Difference Between Ranchus And Lion Heads.

[Goldfish7]

I have always wondered what the difference was between a Ranchu and a Lion Head. To be honest, they look the same to me.

[heidiinatree@yahoo.ca]

well they are hard to tell apart ..a lionhead has a straighter back and less of a tail tuck ..a ranchu has a curve starting right behind the head and has more of a tuck to it's tail ..

[koko]

LionHead (patches)

[koko]

Body shape of a Ranchu, he doesnt have the Wen he should but you can see the curve of the back

[Goldfish7]

Thanks. I can see a little difference in them but not much.

[misty_blue16137]

This is Fric & Frac. They are actually Lionhead/Ranchu mixes but one has the Lionhead back and one has a Ranchu back. Maybe seeing them together will show the difference a little better for you.

[Petperson04]

I've wondered about this difference for awhile, too, and now I know!

[koko]

Basic think is that Lionheads have a straight back and Ranchus and a nice tucked tail to them Lionheads dont

[d_golem]

This might help in differentiating them.

The below 2 pictures are in my opinion the absolute ideal body conformation for a lionhead and a ranchu, so you can clearly see how they differ.

Lionhead

Ranchu

[Guest Kayla's Goldfish]

OOh I see now! Haha.

[lynda441]

Those two pics make a really good side-by-side comparison! And it really helps that lines are drawn over the backbone to accentuate the spinal curve.

[jyoti411]

I agree...I actually could make the difference between the two with those lines drawn...

[Guest Tankgirl]

Is it just me who thinks that the different types are a bit stupid? >,>

I mean...it's slightly more bent?

We should totally name a new type of ryukin because of the size of the hump. o_O;;;

Before I read ANYTHING, I thought ranchus didn't have wens and lionheads did. That would have been acceptable.

I just think it's daft. ):

[Man Yu]

^the distinctions just existed because the Chinese developed the lionhead thousands of years ago but it was later developed by the Japanese into the ranchu some decades later. Although surprisingly, the distinction of the curvature of the spine between the lionhead and ranchu was only defined in Goldfish Show Standards recently because the original Japanese ranchu was bred to be viewed from above... With the invention of glass aquariums in the 20th century it became more aesthetically accepted that ranchus should have a curved back to distinguish them from lionheads as TRUE Japanese top-view ranchus are generally not as nice to look at when seen sideways. (the back is usually straight but curves sharply downward into the caudal peduncle but the trademark tail-tuck is still always present... tehre are exceptions, of course as some beautiful specimens of TVRs also possess a good gentle curvature of their back making them equally pleasing to view sideways as Side-View Ranchus)

Edited July 28, 2008 by Man Yu

[daryl]

It is a bit like loving a cat or a dog, regardless of pedigree or pureness of breed. The animal can be a great companion and family member, no matter what.

BUT.... if you wished to show the dog or cat, you would need it to conform to a specialized set of "rules" for how it looked. If you wished to breed that dog or cat - it would also need to comform. The same is for the goldfish.

Many appreciate the fish for what they are - simply beautiful jewels in their tanks/ponds. But many others appreciate the fish for the 1000s of years of breeding, the specific conformation - or as close as it comes to that specified conformation, and the cleanness of the genetic line. There is nothing more beautiful than a fish that is a spectacular representation of the best of the breed of goldfish that goes back 100s or 1000s of years!

Lionheads and side-view Ranchu and top-view Ranchu are three different breeds of fish. In many cases they have been cross bred - or culled such that they appear to be cross-bred. A fish that carries a wen like a Lionhead, but a back like a SVR could be called a "Lionchu" or a crossbreed. A Ranchu with a straighter back is a poor Ranchu or a poor Lionhead, but is a poor representation of either breed.

It is not silly - and not simple. These fish are very carefully selected. A good SVR is a great thing in the STates. A good TVR is an amazing thing - nearly unavailable in the States - considering they are all carefullly bred from specific genetic lines - lines that can be traced back for soooooooo many years. A good Lionhead is uncommon in this day and age - so many have Ranchu type backs!

I think it is fine if you simply love the gorgeous fish that exist. But if you REALLY want to know goldfish, you need to study and understand the 1000s of years of history and genetics and development of the specific breeds.

[drkslvr]

this should be pinned! I've been puzzling over this ranchu/lionhead thing for awhile now. I had gotten it into my head that lionheads were the ones with full-face wens and ranchus were the ones with partial wens or lumpy wens. It's nice to know that there really is a little more definite difference than that. I've been driving myself nuts trying to tell the two apart!

[d_golem]

Is it just me who thinks that the different types are a bit stupid? >,>

I mean...it's slightly more bent?

We should totally name a new type of ryukin because of the size of the hump. o_O;;;

Before I read ANYTHING, I thought ranchus didn't have wens and lionheads did. That would have been acceptable.

I just think it's daft. ):

Don't think it's stupid or daft at all

It's exactly the same like dogs. An average person will go "Huh??" when explained the difference between toy poodle, standard poodle, and miniature poodle, where a dog fancier will think of it as common knowledge & able to tell them apart with one look.

[Goldfish7]

So, the only difference is the curved back of the Ranchu. The last set of pictures was really helpful.

[lynda441]

Lionheads and side-view Ranchu and top-view Ranchu are three different breeds of fish. In many cases they have been cross bred - or culled such that they appear to be cross-bred. A fish that carries a wen like a Lionhead, but a back like a SVR could be called a "Lionchu" or a crossbreed. A Ranchu with a straighter back is a poor Ranchu or a poor Lionhead, but is a poor representation of either breed.

Now, I always knew it was the spine curve that distinguished lionheads and ranchus, but I wasn't so aware of the wen issue. I guess I thought they both could have wens, so this bit of information, that is, that if a gf has no dorsal fin, a straight spine and has a wen, it is most likely a lionchu, is another bit of learning for me!

We should totally name a new type of ryukin because of the size of the hump.

Well, it is the size/shape of the hump that helps determine whether a ryukin is of show quality.

Edited July 28, 2008 by lynda441

[kangakoi]

Daryl, Amen!

I could have not put it any better. Over time we will come to appreciate the variaties created and who know Ranchu may be becoming your fav breed

[d_golem]

that if a gf has no dorsal fin, a straight spine and has a wen, it is most likely a lionchu, is another bit of learning for me!

WRONG-O

If a gf has no dorsal fin, a straight spine, and has a wen, then it's a Lionhead.

If a gf has no dorsal fin, a curved spine, and has a lionhead-type wen, then it's a Lionchu.

So, to make it simple:

LIONHEAD

Umbrella identification:

- Dorsal-less

- Straight back

- Has some form of wen (no matter what type)

- Short-tailed

Variations:

- Pompom

Summary: as long as it's dorsal-less, short-tailed, has a straight(ish) spine, and has any kind of wen, it's a Lionhead.

RANCHU (or more specifically, SVR)

Umbrella identification:

- Dorsal-less

- Curved back (end of curve ideally forming an acute angle with the tail)

- Has some form of wen (no matter what type)

- Short-tailed

Variations:

- Pompom

- Lionhead-type wen (called a Lionchu)

Summary: as long as it's dorsal-less, short-tailed, has a curved spine, and has any kind of wen, it's a Ranchu.

[kangakoi]

Hi d_golem,

Where do you shop for good fancy GF in Perth WA? Sorry to highjacked the thread.

[d_golem]

Woohoo a West Aussie!!

Best place for fancy GF in metro area is Aquotix in Canning Vale. They only do freshwater and they got the largest collection of goldfish as far as I know, from run-of-the-mill local comets to (when the shipment arrives) $600+ near-show class fish. Their overseas supplier source the fish from lots of places (mainly China & Thailand). The staff are also top-notch, being avid fish-keepers themselves and some are breeders. As an addition, I can't think of any place that quarantines better than Aquotix. Very rarely you see a sick fish in their tanks.

Another one is Veba's in Carrington Road near Freo. Used to be very good, now not so good. Always see sick fish there.

Pet Magic in Cannington is also worth a visit. Even though their gf section is not big, they always have mid-to-top range fish available.

Hope that helps

[kangakoi]

Thank you d_golem,

I am back after 25 years absent with goldfish. I have been to all of your mentioned PS and stood there for hrs. My current fav is Ranchu and may be Panda but the Panda somewhat unreliable in term of colouration to cost, hence a slow start with this type. Thnaks once again.

Regards

kanga

[manadesmalice]

So,...not to add confusion but a ranchu can have a healthy sized wen and still be within the standard?