Jump to content

Multiple Treatments


lynda441

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

This is a general question, so I'm not going to post answers to the questions above.

Okay, background first.

My Leroy, if you remember, got an internal bacterial infection resulting in small ulcers, that never popped, just receded, and after some qt treatment, he appeared to have gotten better, only to have come down with a fatal case of dropsy about two weeks later while I was out of town for the July 4th weekend and he was gone in a matter of a couple of days thereafter. His body was swollen and one of the things I remember noticing was how large an opening his anal vent had. My Blue, spent most of the time with Leroy when this was occurring.

So, now the current issue.

I've been noticing Blue bottom sitting occasionally. Usually at night when it's "sleep time," so I just attributed it to resting because he's otherwise active and healthy looking and acting and has a very piggish appetite and his poop is good. Another thing I noticed is that the front edge of the dorsal fin is just a little floppy. His dorsal fin isn't at all clamped or even dropped, but it isn't completely nice and straight and stiff and perky either. It all stands up well enough except just the front part that sort of folds/flops to the side just ever so slightly. I can't say that I noticed whether his fin has always been like that though. But, when I noticed that his anal vent seemed to be just a little bit enlarged, I thought, "nope, I'm not taking any chances here, so I put him in qt with some epsom salt just in case. His body doesn't appear swollen, really, but I just didn't like the look of the anal vent, which to me, if enlarged, infers swelling.

Also, while Blue's been in qt, I noticed the right half of the caudal fin is a little... uneven. I won't say ragged or torn, but it's not a smooth edge from front to back. I also can't say whether this fin has always been like that. It doesn't really have any indication of being infected or with disease. It may be natural, I don't know, but I'm thinking that as long as Blue's in qt, I might as well give him a little salt for a while.

I'm not in fear here of this being an emergency or even an immediate situation, but I want to take care of this, if there is anything there, before it does become an emergency. I'm concerned that Blue may be harboring some of the bacteria that Leroy had and I want to catch it early if that's the case.

So, like I said, he's been in epsom salt for about 30 hours now and I'm feeding Medi-Gold. I guess my question is, that if I'm treating him for possible swelling and then follow that up with salt for the caudal fin, could that kind of negate the epsom salt and possibly cause swelling again?

Here's a picture. Trust me, Blue was not happy about me taking pictures of his butt hole!

BlueAnalVent1.jpg

And, I wanted to get one of the vent from the side, but by this point, Blue had had it and I didn't want to upset him any more than I had. Looking at the anal vent from the side, it sort of sticks out a little................... making me wonder.... I've never actually seen a female ready to breed... so, if anyone might have input on that....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Looking at the anal vent from the side, it sort of sticks out a little................... making me wonder.... I've never actually seen a female ready to breed... so, if anyone might have input on that....

Well, females do have 'outies' rather than 'innies. They will also bottom-sit and look rather fatter than normal when they are needing to expel eggs.

Epsom is good for drawing out fluids, acting as a laxative and helping with an eggbound fish. Why not wait to see if there are any noticeable changes in the next day or two.

Does there appear to be any actual finrot today? I would not bother with salt, as well, because the Medigold should take care of anything bacterial.

(Salt, btw, should only make a fish bloat if it is already having probs with its kidneys, as in the case of dropsy.)

Have you already treated for flukes? I can't remember?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Looking at the anal vent from the side, it sort of sticks out a little................... making me wonder.... I've never actually seen a female ready to breed... so, if anyone might have input on that....

Well, females do have 'outies' rather than 'innies. They will also bottom-sit and look rather fatter than normal when they are needing to expel eggs.

Epsom is good for drawing out fluids, acting as a laxative and helping with an eggbound fish. Why not wait to see if there are any noticeable changes in the next day or two.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering... it is a sort of outie from the side, and I've seen pictures of that, but they never show pictures from the rear to show how the vent opening looks. So, my concern really was whether the vent is more open as in my picture because Blue's a breeding female, or whether I should be concerned of bacterial infection because, as I said, that's how Leroy's vent looked, only worse, before he died. And the bottom sitting fits in with breeding, but Blue really doesn't look fat at all, whether from infection or eggs, so it's sort of confusing why his/her anal vent is so open. So, I'm getting mixed signals as far as physical symptoms/attributes of disease or breeding. But, I intend on keeping Blue in hospital for at least two weeks.

Does there appear to be any actual finrot today? I would not bother with salt, as well, because the Medigold should take care of anything bacterial.

(Salt, btw, should only make a fish bloat if it is already having probs with its kidneys, as in the case of dropsy.)

Have you already treated for flukes? I can't remember?

Nope. The fins, although uneven, do not look infected, ragged, have white edges or anything else that is typical of an active/ongoing illness. Yeah, and that's why I wondered about doing salt. Because it can cause bloating. Okay, the fins are not bad enough to warrant salt when the alternative is bloating. So, no salt.

As far as flukes, Blue and Leroy were my original fish. At that time, I didn't know about doing prazi as a routine part of the new fish qt. Just the two of them have been in my 60 gallon tank for over 1 year before Leroy started having problems and his problems were a result of me slacking off on water changes because I was swamped with school finals in addition to working full time. I got bad Bs. So, it was my fault that Leroy got sick, but, no, I never treated for flukes. I never had any flashing to indicate that, but as it can't hurt to treat for flukes, I certainly could do that after the epsom salt. Or can I do that simultaneously with epsom salt?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hey Lynda! Can't help with most of it, but when I was treating Samantha and Miranda with epsom Trinket said it was fine to do so while giving them Prazi. Maybe that helps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Last minute post before bed.

Definitely run Prazi as you haven't already - should there be no fluke presence it will not hurt the fish, so you can only win.

Flukes will not always cause a fish to flash, especially if they have invaded the gills. The circumstances you described surrounding Leroy's initial illness is exactly the way flukes get the upper hand; raised nitrates and organic load stress the fish > immune defence goes down > flukes move in and get the upper hand> less frequent water changes allow fluke numbers to really thrive. This has happened to many of us.

Flukes slowly destroy the gill tissue reducing oxygen uptake and causing lethargy and bottom sitting; fish are opened up to secondary bac infection and often end up dropsying. Fins can also be damaged and can look ragged, or split, or eroded.

If its finrot and/or internal bac, then MGold will take care of things, so wait to see if there is any change. You can run Prazi alongside the med food, but I would change-out the epsom first.; not essential but I like to keep things as simple as possible. The fish isn't bloated or pineconing, so by the time you get your Prazi, the epsom will have done what it can to purge any possible eggs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Sue, just having you chime in is always helpful. It's just nice to know you have friends around watching over you! :D

You got it Pixie. Because I didn't know a prazi treatment should be standard during qt, I needed to get something quick when I got my lionhead, which was my first new investment since Blue and Leroy a year plus ago, so I've been using a prazi combo med (API General Cure) that I got from the LFS. I've ordered the Prazi-Pro and will continue epsom salt and MGold until that arrives. Should I continue MGold with the prazi when that arrives?

Oh, and just as a "conclusory" statement, are we saying then, that Blue is a girl?

Edited by lynda441
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hmmm... and as a postscript, it just dawned on me that, in doing my water change today, actually for the last two days, I've noticed slightly long, thin, either white or clear poop. So, it's either an internal bacterial infection or reabsorbed eggs, which is right back where we started from. But, if it weren't for the filter current, I don't think they'd float. But, I didn't really pay that close of attention to them. I'm gonna have to do some poop gazing to see if I can decide if they're thin, white, stringy, floating poop or if they're long and clear.

Edited by lynda441
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Oh, wait a minute.......

So you've been running General Cure?

"but, no, I never treated for flukes." - Just want to make sure we're on the same page, here...... General Cure does treat flukes as it contains Prazi; however it also contains Metronidazole which is an antibiotic. When did you run this? Earlier or now? How long for? Can you clarify the details, just so I'm clear on everything?

If you are using this and also feeding MGold (which is an antibiotic food), I'm not sure these meds should be run concurrently. I'm getting a little worried that we suddenly have rather too many treatments flying through this tank, especially as there is no definitive sign of actual illness.

"Should I continue MGold with the prazi when that arrives?"

Important things to remember about antibiotics:

They must be run for the full treatment period specified; finishing earlier than the minimum period leads to bacterial resistance; antibiotics are bacteria specific, so really need to be matched to the most likely infection - shot-gun medicating of AntiB's is ultimately detrimental to a fish who does not have an infection because it strips it of its natural immunity; in the case of infection, it's the price you pay to get on top of disease, but otherwise the meds do not distinguish between the harmful or the healthy bacterial flora - they just wipe out all.

You probably already know this - I'm just trying to be thorough, here ;)

Post back with the details of G Cure and I think I'll ask Trinket to take a look :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Just want you to know that I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Mrs. Blue (it seems like Mr. may not work anymore).

lol! I know. I've been trying to run new names across my brain. Instead of Buddy Blue...... maybe, Budwina Blue.... lol! I'm gonna have to think on that.

Oh, wait a minute.......

So you've been running General Cure?

"but, no, I never treated for flukes." - Just want to make sure we're on the same page, here...... General Cure does treat flukes as it contains Prazi; however it also contains Metronidazole which is an antibiotic. When did you run this? Earlier or now? How long for? Can you clarify the details, just so I'm clear on everything?

No, sorry. I'm not using the General Cure for Blue. I've used the General Cure for my new fish, my calico ryukin, my lionhead and, currently, my chocolate pom pom oranda. But, no. Blue is not in, nor ever has been in, General Cure. Only epsom salt and MGold.

Oh, and as this has become much less of a general question and more treatment specific, if you need the questions answered, just holla. Of course, which tank situation? The 60 gallon that caused the bacteria from 2 months ago, the current 60 gallon or the 10 gallon hospital that Blue is currently in!? :hmm

Edited by lynda441
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

General Cure contains metro and prazi ..75mg of prazi per pack..

Just on the anal vent, it could be constipation, build up of fluids inside as well as possibly eggs. But re=absorbed egg poop does not look like you describe. Poop with reabsorbed eggs in will look white and traily and then have 3 or 4 jellified lumps in the middle.As they are jelly like this causes the poop to look zigzag, thats the distinguishing feature of egg poop (I just love this topic :rolleyes: ) :D .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Poop with reabsorbed eggs in will look white and traily and then have 3 or 4 jellified lumps in the middle.As they are jelly like this causes the poop to look zigzag, thats the distinguishing feature of egg poop (I just love this topic :rolleyes: ) :D .

Aah: The art of pooplooking :rofl

I found a small one recently, so it just can't be Godzilla's. That means that one of my little ones is maturing :D , but who is it, Fred, Gigi or Silver? :unsure:

Edited by Quasi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
I found a small one recently, so it just can't be Godzilla's. That means that one of my little ones is maturing :D , but who is it, Fred, Gigi or Silver? :unsure:

And what is Sarge, chopped liver? :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
Poop with reabsorbed eggs in will look white and traily and then have 3 or 4 jellified lumps in the middle.As they are jelly like this causes the poop to look zigzag, thats the distinguishing feature of egg poop (I just love this topic :rolleyes: ) :D .

Aah: The art of pooplooking :rofl

I found a small one recently, so it just can't be Godzilla's. That means that one of my little ones is maturing :D , but who is it, Fred, Gigi or Silver? :unsure:

The art of pooplooking... Hello, I'm a goldfish expert. My specialty is pooplooking! :rofl3

Yeah, and that's the thing. I just noticed thin and white and kind of see-through, but I didn't look at it closely enough to determine whether it was lumpy, zig-zaggy or what. So, I gotta go pooplooking again. Now dad gum it, Blue, POOP!

Edited by lynda441
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
I found a small one recently, so it just can't be Godzilla's. That means that one of my little ones is maturing :D , but who is it, Fred, Gigi or Silver? :unsure:

And what is Sarge, chopped liver? :P

She is still smaller than the others and Silver has been a bit inactive lately so she could be it and Fred and Gigi are def big enough

If I ever put a male in that tank he will be very happy (6 females) and very exhausted :rofl

Edited by Quasi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Okay, update on the pooplooking... the latest poop is short, thin, and pale brown/food colored. So, I suppose that means that, whether it is bacterial infection or egg-impaction, it's starting to get a little better...? Dang! I wanted to see whether it was eggs. It would be nice to know if Blue is Buddy Blue or Bunny Blue! And, don't worry. I'm not letting the color change alter my treatment plans. I'm sticking with the epsom salt and MGold til the prazi-pro comes and then getting rid of the epsom and doing prazi. The plan hasn't changed. Just filing my poop report!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
And here I thought dog people were the only ones obsessed with poop,rofl!! 201.gif

That is why we call goldies aqua-puppies, not the begging, nor the big eyes, nor the incredible cuteness, it's the poop-obsession :rofl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

You know after picking up after my dog twice this morning and cleaning the cat's litter box...I was hoping to get away from poop. Just my luck to get into goldies which involves what else...more poop!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
And here I thought dog people were the only ones obsessed with poop,rofl!! 201.gif

That is why we call goldies aqua-puppies, not the begging, nor the big eyes, nor the incredible cuteness, it's the poop-obsession :rofl

Oh, but it IS also that terrible begging, big droopy puppy dog eyes and the incredible cuteness! I never thought I'd be checking out poop like it was a good thing to do! lol! Danged little cute monsters!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
You know after picking up after my dog twice this morning and cleaning the cat's litter box...I was hoping to get away from poop. Just my luck to get into goldies which involves what else...more poop!

Thanks for reminding me... I have to go change my cat's litterbox... and do a water change... Hahah!

All poop jokes aside, Lynda, I hope everything goes well with Blue!!! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If I see the word poop written ONE MORE TIME!!!! LOL

For real, I am hoping things improve for Blue, whether it's a she, he, shemale. I don't care. I just hope for getting better LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

LMAO I was wondering who would be the first to do that! I knew it wouldn't take very long :rofl You guys are NUTTY.... love you all! And your fish and all of their poop HAHA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Quick, someone get a contract here. Trinket is the star, and the show... why it's "The Poo Whisperer" :yeah:

Lynda,

I'm sorry to hear about blue. How is she/he doing today?

BTW, I have a whole bottle and a partial bottle of PraziPro here if you want to make the drive. Takes about a week or so to get it from Rick.

Luv ya

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...