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I Think I Finally Figured Out What's Wrong...


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hey guys- i know i've been kinda absent around the forums, but things have been pretty busy around here.....

>>it's good to be back :D

....okay,

so you all know my beloved chutney.

(chubby little choco. oranda)

well, she's always had a bit of a 'pudgy' belly.

and i've allways assumed that she was egg bound....or something....

but she only dropped eggs, once.

and the swelling never went down.

she just.... continued to grow (in roundness).

and grow.

and today...i was doing a water change, and when i picked her up (to put in her bucket) she was....mushy?

I mean, she eats, and swims and everything...but her movements are awkward and almost look....painfull.

I love her so much, but i'm worried...and don't want her to be constantly hurting.

So i did some research and aparently....a mushy belly is a sign of cancer? organ displacment/stunted growth?

both seem quite plausable.

:unsure:

i'm really worried.

i've allso noticed that some of her scales are losing their 'shimmery-ness'....

and her belly is like...i don't know...it just dosn't look right.

photo:

fishie062.jpg

any opinions?

Edited by Callie
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I wish I could help. Just wanted to say I'm here for support. This probably should go in the diseases forum, so you may want to start answering the questions now so you'll be ready when someone comes on to move this and give you some answers.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level?

Nitrite Level?

Nitrate level?

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)?

Ph Level (KH/GH) out of the Tap?

Brand of test-kit used? (strips or drops?)

[*]Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Add any new fish to the tank?

[*]What do you feed your fish?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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thanks lynda.

but my water perams are pretty stable...

but i'll fill it out anyways :)

here goes.

ammonia 0ppm

nitrite 0ppm

nitrate 19ppm

hardness (gh)150ppm

chlorine 0ppm

alkalinitty (kh)120ppm

ph 7.2 (>6.9 tap)

[*] 20 gallon, running for almost 3 months now.

[*]What is the name and size of the filter/s? emporer 200

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 50% on a weekly basis.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? just chutney- she's around 3 and 1/2 inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? amquel plus

[*]Any medications added to the tank? none.

[*]Add any new fish to the tank? ...she's by herself.

[*]What do you feed your fish? peas, broccoli, spirulina, brine shrimp, blood worms, hikari oranda, spinnach.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

just her swollen belly and 'mushy-ness' ----and lack of scale/color/shimmer

**she'll come up to eat, and eats...and then goes back to bottom sitting.

she only moves if she thinks it's feeding time.

or she just kinda scuttles across the bottom.

it's cute....but clearly there's something wrong...

could it be cancer?

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she does look pretty round dosn't she?? I wonder if she may have a bacterial thing going on ..however I'm not very knowledgable with bacterial issues ..but do you have metro meds on hand Callie?? also can you post a whole picture of her?...she is very round ..but maybe a whole pic will show other signs of what could be going on

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She looks pineconed. Dropsy is the inability to regulate fluids so thats why she's so swollen. The cause? Not sure your water parameters look good. Do you have metromeds? Thats one of the only medications that have worked from me when a fish has dropsy. You can use epsom salts to help with the swelling 1 teaspoon for every 5 gallons. You can get metro meds from Goldfish connection.Hope your fish recovers.

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Hi Calle, I am not an expert but wanted to caution with respect to the epsom salt dose I was told that it is 1/4 teaspoon epsom per 10 US gal (not 1 teaspoon per 5) and that dose worked for me. Maybe you should hold off until someone can confirm?

In any case, good luck!

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she does look pretty round dosn't she?? I wonder if she may have a bacterial thing going on ..however I'm not very knowledgable with bacterial issues ..but do you have metro meds on hand Callie?? also can you post a whole picture of her?...she is very round ..but maybe a whole pic will show other signs of what could be going on

yea...i was thinking bacterial infection too...but when i read up on her symptoms it rang up as 'cancer' and i was, like, about to cry.

ANYWAYS.

i've moved her into the 10 gallon (it's easier to dose w/ salt and meds)

and i took some more pictures which i'll put at the end of this post.

>>thanks heidi

She looks pineconed. Dropsy is the inability to regulate fluids so thats why she's so swollen. The cause? Not sure your water parameters look good. Do you have metromeds? Thats one of the only medications that have worked from me when a fish has dropsy. You can use epsom salts to help with the swelling 1 teaspoon for every 5 gallons. You can get metro meds from Goldfish connection.Hope your fish recovers.

>>i've ordered metro meds from GC....but they might not get here for a couple of days...

... i've allways been under the impression that it was 3 tsp. per US gallon for an effective salt treatment.

IE: 30 tsps for 10 US gallons.

>>>correct me if i'm wrong.

as far as pinconing goes, she looks...strange.

but i'm not sure if it's 'pinconing'

but, none of my fish have ever expirienced dropsy....so i don't really know.

i'll be posting some pictures at the end of this....further analysis would be much apreciated :D

correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Calle, I am not an expert but wanted to caution with respect to the epsom salt dose I was told that it is 1/4 teaspoon epsom per 10 US gal (not 1 teaspoon per 5) and that dose worked for me. Maybe you should hold off until someone can confirm?

In any case, good luck!

thanks sea, i'm holding off on treatment untill we figure out what's going on...

pictures:

111111.jpg

111.jpg

3-3.jpg

2-6.jpg

1-9.jpg

0.jpg

her eyes look a little bit swollen too....

fishie010-2.jpg

fishie018.jpg

...please. please. pleassseeeeee. don't let it be dropsy.

:(

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Callie don't use aquarium salt with epsom salt ,the two salts don't mix ..so you will have to get rid of any aquarium salt in your tank if you have any before adding epsom..you add 1/4 of a teaspoon per 10 gallons .....I would also go get the macyrn 2 to be ready..I feel she is swelling and you need the epsom to help bring it down and for some relife, be sure not to OD it will cause anemia

Edited by hi-d
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i've ordered metro meds from GC....but they might not get here for a couple of days...

... i've allways been under the impression that it was 3 tsp. per US gallon for an effective salt treatment.

IE: 30 tsps for 10 US gallons.

>>>correct me if i'm wrong.

as far as pinconing goes, she looks...strange.

but i'm not sure if it's 'pinconing'

but, none of my fish have ever expirienced dropsy....so i don't really know.

i'll be posting some pictures at the end of this....further analysis would be much apreciated :D

correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Callie -- It is good to hear from you again, although I wish it were under better circumstances.

The starting dose of EPSOM salts is 1/4 tsp. per ten gallons. The 3 tsp. per gallon dose applies to REGULAR salt only.

It is kind of hard to tell from the photos if Chutney is dropsied. The last photo makes her appear sort of pineconed. Can you take a photo from directly overhead? This is usually the best view to discern scales that are lifting.

If she is pineconing you need to get Metromeds ASAP. Can you call them back and request overnight shipping?

Please keep us posted.

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i've ordered metro meds from GC....but they might not get here for a couple of days...

... i've allways been under the impression that it was 3 tsp. per US gallon for an effective salt treatment.

IE: 30 tsps for 10 US gallons.

>>>correct me if i'm wrong.

as far as pinconing goes, she looks...strange.

but i'm not sure if it's 'pinconing'

but, none of my fish have ever expirienced dropsy....so i don't really know.

i'll be posting some pictures at the end of this....further analysis would be much apreciated :D

correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Callie -- It is good to hear from you again, although I wish it were under better circumstances.

The starting dose of EPSOM salts is 1/4 tsp. per ten gallons. The 3 tsp. per gallon dose applies to REGULAR salt only.

It is kind of hard to tell from the photos if Chutney is dropsied. The last photo makes her appear sort of pineconed. Can you take a photo from directly overhead? This is usually the best view to discern scales that are lifting.

If she is pineconing you need to get Metromeds ASAP. Can you call them back and request overnight shipping?

Please keep us posted.

DUDE.

i completley skipped over the word 'epsom'

sorry bout that :ignore

....i'm not sure if i have any epsom salt either....

uhoh.

i guess i'll be tracking that down too....

i'm gonna try and see if i can change the shipping.

>>i'm also gonna take a trip down to my lfs and see if they have any metro meds in stock...

>>>i'll attempt to take a top-veiw picture....hold on.

Sorry hear is where I got the info on the epsom salt dosage

http://www.koitime.com/goldfishguy/Goldfis...fish_health.htm

3 teaspoons per gallon is for regular salt which you don't want to use if it is dropsy. I hope the metromeds get there soon. Are the scales sticking out?

sorry.

i didn't realise we were talking about 'epsom' salts.

and not regular salt.

i'm a bit frazzled at the moment

>>but thanks for all the info.

:D

>>>i'll be posting a top veiw picture soon and you guys can help me decide....i'm not quite sure if they're 'sticking out' but they look....ruffled?

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i've ordered metro meds from GC....but they might not get here for a couple of days...

... i've allways been under the impression that it was 3 tsp. per US gallon for an effective salt treatment.

IE: 30 tsps for 10 US gallons.

>>>correct me if i'm wrong.

as far as pinconing goes, she looks...strange.

but i'm not sure if it's 'pinconing'

but, none of my fish have ever expirienced dropsy....so i don't really know.

i'll be posting some pictures at the end of this....further analysis would be much apreciated :D

correct me if i'm wrong.

Hi Callie -- It is good to hear from you again, although I wish it were under better circumstances.

The starting dose of EPSOM salts is 1/4 tsp. per ten gallons. The 3 tsp. per gallon dose applies to REGULAR salt only.

It is kind of hard to tell from the photos if Chutney is dropsied. The last photo makes her appear sort of pineconed. Can you take a photo from directly overhead? This is usually the best view to discern scales that are lifting.

If she is pineconing you need to get Metromeds ASAP. Can you call them back and request overnight shipping?

Please keep us posted.

Sorry about the wrong dosage for the epsom salts. Call Goldfish connection and see if he's sent it out yet, if not see about overnight or priority mail. He's always been very good when I ordered meds from him. You LFS will not have it on stock. If you fish is eating that is a good sign. Let's hope the metromeds get there soon....

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top veiw:

(wile doing this, i noticed that her one side is WAY more swollen than the other...and her spine is like....bent. :blink: )

0000000.jpg

00000.jpg

00-1.jpg

000.jpg

**unfortunatly, my tripod is being borrowed by a friend... so i had to take all these by hand (my hands shake) so there isn't very much definition on her scales...but, like i said, they arn't 'sticking out' they just kinda look....lumpy?

Edited by Callie
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You can get epsom salts at any drug or grocery store. They will be in a bag and will be on the aisle with bandaids and Ace wraps. If you can't find them, ask the pharmacist.

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You can get epsom salts at any drug or grocery store. They will be in a bag and will be on the aisle with bandaids and Ace wraps. If you can't find them, ask the pharmacist.

allright...i'll try to get down there within the next few hours....

:unsure:

i'm getting a little freaked out.....----could you identify anything in the photos? (or are they too blurry?)

**yes, she's still eating and swimming(which makes getting a picture of her twice as hard :rolleyes: )

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Oh man, this isnt dropsy's hun. This is either egg impactment or a tumor in side. I had a fish that got this big and she was filled with water sacs inside her when she died.

The best thing I can suggest since I havent seen a fish come back from this, is to get the epsom salt into the tank, still raise the temp up, and dont feed for 3-4 days then only peas. Dont feed anything else and she might absorb the eggs back again :D

Im sorry hun :(

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I'm sorry, Callie. I know how much you love Chutney.

Koko, do you think it would help to feed her a piece of epsom salt in a pea? I read that that can help with egg impaction.

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Oh man, this isnt dropsy's hun. This is either egg impactment or a tumor in side. I had a fish that got this big and she was filled with water sacs inside her when she died.

The best thing I can suggest since I havent seen a fish come back from this, is to get the epsom salt into the tank, still raise the temp up, and dont feed for 3-4 days then only peas. Dont feed anything else and she might absorb the eggs back again :D

Im sorry hun :(

I'm sorry, Callie. I know how much you love Chutney.

Koko, do you think it would help to feed her a piece of epsom salt in a pea? I read that that can help with egg impaction.

thanks for all the support you guys.

i kindof have a bad feeling about this....

but she's so sprightly, it's hard imagine that whatever this is could possibly be terminal...

even when she's bottom sitting, she allways wiggles her squishy little butt all the way over to the front of the tank when ever i so much as go near it.

....i just don't want her to suffer.... :cry1

I'm starting the epsom dosage tonight...

And the slow raise of temperature...

And her 3 day fast...

I really hope she'll pull through... unfortunatly....she's not looking too good....

:(

Edited by Callie
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I'm sorry, Callie. I know how much you love Chutney.

Koko, do you think it would help to feed her a piece of epsom salt in a pea? I read that that can help with egg impaction.

Yes this would be a good thing to do once or twice a day......

Im sorry Callie, when I saw my Dede go through this at her end it was heart breaking :hug for u hun :D

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:cry1 ...so sorry Callie ...if she felt really ill I don't think she would eat ...but in my experience that can stop anytime :cry1 ...my fingers are crossed for your little sweetheart :heart:cry1
I'm sorry, Callie. I know how much you love Chutney.

Koko, do you think it would help to feed her a piece of epsom salt in a pea? I read that that can help with egg impaction.

Yes this would be a good thing to do once or twice a day......

Im sorry Callie, when I saw my Dede go through this at her end it was heart breaking :hug for u hun :D

thanks you guys...

:)

>>i'll be putting a piece of epsom salt in one of her peas when i resume feeding....

for now, she's just kinda floating....and bottom sitting....moving every so often to avoid the filter current....

it's really sad. :cry2

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