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Lulu Has A Hole In Her Wen!


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LuLu has an ulcer or somthing :cry1 .. I noticed a peice of wen floating around and quickly examined her with a fashlight to find to holes(ulcers ) in her wen

ammonia0

nitrite0

nitrate around 10

ph 8.2

I moved her to the hospital tank and gradully brought it up to 0.3%...I have antibacterial food by jungle and started feeding her..I also swabbed the areas affected with peroxcide..they are red and meaty looking and it has white in it I can't really explain it I have a pic but only shows the redness she is a little bit more tippy than usual I am noticing a bit of slime coat floating around her wen area she has been treated for flukes once but I am wondering if she is having a reaccurance..I am hoping this is not hole in the head but I'm not sure...

here is a pic

http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm43/ma...=Picture275.jpg

she also has one at the top of her head but small and hard to take a picture of

Edited by hi-d
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Oh gosh. It sounds like you are doing all the right things, though. Do you have Metromeds? It is supposed to be for hole in the head. Hopefully Trinket or Pixiefish will be along to help you soon. Keep us posted.

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:( I don't have metromeds ...I'm not sure if it is hole in the head ??? ..although she has been treated for flukes with pc tabs in the past I'm wondering if it was not enough and they have got a foothold on her or if it is bacterial..I'm trying to figure out if it has worked from the inside out or vice versa.. :( the food I do have is for external and internal although I belive it does not help HITH disease... Edited by hi-d
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I guess I don't really think of wen sores as being a symptom of flukes, but I might be wrong.

I was reading an article the other day about wen growth that said that as the wen grows sometimes sections develop that lack adequate blood supply. Those small sections of the wen can die and decompose, but that the area typically heals eventually with no problem. I will try to remember where I saw that article...

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she's okay ..I'm thinking Furan 2 to cover gram negitive and positive bacteria ..the reason I'm thinking it is not hole in the head is that pc tabs contains metronidozal thats treats hexamita.(I used it a while back). :unsure: ..maybe not strong enough???..I can get my hands on metro+ right aways but I will have to order the other meds like metromeds online which could take days... :( I am hoping to hear from Trinket or Pixiefish soon to stear me more in the right direction .

Edited by hi-d
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I really hope Lulu is getting better! and as the others have said it really does sound as though you are doing everything that you can for her.

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I really hope Lulu is getting better! and as the others have said it really does sound as though you are doing everything that you can for her.

thanks peanuts...she seems comfy enough ...I think my best bet is to elimanate any possible parasites ..I did find out she was a seasonal pond fish so she could be loaded :o and pc tabs only killed off a few ,you never know ...so off to get my prazi and anti parsite food and I'll go from there...just a question and I hope someone can answere me ..can I use prazi pro with antiparasite food by jungle ???.(contains metronidazol and praziquental as well).I assume I can just want to be safe

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I strongly suggest getting metromeds for your fish. I have had a ranchu with similar wen problem and used metromeds and it cleared up within a week. I continued treatment for 2 weeks anyway. I hope your oranda is doing well and makes a full recovery.

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Thanks Joy :heart ....did I mention the poor girl is full of eggs too!!!she is reabsorbing them so I'm not going to worry much with that right now ..I just did a 75% waterchange to keep thing sqeaky clean for her she seemed to perk up a bit to ..so I will change her water everyother day

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Hi-d, it's very difficult to see any holes in the pics you posted hun. Are there lots or just the one? It's a very hard thing to photograph on a black fish..a description will do.

It's interesting you say she is full of eggs because I noticed once when my black moor was re-absorbing eggs, she also developed a crater type hole in the wen area. Now she is not a wen fish and I merely dabbed the hole with a Qtip of 2% iodine tincture/hp will do. I didn't treat the whole tank and I only dabbed once as repeated topical applications do more harm than good. The point is I do believe female fish put a lot of their immune strength into the production/and/or absorption of eggs and they are very vulnerable at this time. I suggest the thing you focus on most here next time if this happens again is diet. Extra vitamin C has been known to heal up one little hole that may or may not be the work of hexamita.

That said, if its more than one hole then it is more worrying and the anti-parasite food containing metro will surely help. The PC tabs percentage of metro you used before is very low and because it is water born is not quite so potent for internal problems which hexamita or holes often suggest.

The prazi s always good.

PS: Just re-read and see you did do a topical application - well done. Seems you are doing all you can but the MMs would be the best food here..

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Hi-d, it's very difficult to see any holes in the pics you posted hun. Are there lots or just the one? It's a very hard thing to photograph on a black fish..a description will do.

It's interesting you say she is full of eggs because I noticed once when my black moor was re-absorbing eggs, she also developed a crater type hole in the wen area. Now she is not a wen fish and I merely dabbed the hole with a Qtip of 2% iodine tincture/hp will do. I didn't treat the whole tank and I only dabbed once as repeated topical applications do more harm than good. The point is I do believe female fish put a lot of their immune strength into the production/and/or absorption of eggs and they are very vulnerable at this time. I suggest the thing you focus on most here next time if this happens again is diet. Extra vitamin C has been known to heal up one little hole that may or may not be the work of hexamita.

That said, if its more than one hole then it is more worrying and the ant-parasite food containing metro will surely help. The PC tabs percentage of metro you used before is very low and because it is water born is not quite so potent for internal problems which hexamita or holes often suggest.

The prazi s always good.

Thanks Trinket!! there is one located at the top of her head and one at the bottom of her cheek ...they seem to develop under the wen and spread out until exposed at the top the top is dull looking not bright red as the one on her cheek(only the one on her cheek a peice of wen fell off exposing the nasty work that has been going on underneath...it is the size of a dime the one on her head is the size of a small pea) :( ....I have her in the hospital tank water is pristine and ready for anything lots of filtration and airetion.(sorry I can't spell ...most days ;) )..her slimecoat however is stringy around her not a lot but noticable (ph 8)..so I'm gonna go ahead with the prazi...I'll give her favourites kiwi(packed with C)and wait till the go ahead for the food meds ..but I have a feeling I should boosed her full of C before starting food meds...she is moving around a bit more today I have been helping her with her food but today she is scooting around her self for them ...when she is full of eggs she tips and now is completly on her side but still mobile..let me know if the food meds with metro is a go I will get them anyways to be ready..I hope I didn;t miss anything .. :(

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Yes definitely the MMs would be best. I didn't realise the holes were so big :( . They do "merge" I know that. the kiwi sounds really good -all her vitamins are going into producing nice healthy eggs so she needs extra and then when the med food arrives start on a course of that. The stringy slime coat is very "parasite" whiffy.

(oh & and don't worry about the spelling- I have a typo in every post too before editing)

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Hi there -- I am glad that you are getting help from Trinket now. How fast can you get Metromeds? I have a whole bottle -- the bottles are so big and I can't imagine needing to use all of it before it goes bad. I would be totally willing to mail a packet of it to you if that would be faster than getting it from GFC. I have never mailed anything to Canada, so I don't know how long that would take. PM if you want me to. I could do it this afternoon before the post office closes.

Good luck!

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Trinket will the metro by jungle work as well ...I sort of have to keep the visa for hubbies meds (3200$) :yikes ..and I don't know how I will explain LuLu's meds before his own.. :rofl ..here is a link to the food the antiparasite has metro at 1.0% prazi as well at 0.5% and levamisole at 0.4%....here is the link http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=12788

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i know the food. I have used it once before. It is for internal worms basically. The thing about the MMs is it contains oxytetracycline which is just so fabulous and magic at secondary infection (that red) that is so often flex. PLUS it has the metro too AND it has sulfa drugs which are wound cleansing. You really dont need the levamisole and prazi in the water will help with any flukes..

Could you not take Kristen up on her offer a few posts back, did you see it :) ?

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It's nice when members can help each other out. i am sure you can help her some day too..those MMs do not keep, none of the med food is at its best after opening several months and should be used really and the packs are always way more than is needed! :goodluck

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*sniff ,sniff*..I am so overwhelmed right now it has been crazy here and lulu gets ill to add... for Kristen to help like that and for the understanding and support on this board restores any faith on human kindness I may have lost along my ways ..Kristen I am forever in debt to you !!! :heart:heart:heart:heart:heart

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