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Trinket

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It's about 2 years overdue actually. We've been married 16 years and the last 2 have been really, really bad :( My H cannot control his temper and is turning into a carbon copy of his Father- something he always vowed he would never do. His Father yells at his wife all day long and has been known to hit her on occasion too. Over time I had begun to realise how H is going to get worse not better. This is not a decision that was made overnight, its something more inevitable that has just culminated in having to leave through a whole long set of complicated problems, mostly to do with the way we do not agree on bringing up kids I suppose.

I feel terribly sad. Its a huge chunk of life to share with someone and I really did love him. He was a good Father when my 2 boys were small but as they grew and became opiniated young adults he became so insensitive to their changing needs and I feel his seargent major Fathering is well over half the reason my older son is now in psychotherapy. It's really time to leave.

So in Japan, there is no contest over the kids. they always go with the Mother. Anyway, both boys (15 and 16 years old) want to come with me. I am trying to get practical stuff done like looking into a house loan and so on, it seems unfair that H wants to keep his house but not much I can do there. Its not mine, he bought it outright, its going to be really really hard renting or paying mortgage after so many years rent free but thats the price I have to pay for mine and my kids' sanity here.

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oh Trinket..I'm sorry you are having troubles ..but yet you must do what is in the best interest of your own well being and your kids..you can only go forward :hug ..I wish nothing but the best for you and your kids ..it will be a long hard road but it is well worth the inner peace you need to feel at this time....... :grouphug group hug for you !! :heart ..

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I think you should be proud of yourself for making this decision :heart

My mom waited 27 years to do the same and now she's a whole new woman. She also had to do the whole renting thing again as dad wasn't willing to give up the house either, but if you stay positive it won't be too bad :) It sounds like you're doing the right thing for youself and your children for sure, I think you're starting a whole new chapter of your life.

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Thankyou for the support you two :heart . I know I am doing the right thing, should have perhaps done it sooner. 27 years Chrissy WOW your Mom was patient. But when you know, you know its time to move on. I have to keep stopping myself from feeling sorry for H who is now saying he will need to use my washing machine every week and come round and pick up meals sometimes...sheesh. This part is going to be hard. Where do we draw the line?

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Aww Imogen. You are going through such a hard time. I was wondering the circumstances surrounding everything. I understand your sadness and all of the decisions you are facing right now.

Your situation is soo familiar to me. Shane's family has a long history of men behaving that way. Starting with his grandfather. He passed away recently and even up until a few years back he was beating his wife. Everyone knew, no one said a word, and she wouldn't leave him. This had a huge impact on Shane's dad. He grew up very similar. Man knows all, woman must listen. He has a raging temper at times. He has threatened to hit his wife on many occasions. And he would threaten Shane while he was growing up, and has hit him on occasion when he was younger. The family has grown up and become accustomed to doing what he says, when he says it. It does not sit well for me.

My father was also similar in character. He has an unpredicatable angry side, but did not take it out physically. Verbally, yes. I was called everything in the book, from fat to ugly to a spoiled selfish brat. I, like your son, started therapy when I was around 14 to deal with the issues. However, as I got older I got stronger and chose to not allow him to get away with these things. It caused a lot of tension in my family, because they attempted to "ignore it and it will go away". I chose to stand up to him. I do the same thing as often as I can with Shane's dad, as does Shane. Shane put him in line very recently on a trip out there. To some degree I feel sorry for him, because he grew up with that influence. And for the most part he fights against it. But when that bad person comes out, well it's just horrible. There are times he can be the nicest most caring man though. I don't believe he wants to be this way. I know he tries not to be. He & I have a pretty good relationship. 99.9% of the time I get along with him, and we joke around together. But when I see him lash out, I get mad. Shane fortunarly does not display any of his father or grandfathers qualities. He's made a point to turn out nothing like them and if he even sees a small side of that come out, he corrects his behavior.

You said you ran into problems when your boys got older and developed their own opinions. I see that too. If someone has an opinion different than my father OR my father in law, they get threatened to be "slapped down" or called names. One time I disagreed with my father in law and was told he would come up here and kick my ---. I told him to go ahead and try it. Its hard to bite your tongue when it is not your home and nobody else speaks for themselves. Because of this I have chosed to keep my time out there limited. They are learning to stand up for themselves better though. At at this point 2 out of 3 of his kids are living in PA with me,while the third is planning on moving when she graduates. That says something. So I understand how you feel. My mother in law struggles with whether she should stay or leave. She should have honestly left a long time ago, but I believe she is too afraid to do things on her own without his income, etc. She always says money is a big part of it, because she hasn't worked in years. As for my father, my mom left him about a year ago after an incident involving my daughter. I had Taylor quite young and moved in with my parents because I could not afford to be out on my own. Shane came too, and we ended up putting an addition on so that we have our own living space, but share a kitchen, dining room etc. It worked well for the most part, especially financially, and Taylor got to see her grandparents every day. The last few years my dad got worse and when something happened with my daughter which was simply not okay, I told my mother that we were leaving and it didn't matter where. I suppose it took something to that extreme but later that night he was gone,and we were back. It's been a very difficult time, and it was extremely hard for my mom. However, this past year she has been the happiest she has ever been. When I ask her if she regrets anything, her answer is "only that I didn't leave sooner". Money is a problem for her. The only thing she says she misses is "money" and she says it's worth it.

Sorry to get off on my own experiences. I am long winded as you know, but my point is that I understand your situation and feel for you. You are such a strong person for seeing the correct action to take, and being brave enough to do so. You are doing the right thing for yourself and your kids. It's so hard for so many people to take that road, where you are uncertain and have to start over again.. It's hard when you have or had genuine feelings for that person, but know in your heart that you must go. In the short time I've known you I've learned what a wonderful and caring person you are, and you deserve to be with someone that treats you and your family right. (At some point down the line.. Right now I'm sure you could use some alone time lol) Good luck with everything. I wish you the best! Like I said, if you EVER need to talk, or just to vent I am here.. Doesn't matter when. Lord knows you've sat with me writing back and forth on more than one occasion! lol

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Trinket, Sue is so right. By leaving now you are giving your sons the chance to grow up and be different kind of men. I can only imagine how hard it will be, but just know that we all are here to back you up. Please keep us posted and know how much we all love you.

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Dear Sue thankyou :) . It is always good to hear about similar experiences and Shane's Grandpa and your FIL sound like they have similar domineering sides to them. Of course its not the whole person, it is just apart of them and there are wonderful tender sides to most people too. I always try to see the good side of my husband first and it is possible that without the tension and trial of kids (and most especially young teens) that this marriage would have worked out. But kids bring in a whole new set of family dynamics as they grow and become individual people. It' s hard. The irony in our case is I was young and got pregnant with Justin as a student and then married H, doing the right thing- later down the road Justin -my love child- is the one tearing us apart. Life's path is a funny thing.

Thankyou Kristen :heart

The good thing is I do have an income of my own to make this happen. I know many women don't- that must be so awful, knowing there is no way out. Ways out always need money.

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Justin is lucky to have you as a mom. Having your support is going to make a such a difference for him long term. Especially if you and your husbands methods of "dealing" with him and raising him are a source of trouble.. It's a cheesy way to phrase it, but these are no longer the days of "Stand By Your Man". Too many times I've seen kids suffer because of that very outlook. But it sounds like you are doing everything to help your boys, and they are going to look back and realize "wow. Mom did all of this for ME".

It's really sad that the circumstances have pulled you apart.. I really do know what you mean about seeing the good in people. You're probably going to go back and forth every day. Sometimes thinking of the good times, sometimes thinking of the bad times. It sounds like you guys will still have some sort of friendship left that you can save. It also sounds like he is going to realize that he relies on you for more than he knows. If him coming by to use a washing machine makes you uncomfortable, or something else similiar, put your foot down. If it is within your comfort range it's fine. Like you said, every situation is different. Something that might work for you guys might seem off to others, but so what?

There was a time Shane and I actually chose to "break up" while living in the same home. People thought we were CRAZY. It was what we needed though. Small things that changed just by changing what we called our relationship were enough for us to eventually realize that it was worth working out our differences. We have always been best friends, but there were aspects of our relationship that weren't working as a couple. We still run into that. The last few months have been a struggle. For now we're still trying.

In a way I relate to the problems having a teenager in the house as well. Shane's sister just turned 18 years old. To some level she feels like my daughter, I've known her since she was about 6 or 7. Shane has always thought of her as a daughter. With her moving here, it has completely changed the dynamic between Shane & I. As I've said in a million places, I like alone time. I also like alone time with my guy. That means no kids, Tanya OR Taylor. Tanya is very needy though. She does not like ANY alone time. However, her feelings have been hurt by her parents so much that it's a delicate balance. She is old enough that she should learn to do things on her own, and be okay with Shane & I having our own space. But at the same time we don't want to hurt her feelings. It's put a HUGE strain on our relationship. Right now everyone is still adjusting. We don't even know if she will stay. She's already quit her first job, while lying to us saying she was fired. (I found out the truth though!)

This has only been 2 months. So in some ways we are going through a lot of issues caring for a teenager. And a big part of me still feels like a teenager myself!!! It must be 1000 times more difficult for you and your husband.

Life is sooo strange. You just never know how things are going to work out, but I've really become a firm believer that whatever is meant to happen will.. It's hard to remind yourself of that though when things are going wrong. I look at every little thing in my life and try to see how something small may have turned into more.. Even something silly. Like having a sick fish, and having it be the reason I found 1) a hobby to take my mind of things and 2) everyone here who have quickly in my mind become more like friends than some friends I have in "real life".

GEEEEEEEZ do I talk much?! What am I trying to become the next Oprah or what?!

Ohh I know what you should do! Once your kids are older you can become a traveling fish doctor!! Various members of this board can let you stay at their places rent free for given amounts of time while you cure all the fish with your magic touch! LOL We can provide food, water, etc. Back off though people! I get her first since it was my idea LMAO

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I always try to see the good side of my husband first and it is possible that without the tension and trial of kids (and most especially young teens) that this marriage would have worked out. But kids bring in a whole new set of family dynamics as they grow and become individual people. It' s hard. The irony in our case is I was young and got pregnant with Justin as a student and then married H, doing the right thing- later down the road Justin -my love child- is the one tearing us apart. Life's path is a funny thing.

Isn't that the truth. Children put SO much stress on a marriage. Although I think things are going to be okay, my husband and I have had a HARD time over the past few years as well. And this is just with toddlers. If it gets any worse with teenagers, I don't know how we're going to manage. I am lucky that my husband doesn't have a temper. Unfortunately in most cases it is ME that is doing the yelling. :blush:

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Hehe thanks Sue, a travelling fish doc sounds like a cool job and one I'd enjoy but wait a minute...what about kokos! I don't have to go anywhere and can do that here :rofl Like you -I value friendships here as much as "live" friendships. I was just saying to Pixie the other day, it's incredible how close you can get to people in cyberspace!! And make friends with people you would never in a million years have ever had the opportunity- or resources- to meet. Most of my friends who are not computer addicted cannot seem to fathom this though...

Acupunk- I think Mothers do tend to do the shouting when children are small. It's very normal Motherhood! As long as you all communicate you'll be fine later on I am sure. For us it was the total breakdown of communication between Father and son that put strain on the marriage and unfortunately that is not repairable considering the damage it has done to J- who was always sensitive beyond sensitive maximum. I brought J into this world and I sure as h* am making certain he gets the best from it and right now that best is OUT of here. Things have moved on a lot this week. After going ballistic at the news, H has come around and I think is planning his own way too.

We seem to be talking and being civilised about this- a pleasant suprise to me.

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Oh yeah and Imogen! I haven't mailed your package yet. I am waiting on something (you will understand better once you get it). At this point let me know if anything changes address wise. I should be able to get it out on Wednesday or Friday. Don't ask, just trust me. It's a little surprise. Shhhhhhhh. : )

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:hug Hi Trinks,

You WILL get through this, Hon. It's time. Once you know it's time, it all falls into place. Try not to worry about things, because you will get things done. That's the kind of person you are. I'm sure doors will open for you that you didn't have access to before.

And where do you draw the line? That's up to you. I know it's nice to think that maybe a relationship between H and the boys can happen if he gets to see them regularly. But do they want to? You need to think of them here, too. I wouldn't fix him any meals. The saying "He made his bed, now he can lay in it" would fit here. He pushed you all away with his actions and attitude - and then wants to come around for food and favors? Puh-leez.... :glare:

I totally understand what you mean about having a huge chunk of your life with someone... Someone that - at one time - was the most fabulous person in the world, who you dreamed you'd spend the rest of your life with. But they aren't that same person anymore. It's a very sad thing to go through, but you need the mindset that it's what's is definitely what's best for you - and the boys.

You know that I wish you all the best, Hon - all of you - J and X included. :heart

We should start a support group... the "Leave your Hub Club" or something ;)

It will all be fine, Trinks.... Don't have any doubts - and don't have any fears. You're never alone. :exactly

:heart:bighug always,

Debs

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Thankyou Debs :hug .

You know how I value your advice as this is something you have also been through recently. How is everything?

It is true people change and what was right at one time may not be right now. Like you I always thought my marriage would be the 1 in 10 that works for a lifetime but as you say once you know it isn't, then you have to move on. Like you I also feel quite strong and peaceful about it. The hardest time was just before I told everyone. Justin said "YES: when I told him. He was so pleased. This for me- is everything.

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Justin said "YES: when I told him. He was so pleased. This for me- is everything.

When your kids are behind you and support you, it IS everything. My son thanks me constantly for being such a wonderful Mom. Thanks me for doing so much for them, and even told me that I was like a slave to them, doing everything for them. And Lynnie & Missy do the same.

They don't say anything, but they see how things are and they know that you've endured things for them. I'm sure your boys are the same way. I think you'll see a HUGE turnaround in J once your settled - and possibly even before. It shows that - unfortunately - H was a big problem for J.

I do have hopes that someday my kids can have a relationship with their Dad again. I guess because he's human - and I couldn't imagine life without your kids. I can't get enough of mine, and Lynda keeps telling me about houses that are for sale near her - so I can move back! :wub: It's too early though. But this is your thread, not mine. I'll have to post an update one of these days, if anyone is interested. :)

God Bless you, Hon. :hug You're going to feel so peaceful - you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. :rolleyes:

Debs

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Well, I'm without man now, but it's not like I've never been without... in fact, that's why I'm now without.... by choice and permanently. My last live-in relationship was 10 years. I, too, thought it would last forever. He was one of those charismatic charmers and the world loved him. People flocked around him like flies to honey. He was an attorney too, which means he had a fabulous ability to turn words. Of course, this was an innate ability he would've had no matter what his profession was. He'd stay out drinking most every night of the week until the bars closed. He wasn't an alcoholic; he really wasn't. He just liked to socialize. I'd consider it a very good week when he only was out 3 out of 7 nights. But, when I tried to call him on it and ask him to explain why he does this, he had this amazing ability to turn it around and by the end of the discussion, I was the one apologizing. hmmm.... He was also psychologically abusive. I was never good enough for him. No matter what I did or said or looked like, there was always something I could do better in his eyes and he made sure I knew it. It was bad after 4 years, I left after 6, but then came back 3 months later... duh... I couldn't afford to pay my own way and had to stay with my parents or sister. And I was psychologically co-dependent. I just didn't think I was good enough to make it on my own. Heck! I didn't even know who I was it had been so long that I had been trying to be someone else. Finally, he found someone else (had found someone else for about 6 months before he had the cajones to tell me, I came to find out) and I got the boot; for being too fat among other things. "I'm sorry if that sounds superficial; I guess I am, but that's just how it is and who I am and I won't apologize for it," he said. Lovely attitude. It took 4 years for me to find myself and my confidence enough to date again and after dating for several years after that and finally knowing I would not compromise for anyone for anything, I just decided it isn't worth it. I'm taking care of myself. It took a long time to get myself straight financially, but I am now. I'm happy. I'm not lonely. I know who I am. I love not having to answer to anyone. I'm self-sufficient. I know how to use several major power tools! LOL! Why do I need a man? And that's my story.

Trink: No. No laundry and no cooking. He's on drugs! But, then, I think most men are..... it's called testosterone I think... One, he got the house, I'm sure it came with a washer and dryer, he can learn how to use it. And if, for some reason it doesn't have a washer and dryer or he won't learn how to use it, he can learn how to use a laundromat or a laundry service like the rest of us plebians. Same with cooking. He can learn to cook for himself. If he won't, I'm pretty darn sure that Japan has restaurants, fast food and takeout like the rest of the world. You weren't, or shouldn't have been, his maid, babysitter or mother when you were together, you sure the heck shouldn't be now. He needs to put on his big boy undies and learn to take care of himself. This is just another turn of the saying, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? You're separating/divorcing, but you're still taking care of him?! Uh, no, I don't think so. I'm sure I sound like I'm a real hard a**, and I guess I am, but there is no halfway with divorce...IMBO. Being civil and communicating and even leaving being friends is one thing; a great thing, but it does not mean you are a slave. I think Nancy Reagan said it best: "Just Say No!"

And that's my soliloquy.

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I am so sorry to hear this news! It's always so sad when a family breaks up. I can't offer any advice, I've never been in that situation with children, but I do know a thing or two about stress. It is very hard to live in an angry or unhappy home. The stress in your life can be draining. Throw children into the mix, and it must be overwhelming. You have their stress to add to your own. I understand your decision, I probably would have made the same one.

I wish you well, and I hope you, H, and your sons can find a peaceful solution. Pm me anytime you want, I can't help much, but I am a good listener.

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Lynda, that's so awful :hug If you don't mind me saying he sounds like a complete skumbag :ignore I do think there are better and nice men out there!!! It sounds like you have empowered yourself and are doing well without anyone at the moment though.

Oh and Sue- no worries about the package back there. I had forgotten and anyway its really not necessary hun!

Rach- I will PM you, think I owe you one. Thanks for the support :heart

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Lynda, that's so awful :hug If you don't mind me saying he sounds like a complete skumbag :ignore I do think there are better and nice men out there!!! It sounds like you have empowered yourself and are doing well without anyone at the moment though.

Oh and Sue- no worries about the package back there. I had forgotten and anyway its really not necessary hun!

Rach- I will PM you, think I owe you one. Thanks for the support :heart

Nope! Don't mind you sayin' one bit! He is a scumbag! He married that poor girl and my friends say they see him out all night at bars just like before... poor girl... part of me wants to laugh and go hah! and part of me sympathizes cuz it's not her fault. But, that was a long time ago and I'm way past that. The most important thing a woman should realize is that she DOES NOT NEED a man. A woman should realize that she enjoys sharing part of her life with a man, but she should never NEED one. A man should never define a woman. Anyway, this isn't about me. This is about YOU! It's your time to shine and be the center and be loved! And we love you! Cyberlove forever!

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Trinket,

You will get through this and it will be better than before :hug

My aunt (before she was my aunt) was married to a man who hit her and the kids. She left him and met my uncle (who was resenlty divorced because his wife had fell inlove with a complete moron and a drunk). You should see her now, 15 years later, she lost a 100 pounds and is so happy and sparkling :D . Her kids see my uncle as their 'real' father and all 3 are doing really wel. :D

Ohh I know what you should do! Once your kids are older you can become a traveling fish doctor!! Various members of this board can let you stay at their places rent free for given amounts of time while you cure all the fish with your magic touch! LOL We can provide food, water, etc. Back off though people! I get her first since it was my idea LMAO

By then we havere several spare rooms and a 'tamed' and beautifull garden :yeah:

:rofl

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:heart:heart:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:bighug:heart:heart:heart:heart:heart:heart:heart

And now paste this inside your wallet, wardrobe, on the fridge and on the washing machine, in case you forget!!!!!!

No laundry and no cooking. One, he got the house, I'm sure it came with a washer and dryer, he can learn how to use it. And if, for some reason it doesn't have a washer and dryer or he won't learn how to use it, he can learn how to use a laundromat or a laundry service like the rest of us plebians.

Same with cooking. He can learn to cook for himself. If he won't, I'm pretty darn sure that Japan has restaurants, fast food and takeout like the rest of the world.

You weren't, or shouldn't have been, his maid, babysitter or mother when you were together, you sure the heck shouldn't be now.

He needs to put on his big boy undies and learn to take care of himself. This is just another turn of the saying, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? You're separating/divorcing, but you're still taking care of him?! Uh, no, I don't think so.

:tomuch: She is absolutely right!!!!

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Lol yes I forgot to mention I got a HUGE chuckle out of that too :lol:

Thanks for the big hug brigade :D

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Imogen, you know all of us are behind you and here for you. I so admire your courage in making this decision as I didn't have the guts to do it myself. After 24 years HE walked on ME, and no one could believe it! Everybody always figured I'd leave him first. Please don't let him pull the pity card as I had a hard time with that also. The funny thing is that X has been married 4 TIMES since our divorce was final in 2002 and talks ad nauseum about what a mistake he made, lol.

The funny thing is that I am happier than I've ever been in my life. I have a great job, just got promoted, can come and go when I want, sleep when I want, spend money when I want...its like I was suddenly FREED, and you will be the same and so will your sons. Like a great weight has been lifted from your shoulders.

You are doing the best thing for your sons. I wish I had done it when my son was much younger, and I watch him closely now as I'm worried he will be the same kind of demanding husband and father that his own father was. He didn't have much of an example, and I feel guilty about that.

We are all here for you. Many of us have been where you are and know the pain and self-doubt you are experiencing. We love you and are behind you 100%. :grouphug:grouphug:grouphug:grouphug

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The good thing is I do have an income of my own to make this happen. I know many women don't- that must be so awful, knowing there is no way out. Ways out always need money.

That is SO true. My mom was jobless and ill when my dad left, it's really a horrible situation. I think so far you're doing great! You have a great outlook and things are going to be fine for you :)

As for your son saying "YES" when you told him, that sounds exactly like me when I heard about my parent's divorce. Kids see everything and if your H wasn't being the nicest guy for the past few years, believe me, they knew. I started to realize how my dad treated my mom when I was about 10, by the time I was 13 I actually hated him and would wish my parents would get a divorce! I'll bet your sons are actually pretty happy about this.

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