Jump to content

Poorly Fantail Could Die As I Type Please Help


Guest girlinspace

Recommended Posts

Guest girlinspace

just over a week ago I noticed my fantail goldfish sitting at the bottom of the tank. He had been in direct sunlight for 2 days and the algae was starting to build up as a result. I did about a 70% water change and cleaned the tank. I also stopped feeding him for 2 days to rule out constipation. On the 3rd day I just gave him some romaine lettuce and by the end of the 3 days he was up and swimming again. However, I noticed a red area on his body, not blotchy but more like a big dark patch under his scales. It didnt seem to bother the fish so didn't think anymore of it. A few days ago I noticed something on his belly (left side) that looked like some kind of spot growing under one of the scales and pushing it out. I also noticed that 2 of his fins had a very thin black line accross the top. The next morning his "spot thing" was fluffy white (which I presumed to be a secondary infection but this has cleared up) and he was starting to float lethargicly near the top with his tail fins down. I changed 10% of the water again then went to the pet store and explained his problems. I was given Myxazin (treatment for fin/body rot, ulcers, cloudy eye, raised viens and redness) for bacterial infections. He has had treatment for 2 days but has gone from bad to worse. yesterday he started sitting at the bottom again and today he looks completely lifeless. His breathing seems a bit shallow, the only thing moving is his eyes and he is leaning on one side with more redness on his side that looks kind of like briuses and is swelled out a little. He wont eat either and looks like he could die as I type this.

He is in a tank size of 18" x 10" x 10'. I put the treatment in the main tank as he is the only fish. I use bottled water (not spring or mineral) instaed of tap water as it seems a bit harsh around here. It has an airpump with an airstone and a seperate filter. I dont know what the levels are as I dont have any testers. Please help, I dont want him to die.

Should I carry on his treatment or treat him with something else

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hello and welcome to Koko's! I'm sorry to hear your fish is not well. I'm not an expert by any means, but I have a few suggestions.

* Get a water test kit as soon as possible. If that is not possible, take some water to the pet store and have then test it for you. Ask them to give you the exact numbers on your test and post them here as soon as you can.

* Medications can be lethal if there is poor water quality. This is why it's important to know what your parameters are. Since you've said he is doing worse since you added medications, I would recommend doing a big water change and adding carbon to your filter (if it's not there all ready) to get the medication out.

* It sounds like your fish has ammonia burns, which appear as black marks, the black part is actually your fish healing. Since this shows that there is ammonia in the water, this would also point me in the direction of doing a significant water change. How big is your tank in gallons? I apologize, it's late here and I can't seem to figure that out with the measurements. Also, what type of filter do you have? How many gallons per hour does it filter?

* I think salt might be the best treatment option right now. There are two different types of salt which can be used to treat different things. I would hold off on that for now and wait for a more experienced member to hop online.

I hope that all makes sense, as I said, it's late here. Please post back if you have any questions and to let us know how your fish is doing. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hello and welcome.

Desiree is right the meds sound not correct for the problem and will not work and can kill in water with any ammonia or nitrite or even high nitrates. If the meds are rightly prescribed and your water is good, you should NOT be seeing deterioration. I suggest you do a full water change to get those meds out. Myxazin is a British medication- are you in the UK? Choice of meds are limited in the UK. Medicated antibiotic food is what you need here to tackle the internal bleeding (dark red blotch you saw under the skin). His condition will be helped by salting (see link in my sig) but you really need antibiotics for this.

We do have a Mod in the UK who will be along soon. Meanwhile I should do the water change and if possible get started on 0.1% salt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

Thanks for all the advice. I have done a 50% water change to get rid of the meds and added stress coat and stress zyme the water. I had my water tested at the pet store before the water change and it was PH=7, Ammonia=0, they didnt give me numbers for the others but said they were good. However, I have done a big water change and 2 small water changes since the problem started so I might have corrected any problems already. I also have some tonic salts, could I put this in the water? I havent yet found a vet that treat fish and yes I am in the UK so I cant buy medicated food. Fish has still not moved

Edited by girlinspace
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

He is now sat in a different spot so he must have moved at one point. His top fin is starting to go greyish colour and he is opening and closing his mouth and gills like he is gasping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I am so sorry :( I am sure that Myxazin has formaldehyde in it which removes oxygen (70%) from the water. Do you have an extra air wand or can you rearrange the water flow so there is extra surface splash for him to get air into the water. Its very important, especially if his gills are damaged from illness or meds..

The tonic salts are fine- they can be used at higher amounts than the tonic dose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

is there anything I can get in the uk as an alternative to something like medi-gold fish food?

Edited by girlinspace
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I think you may have to go to a vet and request a small amount of metronidazole or oxytetracyline and then add it to gelfood or soak mysis brine shrimp in it to feed the fish. Is he still eating?

Pixiefish is the Mod in the UK and she will be on later I am sure for med advice.

I'm unsure why you use bottle water. Tap water contains minerals that fish need and usually a more suitable pH than bottled water. Your tank is very small and toxins build up so very fast. The smaller the space the faster ammonia and nitrites creap. Nitrites can cause these symptoms. Its most likely that a larger space with more frequent water changes (50% daily minimum while he is sick) would be the best thing you can try at this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

yes I agree on the water changes, I did 20% yesterday, 50% today and will do 50% each day while he's sick. I used bottled water as the water here is very hard water and this was recommended to me, I have switched back to tap water the last few days, thought it was better for him but obviously not.

He was supposed to move into a bigger tank last week but he started showing signs of illness. The fish was very very small when i got it so this was big enough at the time and I couldn't afford a new tank till now (ironic isnt it)

P.S he stopped eating last night, he ate a flake and spat it out again

Edited by girlinspace
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

Trinket, I was just reading your post on salt, If I am doing a 50% water change each day, how would I put the salt in to account for this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

OK its now midnight, about 2 hours ago I put 0.1% tonic salt in the water. He started swimming around a little and I thought he was getting better. Now he is back at the bottom almost on his side. That red area is looking worse and he has started swelling. His fin is also looking darker. I dare not go to sleep incase he dead in the morning

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

i used stress coat, is that right? I also left it standing most of the day before putting in.

Edited by girlinspace
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi there - I'm rather late on tonight but wanted to respond before bedtime.

BACKGROUND: According to your measurements, your tank's volume is approximately 7.79 U.S. gallons, which is approximately 30.31 liters. This is on the small side for a goldfish - we normally recomend at least 10 US gals for a fancy. Can you tell us which make of filter you are using? Also, how long the tank has been running? This is important in assessing your water and set-up.

As Trinket has said, bottled water is not good as it lacks sufficient KH (alkalinity) and is usually unable to hold a stable PH. It's good you have switched to tap - hard water is not a problem for goldfish, in fact they do well in it as do the beneficial bacteria which colonize your bio-filter.

ON TO TREATMENT:

Myxacin - the ingredients are as follows; acriflavine hydrochloride 0.55%, formaldehyde 0.12% and Malachite green 0.085%.

This may have been a dodgy med depending on your water. All the ingredients can potentially knock out your biofilter, all ingredients become increasingly toxic the higher the temperature and, as Trinket said, the Forma will suck much of the oxygen out of the water. A hot, underfiltered tank with algae growth could lack dissolved oxygen to start with. Acriflavine with any ammonia equals toxic soup. I'm hoping that your cycle is still intact since the meds and that there is no ammonia presence. Also that your water at the time of medicating had established a mature cycle; the blacks marks suggest ammonia burn, you see. A test kit (drops not strips) is vital to have at this point.

I would recommend a large water change to ensure you have gotten rid of all this medication - it is probably not the best choice at this point and we need reliable water readings before we can give you the thumbs up. You should also be aware that adding salt if there is any remaining acriflavine is a very bad idea. In fact, if he is swelling, change out all the salt.

Meanwhile, what you need is some type of antibiotic which is hard to get here.

The only possibility is Sera Baktopur Direct (bath treatment) and Sera Baktotabs (medfood) - the ingredient in this med is not exactly an antibiotic, but functions pretty much like one and is the only thing we can get over here. I will give you the link, but should also alert you to the possibility that one of our members who has it on order for his fish (which unfortunately died) may be willing to sell it on to you as he will not need it now. You can find him under his topic 'RIP Speedy'. Here is the link for the Sera products

http://www.reptilica.co.uk/Cure.chtml - scroll down to the bottom and you will find thumbnails of them.

I will drop in tomorrow to see how things are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nimajneb

Hi Girlinspace

Hopefully you're in bed and being sensible but I know how hard it is to take your eyes off the tank. But, follow the advice you get here and you never know what you can achieve. Sadly Speedy was mine who passed away only a few hours ago so believe me I've seen the highs and the lows in the past weeks that you are seeing. Like most people I started off thinking that the occaisional water change and size of the tank was ok so don't feel embarrased. Because of this I have learned from the amazing people here that the water quality is the most important thing you can look after and that as tempting as it seems to try all sort of medications you must stop yourself from doing so and have some faith in pristine water.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...mp;#entry780780

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...mp;#entry788371

The links above are my story - there are alot of similarities and athough there is absolutely no guarantee that your fish has the same problem I think you will find them useful to you and what you are possibly going to go through which will be, I hope, an invaluable reference tool. My knowledge is by far and away a tiny amount of most if not all of the 'veterans'(no offence guys!) but don't hesitate to ask me anything about what I have been doing for Speedy if you think it may help.

Pixie is basically our UK specific guru but you CANNOT ASK TOO MANY QUESTIONS through the main forum as well for when she is not about. We do have an amazing disadvantage in terms of the medications available to us in the UK and I have ordered the products Pixie mentioned which I will be more than happy to sell on to you unopened. All in the two items with P&P is about ?26 and a few pennies but as far as I can tell the order still hasn't been sent out. If they get here in time for you we will sort something out if you want to. I really don't mind.

I will be keeping an eye out on this post and keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you - you clearly care greatly about helping your friend out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nimajneb

I can always get more in the future but I hope I won't need to so happy to help if the help is wanted - hope they get here in time to be of use.

Meetings.... or some medication to make me sleep at normal hours? I do this all the time, staying up too late but it is Friday after all. Hmmm, is there a thread about to be created for KoKos Anonymous... I can think of one or two or fifty that would have to sign up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Fish are my hobby, but drugs are my passion. I don't know very much about the state of UK drug control laws, especially in the gray areas where they seem to conflict with EU drug control laws, but I do know one thing: that certain nitrofuran-type products (nitrofurantoin, nitrofurazone, nifurpirinol, etc) can be purchased in the UK for veterinary use without a perscription. I understand that quinolones may also be available for mammals, but I don't know if you can get them in fish doses. I think you'll find that tetracycline and erythromycin would both be very difficult to find without a perscription.

It's my understanding that nitrofurans are dangerous in that they are rather mutenagenic, but then again, so is methylcellulose, which is in everything. (It's a thickening/gelling agent.) What I mean to say is, it's a risk you have to live with. Because of this danger, they are not legal for use in food producing animals, but the same applies to the dechlorinators we use in their water every water change. Really, the danger is in bioconcentration in predators (humans), not in the food-producing animals. (Remember what happened to the bald eagles in the US when we used DDT? It's like that.) They do have potentially serious side effects in humans, and, in humans, are contraindicated when impared renal function is involved. If your fish has gone septic, you can assume impared renal function. At that point, many antibiotics won't help you.

Please, don't break the law and don't take this as any kind of medical or veteranary advice. I don't know specifically what is or is not legal in your area, or specifically what your fish needs. These are just some random drug facts I seem to remember, and any or all of them could be wrong. Good luck in helping your fish, and good night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

nimajneb, I just read that first link that you posted to me and my fish is the exact same that you described for your fish, omg, he's going to die. My fish has been bottom sitting for day and he wont eat! should I take him to the vet? Do biger water changes? take out the salt? omg, i dont know what to do, someone has to help me! quick!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
yes I agree on the water changes, I did 20% yesterday, 50% today and will do 50% each day while he's sick. I used bottled water as the water here is very hard water and this was recommended to me, I have switched back to tap water the last few days, thought it was better for him but obviously not.

He was supposed to move into a bigger tank last week but he started showing signs of illness. The fish was very very small when i got it so this was big enough at the time and I couldn't afford a new tank till now (ironic isnt it)

P.S he stopped eating last night, he ate a flake and spat it out again

Hi, I'm no disease or medication expert, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents on this one issue.

For a 7+ gallon tank with a goldfish, 50% water changes are usually not enough, even when the fish is healthy and 20% is definitely not enough. With that size tank with a goldfish, you should be doing 50-70% once a week, IF your tank is cycled and if it isn't, you should be doing a 70-90% water change each day.

You cannot rely on LFS to do your test readings for you. And when you do, you need to ask them to give you actual numbers for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. "Good" is not enough. You really need to get drop test kits for these things and test your water daily when your fish is sick so you can be sure that you are providing the healthiest water you can.

Another thing too, you said that your tank was in the sun. Is it still in the sun? If so, what is the temperature of the water? Hot water temperatures can make fish very listless, rob the water of oxygen and lower the fish's ability to fight off disease. It can also render some medications useless. This tank is small, so it is going to be fairly easy to move, so if it's in the sun still, you really should consider moving it to a place that is away from the sun and cooler. If the water is still too hot, you can set up a small fan to blow across the top of the water. This really helps a lot to bring down the temperature of the water.

And as said, you don't need to use bottled water. You also don't need to let your water sit for 24 hours or whatever if you are using a dechlorinator/water conditioner for a couple of reasons. One, the dechlorinator/water conditioner works instantly and, two, there are other additives in water, such as chloramines, that will never evaporate out of the water like chlorine does, no matter how long it sits, so using a good dechlorinator/water conditioner is the only way to get rid of such things.

You also mentioned something about your fish was supposed to move into a larger tank last week, but then it got sick. Do you still have that larger tank? Was the tank water cycled? Maintaining water quality is much easier in a larger tank, so depending on the answers and some other things, it might be better to move your fish into that larger tank.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest girlinspace

I took him to the vet today, he has septicemia. The vet gave him an antibiotic injection and some antibiotic to put in his water every three days with a full water change and advised to keep him in his baby tank while he is taking it. He is still not eating, the dark area have pread to his fins and he is starting to pinecone. Im just hoping for the best now. It cost me ?32! (about $65)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest nimajneb

Hi Girlinspace

How's he doing? Try not to fret but I know it's hard not to - you are doing so much for him and that means a lot. If you can give your fish quality conditions you can be suprised at the hardiness of them. You have a different position to what I was in as you have been to the vet and have medication(and possibly better medication than the bactopur?) at an earlier stage so hopefully if the vet was correct and the medication is right(which I have to assume it is as he/she is the professional) you have been able to do 'more' for your fish than I was able to. Speedy was pineconing for about a week before he went and that was with no treatment other than 100% water changes once a day and then twice a day for the last three days so take heart!! Other members are far more qualified to inform you of what to be doing now. Did the vet mean to do 100% water changes daily during the medication process?

Lynda makes some good points about the tanks. Too much direct sunlight is a bad thing and temperature is also important to keep regulated especially with the hot weather we are having at the moment. If your new tank has not cycled yet I would advise that at the same time as you are looking after your fish in the quarantine tank you are monitering your new tank at the same time. How much do you know about the cycling process? I would also strongly advise that you read the links below Pixie's signature about this because when your fish is better and gets into his new palace a cycled tank will go a long way to keeping him healthy. We don't have many advantages in the UK but as far as I can tell one of the advantages that we do have is that our water tends to have a fairly high Ph level(it does here in London where it is about 7.5 out of the tap though I don't know about where you are - I think it's lower in places like Devon for example where the water is much 'softer' so a good declorinator should be enough to make the water safe for fish).

Lynda also suggest thinking of moving him into the larger tank while medicating. If that tank has not cycled yet I'm not sure this is the best idea as the Ni, Na Ammonia etc will be all over the place and possibly do more harm than good mixing with the antibiotics. Like I said, I'm still new to this as well so perhaps someone else could confirm or deny this?

Does your fish have a name?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...