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Heeeellppp Septicimia?


Saiyori

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Okay, i havent been on in a while, so hi.....unfortunately peaches (male oranda, 4-5in with tail) seems to have septicimia. This morning I went to feed my fish (i have guppies in there as well) they were fine. I came home tonight to find a guppy, minnow, and an algae eater dead. I removed them from the tank to discover that they seemed bruised and bloody. The guppy even exploded at a touch. They were oozing with blood, and seemed rotted. I am confused, and the only thing i have found to be a potential cause is septicimia. The ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph are all fine. 37ga tank. Biowheel filter with a carbon thingy (marineland brand). I change the water once a week, around 50% at most, 10-20% if it seems okay testkitwise. Several small guppies, 2 female bettas and 1 male betta, 1 upside down catfish (supposed to be that way) and 3 other small goldies. I know this is overstocked, but I keep the bad stuff levels down. Bacterial supplement added for the nitrate&ntrite and ammonia eating kind, dechlorinator, slime coat. New minnow (caught from river and quarintined) 3 weeks ago. I feed them a mix of algae, shrimp (dried) and betta bites for the bettas. Peache has bloody streaks in fins. Peaches is also floating upside down at the top, not moving much. Keep in mind that they all looked 100% fine this morning, even the ones that were found dead. I was considering salt dipping/baths/treating the tank, but i would need instructions on how to do the dips/baths. I am sure that all 4 of the goldies in there are males, 3 orandas and 1 singletail speciesunknown. Please help any way you can, I dont want peaches to die.

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First of all - what are your water results? I need these before we can go any further.

Once you've tested the water chem, do a very large change to clear the tank of bacteria following the deaths and possible bloody eruptions.

Just for a kick off, 3 fancy goldies and a single tail would need 50gals .

If on top, you have an upside down catfish plus 3 bettas and guppies and a minnow then the tank is way overstocked, not just a little.

"I change the water once a week, around 50% at most, 10-20% if it seems okay testkitwise."

It is not just a question of watching the nitrates at a water change - there is also the issue of a rapidly escalating bacterial count when a tank is stuffed full. 10/20% water changes would not be enough to keep the bacterial count low enough. Even the 50% change would not be sufficient in my opinion.

My feeling is that you must separate the goldies from the tropicals as they have completely different needs. Do you have another tank or crate?

Let's talk about the minnow. Wild caught and quarantined? Tell us about your qt proceedure.

Once we have this we can try to get a better idea of what's going on.

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I dunno.... :idont IMO placing any fish from the wild with tame lfs fish, even QT'd, doesn't seem like a good idea. The new fish would introduce bacteria and parasites that tame, farm raised fish wouldn't be able to cope with and vice-versa. Plus the fact that store bought fish food wouldn't have the minerals and nutrients that fish raised in the wild would require. Thats just my thoughts, and I could be wrong.

Guppies and algae eaters are tropical fish and require a certain temperature in the water that goldies don't. Its never a good idea to mix them as they have different requirements food-wise also.

Trops cannot handle the ammonia output that goldfish have, plus you are wildly overstocked.

Edited by vickielm
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eep I knew I was overstocked, but my sister's tank (12gals, has 3 goldies same size and a betta) was fine, so I thought it was okay to put less in a big tank...oh well, thats why im here. Peaches is again swimming upright and seems to be fine, as do all the other fish. I had to seperate the single tail into one of those breeder thingies that you put in the same tank and it floats, because he was picking on peaches (which he hasn't done in the 2 months I've had him o.0). As far as the bad stuff levels go, I went to re-test and my kit is expired -.-'. I really dont have any way of getting a new one, either, money is tight. I do have live plants in there, although that has not changed since April. As far as the minnow goes, it was wildcaught and quarintined in a container for several hours, then placed in the main tank. I would have quarintined it for longer, but I do not have an operational quarintine tank at the moment, as it is being used by some surprise baby guppies (all females in my tank 0.o). 50 gals, unfortunately, is not going to happen with the parents. I had to strain to get the 3 fancies out of a 10gal to the 37 I have now, with a special filter that hadles more fish (the marineland biowheel system, I think it does 250gals an hour). I have not fed them today, because I was worried about constipation with peaches, although I still do not know what is wrong with the trops that died. Last night, I also massaged peaches (like you do to release milt when breeding) and got out a lot of milt and some normal looking poop. I think that helped, because he seemed to feel better and started trying to flip right-side-up after I did this. The temperature of the tank is kept at room temperature, around 70, which has not been a problem for the trops or the goldies since January. There is no heater on the tank, although I do have one avaliable to use if necessary. Thanks for the help, by the way =)

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Hi there -- Sorry you are having trouble with your fish.

Have you done the large water change that Pixiefish recommended? I think that should be your top priority.

The Marineland filter is a good filter, but it doesn't give you license to overstock. A 250 gph filter would be adequate for a normally-stocked 25 gallon tank, no more.

A few hours does not count as a quarantine, especially for a wild-caught fish. I suspect that the combination of accumulating bacteria from too many fish with inadequate water changes and bugs on the minnow are the source of your problem. And it may be pretty far gone if you've already lost three fish that went from normal to bloody and rotting within a few hours.

I suspect your common goldfish is picking on Peaches because he knows that Peaches is weak and sick -- sometimes this kind of behavior is the first sign that there is something wrong with a fish.

If I were you I would remove all the fish to another container (bucket, whatever) while you remove all the water from your tank. While you do this vacuum the gravel very thoroughly and/or remove it completely. Replace the water with temperature-matched dechlorinated water. If you just had goldfish in there I would recommend that you start adding aquarium-safe salt to your tank (starting with 1 tsp of salt per gallon), but because you have other species in there I don't know if it would be safe.

Good luck.

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Very good advice from Acupunk. Water changes are your number one priority.

If your tank is 37 gals you should ideally have a filtration rate of 370 gal/per/hr to deal with the gf output - which with 4 is already a very stuffed tank, not even including the others.

Can you not get a smaller second tank for the tropicals so that the main tank can be a goldie only set-up?

Your fish Peaches needs very clean water and a stable environment. I'm a little concerned about the 'massage' and hope you were very gentle - it is so easy to cause internal rupture when doing this.

"As far as the minnow goes, it was wildcaught and quarintined in a container for several hours, then placed in the main tank."

This does not constitute a quarantine, I'm afraid, sweetie. Quarantining is to isolate a new fish for 3-4 weeks whilst treating with salt for parasites and prazi for flukes and watching for any other signs of illness. Don't ever add a wild caught fish to an existing set-up again as you just have no idea what you are bringing in.

"my sister's tank (12gals, has 3 goldies same size and a betta) was fine,"

This is not going to be fine for long. The fish just don't have enough space and bacterial levels will be very high. She needs to be doing several large water changes per week to keep things manageable. I would seriously consider re-homing some of your collective fish if you cannot get another tank.

You'll find it helpful to read the links under my signature to get a better picture of your fishes needs.

Watch your fish closely for the appearance of any changes to slimecoat, fins, behaviour and breathing.

Keep us posted.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Regular Member

How are things with your sickly fish now, Saiyori? :) Where you able to make some of the recommended changes? I know it is hard when money is tight, and we all just try to do our best with what we have. :)

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  • 1 month later...
  • Regular Member

Thanks for all the help, sorry for not replying for so long, lost my password lol.

Everyone is fine, I treated with maracynII then did several massive water changes, and a weekly 70% or so change. =)

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