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Hi, first post here ;) Long time lurker.

I learned about cycling just in the last year or so. I've kept fish though for much longer (since middle school-age) and never had too much trouble. My last tank was one I was "babysitting" for a year with neon tetra, a few other small tropicals and a very large pleco. In the year I had it, noone died! Yay!

The boyfriend's father keeps Angels. He knew l loved fish so he gave me his old tank and I set it up!

I got two goldies for it. It lasted about a month and a half and suffice to say, through many really stupid things (using Ammo-lock during cycling THEN salting....etc etc) I killed my fish. This is mainly due to my horrid work schedule that kept me from changing the water on the day they died and the day before. I came home and they were dead T.T

Aaanyway, after a few weeks I decided to try again. Took down the tank, scrubbed (only with hot water) all th stuff in the tank since it was covered with brown algea, ew. And headed to the pet store. This is my LFS btw, they are awesome!

A week before I set up the tank again, I went and got a dropper test (I had been using dipsticks for everything but ammonia which had reached over 4ppm!!, another mistake). SO I was ready to track this cycle!

I went to the fish store and picked up Biospira, two small goldfish (1" and 1.5") and an apple snail. I've fallen in love with apple snails now btw <3

The biospira is pretty awesome. I did a 25-50% water change once a week for two-three weeks since none of my chemistry looked too bad (did I mess up here?). Then my Ammonia hit 1ppm and I did a 50% water change, this was this past Sunday. My white goldie was looking a little streaky in the tail which improved a bit with the water change. I also added stress coat when I changed the water. (Used Amquel as a conidtioner btw)

Tested the water last night.

Ammonia = 0-.25

Nitrates = 0

Nitrites = 0

I thought all was well and went to bed.

Got up this morning and found a depressing sight. My white goldie was displaying the same signs my fish that died from bad water showed. Transparent tail is now opaque in most places and looks a little "wet paper towl-y" if that makes any sense. Not ragged though. And he's quite streaky and pink under the scales. My gold/white fish has an opaque spot on his tail also, so I'm worried about him now too. My sanil was floating around for a few days as snails are wont to do, but this morning, he was dead too :( I get up at 4AM to go to work by 6. I had no time this morning to do a water change as I usually do that when I get home in the evening (around 5:30-6PM) but it seems my problems always pop up at night. Grrr. I thought I was doing well!!!

Here's my stats. I only took measurements for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites this morning. If the fish are still kickin' when I get home from work I'll take Ph tests too.

Any help/advice/yelling-at-me you guys could give? What am I doing wrong? I feel as I doing a serious disservice to these poor animals. I LOVE my goldfish. I wanna cry right now :( ANd it really discourages me to get another betta (I just bought a hex 5 gallon tank a week or so ago to start a small planted betta tank, but the goldies are really discouraging me...)

The bio spira really seemed to be working... and I know people that have had great success with it!

Ammonia Level? = 0

Nitrite Level? = 0

Nitrate level? = 0

Brand of test-kit used? Drops. = API

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? = 29gal. A little under a month.

What is the name and size of the filter/s? = Penguin Biowheel 350

How often do you change the water and how much? 25-50% every week depending on chem stats (I check that daily-every other day

How many fish in the tank and their size? = 2 goldies

What kind of water additives or conditioners? = Sunday I changed 50% of the water, conditioned with Amquel and added stress coat.

Any medications added to the tank? = No.

Add any new fish to the tank? = no

What do you feed your fish? = I chang eit up daily. Pro-Gold, Hikari Wheat germ, Spirulina, Boiled Peas and Algea wafers (yum!)

Any unusual findings on the fish such as

"grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? = Bloody streaks. Maybe the white stuff in fungus?

Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating,ect..? = No, perfectly normal. Eating like piggies and swimming all over the place. Nothing unusual here.

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Hi me! :D

I'm sorry that keeping goldfish has been a problem for you. They can attach themselves to our hearts so quickly, and it's hard to see them not well. :heart

I'm confused with your readings from last night to this morning. You had .25ppm of ammonia last night and none this morning - with no nitrites. The pH is very important, also - so please get those posted as soon as possible. :)

By showing ammonia, the bio spira must not have worked - and while a tank is cycling and showing any ammonia and nitrites, it is imperitive that you do DAILY water changes to keep these levels below .25ppm to keep the fish safe. Testing should also be daily, and not every other day.

What type of goldfish do you have? Single tailed fish would be best in 20 gallons each, and fancy/double tailed are fine in 10 gallons each. I don't know what apple snails require, having never owned any myself.

Someone more knowledgeable will be along soon to help you with a total diagnosis as to your fishes problems, but be sure to get that pH posted soon! :exactly

:goodluck

Debbie

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Guest me!
Hi me! :D

I'm sorry that keeping goldfish has been a problem for you. They can attach themselves to our hearts so quickly, and it's hard to see them not well. :heart

I'm confused with your readings from last night to this morning. You had .25ppm of ammonia last night and none this morning - with no nitrites. The pH is very important, also - so please get those posted as soon as possible. :)

By showing ammonia, the bio spira must not have worked - and while a tank is cycling and showing any ammonia and nitrites, it is imperitive that you do DAILY water changes to keep these levels below .25ppm to keep the fish safe. Testing should also be daily, and not every other day.

What type of goldfish do you have? Single tailed fish would be best in 20 gallons each, and fancy/double tailed are fine in 10 gallons each. I don't know what apple snails require, having never owned any myself.

Someone more knowledgeable will be along soon to help you with a total diagnosis as to your fishes problems, but be sure to get that pH posted soon! :exactly

:goodluck

Debbie

The ammonia was less than .25 Could have been 0. those colors confuse me at times.... and lighting in my apartment is rather bad. It looked yellow, but to be on the safe side, went with <.25 I will get on the Ph testing as soon as I get home.

I have two very small fancy-tailed goldies. And I've read Apple snails need 5 gallons each. So figuring 2 very tiny fancies=20 gallons + 1 apple snail = 25 gallons. ( Want to upgrade to a 55+ once the goldies get a little bigger and my apartment is upgraded! haha!)

I felt the bio spira was working myself since it never got above 1ppm. Especially compared to my last round with ammonia in the same setup (sans apple snail with the two fish I killed :( ) with it spiking to 4-5ppm at times.

Edited by me!

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Well, you're not showing any nitrites or nitrates. Showing ammonia and neither of the others indicate that the tank isn't cycled. It's possible that the bio spira worked, but then the cycle crashed. :idont I've never used it, so I can't comment on it, really. But it's only been a few weeks - so be sure to keep an eye on things.

The nitrate test can be tricky. It needs to be shaken for the required time to activate the chemicals - so be sure to shake the 2nd bottle, and the test tube for that amount of time. :) (I would wrap a paper napkin around the cap on the tube, because the cap would always leak on me)

The water is the most important part of fish keeping. We truly care for the water, and the water takes care of the fish. :exactly

Debbie

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Guest me!
Well, you're not showing any nitrites or nitrates. Showing ammonia and neither of the others indicate that the tank isn't cycled. It's possible that the bio spira worked, but then the cycle crashed. :idont I've never used it, so I can't comment on it, really. But it's only been a few weeks - so be sure to keep an eye on things.

The nitrate test can be tricky. It needs to be shaken for the required time to activate the chemicals - so be sure to shake the 2nd bottle, and the test tube for that amount of time. :) (I would wrap a paper napkin around the cap on the tube, because the cap would always leak on me)

The water is the most important part of fish keeping. We truly care for the water, and the water takes care of the fish. :exactly

Debbie

Hmm I'd never thought to shake the bottle as well!! Thanks!

I also think I should start keeping a spreadsheet with my stats on it ;) As they have all fluctuated at least a little bit. :/ But not terribly notably.

Edited by me!

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Hmm I'd never thought to shake the bottle as well!! Thanks!

I also think I should start keeping a spreadsheet with my stats on it ;) As they have all fluctuated at least a little bit. :/ But not terribly notably.

In the directions, I believe the 2nd nitrate bottle needs to be shaken for at LEAST 30 seconds - and the test tube (once both types of drops have been added) needs to be shaken for 1 minute - then it needs to sit for 5 minutes. If I'm wrong on this, someone will correct me. I don't have a fish at the moment, and it's been about 2 months since I've had to test. (can you all believe that it's been nearly two months??? :o )

Keeping notes is an excellent idea!!! I always kept notes, and it came in VERY handy!! Even for later on, when helping other people with their cycles, I could refer back to my notes and say what I thought may have helped or hindered! :D It's a great habit to get into. :exactly

Debbie

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Guest me!

hmm yknow...I've never thought of it before, but do you guys think the white peely stuff he has on his body could be his slime coat peeling away because of something. When my other fish went, they looked like they had been vaccuformed with a wet paper towl and it was flaking off. It looks like what is starting with these guys....

Is this a safe assumption I wonder?

Being at work is driving me crazy. I feel stupid for not having tested for Ph regularly or changing water daily becuase it seemed the biospira was working... :( and all I can think about is these fish. And I havde deadlines to meet today!! Augh!

Edited by me!

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Guest me!

hmm also. Since the Bio Spira was added to the water and right into the filter, do you think it might not have had time to latch onto everything in the tank/filter? Because if it didn't and I did those water changes...I could of gotten rid of most of my BB!!

But then I think I'd have higher ammonia.....I'm so confused! SHould I go get more BioSpira? haha.

Edited by me!

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hmm yknow...I've never thought of it before, but do you guys think the white peely stuff he has on his body could be his slime coat peeling away because of something.

Yes - a low and crashing PH will cause the slime coat to peel off. You must test the PH asap. PH crash kills fish very quickly.

It may be the case that your tap water has very little alkalinity (KH) - in this instance the PH becomes very unstable once the nitrogen cycle begins to turn as there is insufficient alkaline buffer to absorb the nitrates. Perhaps the BioSpira did work but then your cycle crashed: All speculation at this point, but the fact that your tank is a month old and shows no nitrite or nitrate makes me guess that low KH or PH may be the problem Can you test the tap and tank for PH and KH? Post back and let us know.

I would suggest removing a large amount of water and then slowly adding back new dechlorinated water, to raise the PH at a manageable rate. A fish who is in a crashing PH needs it to be raised slowly, so as not to add to the shock.

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hmm yknow...I've never thought of it before, but do you guys think the white peely stuff he has on his body could be his slime coat peeling away because of something.

Yes - a low and crashing PH will cause the slime coat to peel off. You must test the PH asap. PH crash kills fish very quickly.

It may be the case that your tap water has very little alkalinity (KH) - in this instance the PH becomes very unstable once the nitrogen cycle begins to turn as there is insufficient alkaline buffer to absorb the nitrates. Perhaps the BioSpira did work but then your cycle crashed: All speculation at this point, but the fact that your tank is a month old and shows no nitrite or nitrate makes me guess that low KH or PH may be the problem Can you test the tap and tank for PH and KH? Post back and let us know.

I would suggest removing a large amount of water and then slowly adding back new dechlorinated water, to raise the PH at a manageable rate. A fish who is in a crashing PH needs it to be raised slowly, so as not to add to the shock.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I just really hope they're still hanging on when I get home around 6. There's no way of me leaving any sooner :( But I will test as soon as I hit the apartment.

If the Ph is low and I do the shlow water change, HOW slow should I do the water change? SHould I pick up some more bio-spira to boost the cycle?

I just hope they're still around when I get home :(

Edited by me!

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THe boyfriend got home from work. I have another hour before i will be back in town for him to pick me up. I gave him instructions on how to change the tank water and told him to do a 50% water change at least before he comes to get me. Hopefully he will finish this water change before I get back to town (I work out of town obviously haha)

One fish is acting normal but has his slim coat sloughing off. The other is on the bottom clamped and in the same condition. After researching all day at work, I'm almost positive it is a PH crash. I hope the Alkilinity doesn't get so high it kills me BB though!! :(

If he completes the water change before he gets me, we will head straight to the LFS for a Kh test kit and some Buff It Up. (of not that than some baking soda.

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Hey me! I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate luck with your poor little fishes. But if anyone can help you figure it out it will be the people on these boards.

You were wondering about buying more biospira........ well here is my personal experience with BioSpira (so no offense to anyone - this is just what I noticed in my experience with using it)

I wouldn't bother with it. When you put bioSpira in a new tank with very small fish or a very lightly stocked tank (as yours is) it seems that the poor little fishes can't produce enough amonia to feed the Bacteria that we dump in the tank in the form of BioSpira, and it all dies off fairly quickly. As it did in my first tank when the fish were little. Then I had some real issues with nitrates but I don't know if that was the fault of the BioSpira or not. Now when I set up a larger tank and my fish were much larger and my filters were already "alive" (per se) I added BioSpira because the new tank had a new filter and I was getting some amonia spikes due to the increased tank size and my "living" filter was undersized for it, but it helped tremendousely to keep the amonia at a manageable amount and nitrites didn't spike "bad" again until the new filter was well colonized. I would say with 2 small fish in almost 30 gallons of water they aren't producing enough waste to "feed" the BioSpira - so I wouldn't buy it again - At least not until you figure out the ph issues you are possibly experiencing. I assume a ph crash will kill off your bacteria too so it would be just an added expense that you could use for something else right now.

Hope my experience and opinion was helpful....... if anyone else has a different opinion I am willing to listen.... maybe I just had odd experiences with the BioSpira, I don't know.

Well me!, I wish you the best of luck with your fish! I will keepmy fingers crossed and my fish will keep their fins crossed for you and yours.

Edited by zookey

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Hey me! I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate luck with your poor little fishes. But if anyone can help you figure it out it will be the people on these boards.

You were wondering about buying more biospira........ well here is my personal experience with BioSpira (so no offense to anyone - this is just what I noticed in my experience with using it)

I wouldn't bother with it. When you put bioSpira in a new tank with very small fish or a very lightly stocked tank (as yours is) it seems that the poor little fishes can't produce enough amonia to feed the Bacteria that we dump in the tank in the form of BioSpira, and it all dies off fairly quickly. As it did in my first tank when the fish were little. Then I had some real issues with nitrates but I don't know if that was the fault of the BioSpira or not. Now when I set up a larger tank and my fish were much larger and my filters were already "alive" (per se) I added BioSpira because the new tank had a new filter and I was getting some amonia spikes due to the increased tank size and my "living" filter was undersized for it, but it helped tremendousely to keep the amonia at a manageable amount and nitrites didn't spike "bad" again until the new filter was well colonized. I would say with 2 small fish in almost 30 gallons of water they aren't producing enough waste to "feed" the BioSpira - so I wouldn't buy it again - At least not until you figure out the ph issues you are possibly experiencing. I assume a ph crash will kill off your bacteria too so it would be just an added expense that you could use for something else right now.

Hope my experience and opinion was helpful....... if anyone else has a different opinion I am willing to listen.... maybe I just had odd experiences with the BioSpira, I don't know.

Well me!, I wish you the best of luck with your fish! I will keepmy fingers crossed and my fish will keep their fins crossed for you and yours.

I have had a similar experience with "bottled beneficial bacteria". I have used Seachem Stability. In a goldfish tank I don't think that they are enough to start your cycle from scratch, although I did cycle my new saltwater set up in less than a week using Stability. On the other hand, if your tank is "almost" cycled and just needs a little bump to get the bacterial population up to snuff then I think these products can really help. I had a 75 gallon that was still showing high nitrites 12 weeks after set-up. I started using Stability, and less than 72 hours later my nitrites were zero.

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Guest me!

Hmm I've known people that have had great success with the stuff :) But I will take your opinions too! I think I will just wait and see what happens with the tank chemistry before I go buy any more. It's not expensive at all here to dose a 29gal tank. a little over $10 :) I just have to bring a bag with a cold-pak in it to keep it cool for the ride home in case we get stuck in traffic >.>

The water change has already helped out loads! My smaller gold/white fish looks completely normal and the white fish now only has a streaky tail. Go boyfriend! I think we can get through this!! :D

I also went out and got a Kh test kit. Here's my results after the BF's 50% water change.

----------TAP WATER----------

KH = 71.6

PH = 7.6

----------TANK WATER----------

KH = I put over 20 drops into this tube and it never turned blue, just got darker and darker yellow...I don't know what that means! Did I miss a "flash" of blue?

PH = 6.2

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = 0-ish, the yellow was just a smidgen darker than the yellow on the card.

Ammonia = .25-ish. A smidgen to the yellow end of the spectrum

I got this powder called "PROPER pH 7.0" that is supposed to get your tank to the stated pH levels. I have not used it yet as my fish seem to be doing okay, a little streaky but active and not "peeling" anymore. (It's amazing how fast they recover...and go downhill)

I await your sagely advice.

::EDIT::

Went to Goldfish Connection (since they are also sagely haha) and got this info

You can raise your pH very quickly in your goldfish pond or goldfish aquarium without hurting your fish, however, if your pH drops even two points, from 8 to a 6 (pH crash) over a few hours, your goldfish will become VERY stressed and could even die.

So I'm going to use my pH buffer now. Hopefully thing will be looking up (instead of just "not dying") in the morning!

Edited by me!

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I'm pretty new here, but I would say don't use the ph adjuster just yet until someone more knowlegable can help you out. I believe the ph adjuster you have can lower your ph and cause it to crash again.

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Guest me!
I'm pretty new here, but I would say don't use the ph adjuster just yet until someone more knowlegable can help you out. I believe the ph adjuster you have can lower your ph and cause it to crash again.

I'm going to check the water again in about an hour. If it hasn't changed or has gotten worse,I will do another water change. :) I've seen mostly good reviews on it though and my always helpful guy at the LFS (a real aquarium store, not a pet store) said it was a good alternative to Seachem's more expensive version. Although looking at it now....I probably should have gotten 7.5 and not 7.0. Most sites say goldies will do fine in 7.0 but would LOVE 7.2-7.5

It's brought my pH to a 6.6 so far. So at least we're improving? I can still do a pWC too obviously And the fish ar looking muuuuuuuuuch better! That was due to the PWC though methinks haha. But the point is, I don't think this is going to do any harm. I DO think IMHO my tap water's PpH via PWC will be the most elegant solution to my problem though.

Okay signing out for the night! (getting kicked out of the bedroom haha BF wants to sleep)

Edited by me!

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Be sure to keep an eye on the pH if you're using something from the lfs to adjust it. They have been known to just totally crash the pH level.

We all wish you the best of luck. We know how special goldies are!! :exactly

Debbie

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Guest me!

I STILL cannot keep my pH up. Even with the LFS add-in I cannot get it above 6.5.

Frequent water changes have prevented anything bad from happening it seems but it is very annoying nonetheless. I'm I'm afraid I'm going to come home to dead fish babies!

I'm going to do the following this weekend.

Fill a container with water from the tap. Test it out of the tap. Let the water sit for 24 hours then test it again to see if/how the pH changes.

I wonder if it could be the Amquel I'm using the condition the water...It's almost gone and want to buy a new product anyway since that stuff smells terrible and stinks up my tiny apartment! Or should I stick with it?

What should I do if my tap water pH DOES go down?

Also, I don't know if I killed the BioSpira or what, but my Ammonia spiked to around 3.5 last night. Another water change was had. Fish are fine. Grrrr cycling.

Edited by me!

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Guest me!

If needed, can I replace the carbon in my mechanical filter sleeve with crushed coral?

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----------TAP WATER----------

KH = 71.6

PH = 7.6

You do not have enough alkalinity to hold your PH stable. A KH of over 100 is a better target level. Do not use Proper PH 7.0 as you do not want a neutral PH - it is not alkaline enough. Instead I would get Buff it Up from the Goldfish Connection. Coral will work also, but it takes time to kick in and with this very acidic and plunging PH I would not want to hang around.

"I'm going to do the following this weekend.

Fill a container with water from the tap. Test it out of the tap. Let the water sit for 24 hours then test it again to see if/how the pH changes."

Exactly right - I'm sure you will see a drop after even 12 hours.

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I wonder if it could be the Amquel I'm using the condition the water...It's almost gone and want to buy a new product anyway since that stuff smells terrible and stinks up my tiny apartment! Or should I stick with it?

Are you using AmQuel or AmQuel+? AmQuel can make pH fall in water with inadequate KH, but AmQuel+ won't. Unfortunately, all the ammonia-neutralizing products have that same sulfur odor. Prime is the only other good one and it smells just as bad. I would stick with AmQuel+. Cycling will be done with soon and then you will not have to use it anymore and can rely on another dechlor product like NovAqua+.

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Guest me!

I am using Amquel+ :) I'll have to go out and buy at least a small bottle of it soon with all these water changes!

I just submitted an order for Buff It Up from GC. Shouldn't take too long to get here after shipment as I'm in Pittsburgh PA and Waterford is only about 2 hours away from here :D

I've been noticing something on Gesso though. I researched about and but saw nothing on this. And it doesn't seem to be harming him or bothering him, it's just a little...odd looking....

The area of his head where his brain is...is like, swelling. The skin around it is getting stretched and it's rather ugly. I've never seen or read about this. There's no other signs that anything is wrong. There's nothing on the outside of his skin either. This has occrued over the last week and a half or so I think.

Here's some pictures taken with my cel phone (sry about the quality, can't find my "real" camera at the mo')

sickfishiesgf0.jpg

Pixel, the other fish is honky dory.

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Looks like there is something growing there, isn't it? At least it looks that way. Is there some redness coming through, or is that just the light. Usually I would say it looks somewhat like the hump of a ryukin, but it is rather loopsided and just looks a tad too red for me to be comfortable with it. Is there any puss or something coming out? Opening up in any way?

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Guest me!
Looks like there is something growing there, isn't it? At least it looks that way. Is there some redness coming through, or is that just the light. Usually I would say it looks somewhat like the hump of a ryukin, but it is rather loopsided and just looks a tad too red for me to be comfortable with it. Is there any puss or something coming out? Opening up in any way?

There is a bit of pinkness coming through. I thought the hump thing too, but it appeared so suddenly I thought it was something worse. It's not really lopsided, that's the odd part. It look slike his brain is swelling very evenly and it's stretching the skin making it more see-through. I don't think his brain is actually swelling since he's chipper as ever (if not more now that I have the water chemistry under control..got my buff-it-up!), but that's what it looks like.

There's no pus, no odd behaviour. It's completely enclosed by his skin and I can clearly see the line that runs down the top of his body on top of the bulge so it's very even. He just looks swollen really bad. But only on the top of his head...other tan that, he's great. No streaks, happily swimming etc.

I'm stumped.

I'll try to get some more/better images of it when I get home from work. I'll post them when I do. I'm pretty sure it's gotten bigger since that last post of mine.

I certainly hope it's just an ugly hump haha...but it appeared so quickly... :(

Edited by me!

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