all this info i am sure i will get there in the end even if it means losing a few fish :(

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So sorry about your beautiful little fish.

I can vouch for the fact that getting the water right is key, and once that's right and you have your tank cycled (handling ammonia properly) plus a maintenance routine that works, they are really not so much trouble to take care of.

At this point, water changes are key, as Erinaceus says. At one point, I was doing 80% water changes every day, things were so bad! I, too, am curious about the gravel. It may be harboring harmful organisms that caused your fishes' problems. When you do a water change, are you vacuuming with a siphon?

For sure, the people here have all the details - sometimes more than your head can take in all it once! But after a while it all makes sense. I do think the goldfish liven up the place, and really are a lot of fun.

Welcome to Koko's!

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I should say that I'm still a bit new at this myself, and I especially don't know the medical stuff. But I will share what I have learned.

You can up your pH with baking soda. Might take some experimentation to figure out how much. Sometimes just a pinch would do it for me.

Your pH out of the tap is within the range that goldfish like (lucky you!) but Erinaceus said to keep it up where it is, so as not to stress the fish. If you decide at some point that you need to have a good product that ups the pH and keeps it steady, folks recommend Buff-It-Up available on-line from Goldfish Connection. You may not need it, though, in the long run.

I do think some of my early problems were caused by too much gravel. There must have been some nasty stuff living in there. Many people here recommend bare-bottom tanks, some don't go that far. I have a scattering of little rocks at the bottom, but I vacuum it a lot, and sometimes even take it out and boil it.

When some of the serious medical experts come on, you will get a lot of really excellent medical advice. But the first thing they always want to work on is understanding the water quality, and getting that right, so you're off to a good start.

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Guest tracey

Thank you all for the welcomed advice. GUESS what i have just found on one of them i have no idea what it is ewwww it was trying to suck my finger nail and lived for a longtime out of the water. I think it was some kind of parasite, i have put some white spot control in the water 1/2 dose because of plecs(so i was told to 1/2 anyway do not know how far true this is as i thought would weaken the meds and not work effectivley). as it says gets rid of white spot, trichodina, costia and other parasites. I managed to get some pics you can just make it out.

I thik the new fish brought along some nasties with them. Although none of the other fish have anything on them just red gills and the dead one also i looked at it and nothing on it either just like red blood blisters. I wonder could the live plant i bought could of had something living in it.

OH! my what a day i am having :( OH! yup i siphon the gravel UPDATE just looked on google at trichodina and guess what it causes the exact symptoms as the dead fish.

913e9c4e.jpg

8f67e7c2-1.jpg

Edited by tracey
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Guest tracey

No just been told its fish lice ewwwwwww how do i get rid of them :( obviously the treatment i have i don't think will kill them or will it as it says all parasites. So i wonder how it come in just spotted the one up to now.

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Guest tracey
Tracey, don't use th baking soda. A pH of 7.2 is just perfect!

Ok thanks i will leave it. i was not going to anyway incase i made a mistake.

Any ideas how to get rid of lice?

My fantail has stopped eating to i went to give last feed and it usually is the boss at feeding time but not even interested still in the corner gulping at the surface even after water change and ammo lock :(

Edited by tracey
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Sorry for the double post. I wanted to make sure you didn't try to change you pH before I read any further.

At this point, water changes are key, as Erinaceus says. At one point, I was doing 80% water changes every day, things were so bad! I, too, am curious about the gravel. It may be harboring harmful organisms that caused your fishes' problems. When you do a water change, are you vacuuming with a siphon?

You can up your pH with baking soda. Might take some experimentation to figure out how much. Sometimes just a pinch would do it for me.

Your pH out of the tap is within the range that goldfish like (lucky you!) but Erinaceus said to keep it up where it is, so as not to stress the fish. If you decide at some point that you need to have a good product that ups the pH and keeps it steady, folks recommend Buff-It-Up available on-line from Goldfish Connection. You may not need it, though, in the long run.

Buff it up is indeed used by a lot of people. My girlfriend and I haven't had need for it, but I have heard nothing but good things about it. I wouldn't use it 'just in case' though, not unless one of the more experienced members can vouch that doing that can't hurt (e.g. in the case of medication, giving some when it's not required can do more harm than good).

I do think some of my early problems were caused by too much gravel. There must have been some nasty stuff living in there. Many people here recommend bare-bottom tanks, some don't go that far. I have a scattering of little rocks at the bottom, but I vacuum it a lot, and sometimes even take it out and boil it.

Yes, lantern is exactly right: a 'thick' layer of gravel can house anaerobic bacteria, which can (and will) produce toxins which will accumulate in the gravel layer. When the layer is distrurbed, e.g. by a goldfish looking for some food, some of the toxins can escape, with very bad and very quick effects. That's why it's essential that you keep your gravel 'clean' by syphoning it and, as lantern mentioned, treating it every so often (boiling is a fast and easy way to do this).

A note of caution: if you at the moment have a buildup, it might not be advisable to remove the gravel at this time, while the fish are in the tank, because that would possibly cause the very thing you set out to avoid. So wait for some more experienced member to give some advice on this issue.

When some of the serious medical experts come on, you will get a lot of really excellent medical advice. But the first thing they always want to work on is understanding the water quality, and getting that right, so you're off to a good start.

Completely true :) . When you take care of your water, your goldfish will usually take care of themselves :D . Also, while your water quality is not good, medicating can in fact be more dangerous than not medicating.

No just been told its fish lice ewwwwwww how do i get rid of them :( obviously the treatment i have i don't think will kill them or will it as it says all parasites. So i wonder how it come in just spotted the one up to now.

I have absolutely no expertise or knowledge when it comes to parasites. I hope a mod can offer some advice :( .

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:yikes Yikes!

For information on fish lice, you might try to read up on this:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Fish%20Lice.html

One might worry about putting too many different meds in at the same time, and the moderators really will have specific ideas about what to do, I'm sure.

Good point, Erinaceus, about stirring up nasty stuff in the gravel!

You can bring in new nasties with fish or with plants. There are techniques here on how to manage that, but that can be for another time.

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Guest tracey

:unsure: ok now i am stuck then i have an urge to clean out the tank tomorrow and boil the gravel and the ornaments as this would kill the lice eggs and any lice to wouldn't it hopefully it was just the odd one, one of the fish brought with it or off the plant as thats all i have noticed just that one this morning all the other fish have clean bodies, or am i just making things worse and should stick to 50% water changes to lower nitrite etc and not treat but then lice would multiply. Only thing is i medicated it with white spot parasite treatment for the lice (which now not sure if it would do anything anyway) hoping it would kill the lice now being told with not good water i maybe making things even more dangerous ohhhh i am in a tiz woz.

Still not sure what treatment to buy for the lice in the UK or will king british white spot still work?

I feel stuck in the middle not knowing which way to go for best for fear of losing my fish :( especially my fantail.

Any suggestions on what i should do in the morning? i don't want to stress the poor things anymore but feel ewww that there might be creepy crawlies around then don't want to treat because of water quality.

By the way thank you all soooo much for this info although i feel stuck your friendly advice has helped me i feel a little bit more at ease.

Edited by tracey
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Hopefully a moderator will come on soon to give better advice - I'd be sort of stuck just like you. The really medically knowledgable people are all over the world, and come in at various times. I am trying to think of the kinds of things that might come up in your discussion with them, in case someone comes on when you are asleep, so they can start to answer.

Have you got the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates down with water changes?

Are you using one med or two? You mentioned "disease free king british" and also "white spot control."

Do you know what the active ingredient in the med you are using has in it? In the article on this site on fish lice that I mentioned, it tells talks about meds, and maybe you are in fact already using it. (Of course, moderators may have other suggestions.)

Do you have aeration in the tank? And how about the size of your filter?

When you up upgraded from the smaller tank, do you have a filter for that tank, too, if you needed to set it up temporarily as a separate hospital tank?

Sorry again that I don't have more help to offer! :(

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Ok thanks for the advice. You know sometimes i wonder if the meds made them sick or that fish. Well whatever it is i guess i have to try and make them better. Going to do a 50% water change after breakfast. The fantail and blackmoor is still gulping at the top and not eating :( it sinks to the bottom for a few secs then swims back up. Also i was looking carefully at it and it looks like only one gill is working one side not moving at all :unsure: .

Well atleast still alive i guess all i can do is keep nitrite and amonia down. i think i will stop meds like you said it may make things worse and make them even more weak. i won't take out the gravel and boil it either as it will stress them even more and then the cycling will all go back to the begining again after 2 weeks. lets hope it was just an odd lice that was brought in and did not lay eggs although it probably has :krazy: I am such a worrier.

Edited by tracey
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At the moment I have nothing new to add (just do as you said in your last post, that seems best to me), but I just wanted to mention that I'll PM a moderator if nobody has passed by in a couple of hours.

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Hello Tracey, Welcome to Kokos. I hope you're still hanging in there with all the support from our wonderful members helping you. I just want to comment on a few things that stand out to me.

  • 1. These are fish lice and you will need dimilinor its British available equivalent to get rid of these asap. You can pick them off very carefully with tweezers meanwhile.
    2. Please do not use ammolock you will never cycle your tank with ammolock products since the cycle depends on trace ammonia to feed your beneficial bacteria that you are trying to grow as you cycle. It is these bbs that will over time (it takes at least 6 weeks of daily partial w/cs) keep your tank water and fish safe.
    3. All these symptoms are caused by pH issues/ammonia and nitrites in the water now and in the past- at the store- the internal bleeding you can see running through the inside of the fish is an acid burn form any or all of these water problems.
    4. You need to be doing a minimum of 50-60% water changes daily. Try to match these (with your finger is fine) for temperature and if you can match for ph too.
    5. Priority purchase is a kit to measure your nitrites and ammonia levels while cycling. A pH kit is essential.
    6. You are desperately overstocked and fish tend to die off to fit their space, so I suggest a larger tank or returning/finding homes for some of the fish.

Water quality is a science that we have to learn when keeping fish. Yes, suddenly those inexpensive pretty pet fish seem high maintenance but really the plain truth is they are only high maintenance for about 6 weeks. This is the time it takes to cycle a tank and after that its a very easy and enjoyable hobby I promise you!

We are here for you and any more questions you have :)

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Guest tracey

Hi thank you for the info. So i continue with water changes. When I done the change i put ammolock in :( thinking it was for best. So as i am doing water changes it should gradually fade? and new ammonia work to cycle won't it or would i need to do a full water change :( ohhh please i hope not i don't want to take them out if i can help it. Yes i am going to get a bigger tank as soon as they are feeling better. I thought it was just right for the size of the fish. BUUUUT i did have my eye on a lovely one in the garden centre was a bevelled one very fancy just have to be nice to other half lol.

My fantail seems to be sinking to the bottom now after floating at the top all day yesterday. Just hope it pulls through guess its a waiting game. seen no more lice on them checking daily hoping just was a odd one.

Thanks again

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Hi Tracey. Trinket really knows best, and you are now in good hands! If she says that 50-60% water changes minimium with no ammolock, go for it! When you do water tests, you will know if you have to change out more water. Sounds like she is focusing on water quality for sure, including the pH.

She did also mention the dimilin (or UK equivalent) for the fish lice. Is that listed as an ingredient in any of the products you have?

Yes, a bigger tank sounds great. In your small tank, it's going to be tough to keep the water in good condition.

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Hiya The only thing i can find at the moment is Interpet ANTI CRUSTACEAN PARASITE treatment. Will it be safe to use tho as people say not to use meds till waters stable? Just done a 50% water change wil test water in a minute after it has time to mix round although early days so probably everything still high. I just got to persevere and quickly get a bigger tank i will use the same filer tho well actually probably put 2 in as if i used a new one it will start a whole new cycle and i'll be back to square one :unsure: . When i had just the 2 in the 25l tank i used to use a product called waterlife safewater for goldfish and it had everything in it was only ?2 a great little product used to bring nitrite levels down and get rid of other chemical changes. Cannot find it in our garden centre now though :unsure: typical.

Also touch wood so to speak my fantail is looking more cheerful today although still not eating. Also had a good look and all clean scales. Although one blackmoore tail looks a bit grey like slime/mucous might of been the stressguard i tried the other day. Just a waiting game i guess.

Thank you all again i feel at ease here and i get alot of info and i will quickly learn :read:happydance

Edited by tracey
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