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Carolinedoodle

Red Blotch

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OK. Well she should be back very soon. I have to sign off now. I'll check back on you later too.. Best of luck!!!

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2mg for 180 litres would be 360mg which is 7.2 tablets. So it's either 12 or 7.2, both seem a lot, but I'd like to know asap which to order, I may just order 12 just in case.

I've missed the deadline for next day special delivery by 25 minutes :(

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He is looking a worse, clamped and bottom sitting again.

I'm ringing every petshop in Merseyside to see if they stock it. There are 224 and half aren't answering and half just offer me other brands.

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Also considering Sterazin out of desperation.

On the international medications bit of here it says Sterazin - Unkown ingredients. Sterazin is used or the control of gill and body parasites which cause fish to flick when no symptoms are visible to the unaided eye. Sterazin will also aid the control of internal parasites such as Round Worm, Thread Worm, and Intestinal Worm.

Could it be worth a try?

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I hate to keep posting but don't want to miss anything, sorry, so I will have Sterazin in half an hour and was wondering if any UK members know anything about it, like can it be used with the Melafix and aquarium salt? And if I have to remove them how do I do it, by waterchange? I have no carbon in my filter just spaghetti looking stuff in the fluval and polishing pads and normal spongey stuff in the Eheim.

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It says on the Sterazin "Allow at least 48 hours to elapse when changing disease treatments" :( I don't know if he'll survive 48 hours really... does Melafix count as a disease treatment because it's so herbal? I'm not going to act until I have some info though of course.

Help! Thank you :)

Edited by Carolinedoodle

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Only just signed back in.

Sterazin is potentially a killer or cure depending on how far gone your fish is.

It contains Malachite green, formaldehyde and piperazine citrate. Malachite green becomes increasingly toxic the higher the PH and can burn damaged gills; formaldehyde strips the oxygen out of the water (even more so with higher temps) which can tip a heavily infested fish over the edge due to the gills already being compromised.

Having said that, Piperazine is the larger of the main ingredients which is not harsh, as the others are. If the fish seems mobile and respiring reasonably well, you could perhaps try at, say, 1/2 to 3/4 the dose, just to see. Be sure to do a very large water change first and add extra aeration to help the fish during treatment. Observe closely - if the fish becomes noticeably listless and drops to the bottom, get it out into fresh water asap. I have in desperation used this on my tank which I think is the same as yours? Juwel 180? One fish was very sick and died immediately but others who were not as heavily infested responded - so really it's your call.

My choice would be to use the Droncit tabs if you can afford it - 50mg treats about 20L (just under) so I think 9 would be about right. However, Prazi needs to be dosed several times in order to catch all the life stages so it could be quite expensive.

Your other option is to order Cedapraz (Pond-size Prazi) from here

http://www.pharmaq.co.uk/shop/erol.html#1X0

It also is very expensive and you will need a decent set of scales to measure lower amounts - pharmacist could help in a pinch.

This, unfortunately, is the 'joy' of living in the UK where NOTHING decent is easily available!!!

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

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Ok, thanks for replying, I am going to steer clear of Sterazin then, as he is already listless and on the bottom. Yes I have a Juwel 180.

I will order the Droncit tabs, cost is of no issue compared to his life really. How many treatments do you think will be necessary? Ordering two lots of 20 would be nearly ?70 :| oh dear. But if that's what it takes.

Could you post instructions on how exactly to add them and how frequently? Dissolve 9 in a cup of tank water and pour it in by the filter output? then when can the next dose be? Assuming he even lives that long. Are they ok to use with Melafix and salt and if not then how exactly do I remove these, do I have to do a 100% water change somehow?

Thanks. :) I've never wanted to not live in the UK till now!

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Having said he's listless and bottom sitting, he doesn't seem to be gasping, and gets up to dart round so can move... but I don't know if I want to risk it... but the Droncit will be here Thursday at the earliest, and by then it might be too late anyway.

I don't know what to do :(

Edited by Carolinedoodle

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Ok, I don't think he will last till Thurs so I am going to give him a 1/4 dose for now and hope for the best.

I assume the large waterchange is to take out some Melafix and salt? I'll do it now.

Any more thoughts?

Oh and I don't have any more air bubbling things just the one :( it's on full power though and I do run two filters and could push the Eheim further up to create more surface movement if that would help??

Edited by Carolinedoodle

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It's in... looks like the poison the wicked stepmother puts in the apple in snow white :(

But he's had no awful reaction so far, he's moving round after the waterchange still. The light is off so it's harder to see him, but it says don't have the light on.

I'm praying this saves him :(

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Oh and as it's a 10 day course medicating on the days 1,3,6,8 and 10, what do I do about water changes? Because 10 days seems a long time to go without one but I suppose it's only 3 days more than his weekly ones hmm. Anyway it's done now so no rush to reply and thanks for all the help, I will check back in the morning for any replies, really thank you so much for all of this, I felt I had to act fast as I was watching him deteriorate, and if this treatment kills him rather than cures him well at least I tried cos he wouldn't have lasted until the tablets arrived :(

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These kind of meds lose their eficiency over time. Thats why they suggest repeated dosage, as well as the need to kill off hatch outs. You are quite okay to do large water changes between each new medication. You may also need to- as formaldehyde will I am afraid most likely kill your bbs. Please test your water daily when using these meds and make sure you raise your filter to make as much surface splash as is possible bearing in mind formaldehyde removes 70% of all total dissolved oxygen at 21 degrees C and up.

What is the temp of your tank, this medication is also more potent at higher temps meaning you need to use less. Remember with only one fish you have a smaller outbreak of flukes than with a tank of fish since flukes live on a host.

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Oh good, Trinket was able to catch up before me.

I'm not able to spend a lot of time on the board right now, so I'm sorry my answers have been slow.

How large a change-out did you make before adding the meds? I'm hoping you managed to remove most of the Melafix.

Just for info - and I'm hoping Trinket will see this - the dosage concentrations for Sterazin are, Piperazine citrate 0.34%, Formaldehyde 0.20% and M Green 0.08%. I didn't find that it knocked out my bacs but it is imperative to check daily as a safe guard; things are affected by many factors such as PH, temp, size of bio-filter etc, so what works for one tank may not behave identically for another. The ingredients degrade over 48 hours which is why repeat doses are necessary as Trinket says - also, the flukes will all be in different life stages so it is a necessary step towards catching all.

As you are only running 1/4 dose, I would watch the fish closely and begin to increase the dose toward the suggested amount, once you see some improvement in behaviour. You will need to ensure that there is enough medication in the water to actually kill off the parasites. Try to mix each dose into a large jug of tank water which you can pour into the filter outlet for easy distrubution - it minimizes the chances of your fish swimming into a concentrated haze and suffering gill burn. Do large changes between doses to remove organics and also lurking larvae/eggs.

Have you already ordered the Droncit? I would think, with the cost, that the Cedapraz would be a cheaper and better option at around ?30 - you could also sell smaller amounts to other UK members who are in need.

If the Droncit is on its way, you will need to grind it in a pestle and mortar and then shake the powder vigorously in a container with tank water to help dissolve it.

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OK, glad I can do large water changes between doses. Hopefully it won't kill off the bbs! I'm about to do a big waterchange now, then I'll test. The filter is on full with plenty of splash

I don't have a themometer or heater on the tank, but I can tell you the room temperature is definitely not warm! It's 18 degrees roughly, the water feels cool to the touch.

Before adding the meds we did about a 90% waterchange, it was huge. Ok so if there's improvement, on Day 3 I will add 1/2 the dose instead of 1/4, right? Or more like 3/4? I did mix the first dose in a container first and made sure he was nowhere near the filter before I poured it into the output.

Not ordered the Droncit, but you're right, I think Cedapraz would be better, and it's always possible to sell it.

No worries about them being slow, it's nice to get any help at all.

Today he's bottom sitting and darting still, so no change at all yet. I'll see how he is after the change and post my readings back on here.

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The filter and bubblers are making a lot of oxygen in the water, so hopefully that'll help. He certainly seems to have no breathing problems.

Done a 60% change and tested.

Are test readings meant to change? because they're all normal, the same as when all this started- I've not seen a change in them since it fully cycled though so I suppose it could be a strong load of bbs in my filters.

I've just fed him and he ate everything. He's stopped bottom sitting since the water change and is just darting about now but also pecking the bottom.

I'm going to order the Cedapraz for when this medication is finished- from what research I've done it's important to finish the course. I'm sure I can find other members on here who'd appreciate the chance to buy a smaller amount of it off me :)

I'm going to not sit and watch him constantly today because it's driving me slowly mad! Fins crossed he'll be fine, and I'll post back any changes etc.

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All sounds good - you are doing everything right :D

Just one suggestion: order Cedapraz now. Finishing the course only applies to anti-biotics (which this med is not); the Prazi is so much healthier for the fish that I would get going with that asap.

Test your water before changes as that is a better indicator of any cycle bump. The advantage of the juwel cannister system is the very large surface area available for bacteria to colonize.

Just for my clarification, when was day 1? Was it yesterday? Don't forget that if you have done a 60% only 24hours later you will have changed out most of the meds already - they remain active for about 36-48 hrs.

Bearing in mind you have added only a quarter dose, I would not wait until day 3 to add the next; if the fish seems alert, you could add another quarter each 12hrs until you are up to the correct amount. If all is well, go with the right dose on day 3. Try to judge by the fishes level of alertness and respiration.

Once the prazi arrives, do a 100% and run a carbon sponge through the filter for 24hrs to remove the Sterazin, then discard it before switching to Prazi.

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Just to update you all on this-

Test results are all still normal and there was never any change throughout.

Cedapraz is being ordered at the weekend.

Day 1 was Monday 21st, so I'm on day 7 now and everything seems to be going well, I've been doing bigger doses nearer to what is specified and his behaviour is entirely normal, fins up, no bottom sitting or clamping or darting, eating normally and pecking his plants etc. The red blotch is also completely gone.

Sterazin, for all it's risk, seems to be doing the trick! I'm going to treat with Prazi anyway just because it won't do any harm and it'll be good to have it for future just in case.

Thanks for all the help, I'll post back soon with the latest

:)

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I've followed this thread and was so upset for you because you were so upset. I'm sooooo, sooooo glad that you have managed to get your sweet fishy through this. Trinket and Pixiefish are just the best for sharing their time and knowledge, but you are also to be commended for staying calm and just taking it all one step at a time and caring so much. It's amazing how good it feels when you've managed to accomplish something like this, isn't it?! Continued best wishes for Usher :goodluck and that everything continues to improve! :thumb:

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I'm ordering the CedaPraz now- any advice on how to use it once it gets here would be nice, also, anyone want to buy some of the leftover stuff before I put it on ebay?

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I'm ordering it from here later once I have found somewhere that sells very accurate scales...

http://www.pharmaq.co.uk/shop/erol.html#483X1056

I've also been reading this repeatedly

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...amp;hl=CedaPraz

The dose is 4g per 1000 litres and my tank is 180 litres... so 1g per 250 litres... so I need to measure out less than a gram. This is all very chemistry/maths and confusing for me!

Edited by Carolinedoodle

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