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Peanuts

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I posted in the obits forum last week to say that my newest fish Mushu had died, but this week (and it's only Tuesday!) I've lost two more!!

I woke to find my smallest fish, Guy, dead on Monday and I got home from work today to find that Ducky had also died! I did large water changes after each death and whilst at work I also discovered that two of my colleges who keep goldfish have also lost fish over the last week, one has lost 8 Goldies!! (but they all lived in a small 10gal)

I have 3 tanks, all are treated the same and are under the same conditions, however only 2 tanks have seemed to developed problems, I was treating them with Myxzin as Alan (my black moor) and Ducky had developed fin rot and the others had shown signs of it. I'm not 100% sure why it has developed, I know that my area has really bad water conditions for fish keeping but I have always done 50% weekly changes and some times even twice a week.

I don't know if water condition is to blame for the death of my fish or if it was something that I have done or not done, but I really would like some advise on what to do, I so scared that I will kill my remaining fish.

The water from my tap is:

7.6 PH

6d KH

>16d GH

5 NO2

50 NO3

We've also got a rain water but and I've tested this to see if you guys think that it's suitable

6.4 PH

0d KH

<3d GH

0/1 NO2

10 NO3

The readings on the rain water barely registered.

Any advise/information will be very much appreciated.

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Hi Peanuts,

I'm so sorry for the fish that you have lost. :cry1 To lose so many so soon is tragic.

I'm not a fish expert, but from what I DO know, one problem that I see is here:

5 NO2

50 NO3

Nitrite is extremely toxic to fish - especially at numbers that high. They should be as close to zero as possible. Your nitrates are also high. The highest/safest for most goldies is 40ppm - but best below 20. You don't have an ammonia reading - do you have a test for that?

What size is your tank? How long has it been running? How many fish are/were in there?

I wouldn't recommend the rainwater as a replacement, as the pH is so low, with no KH and low GH.

Perhaps someone can move this to Diagnosis and Discussion or 911 to get you more help. :)

Again - I'm sorry for the loss of your dear friends. :hug

Debbie

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Debbie that was his TAP water!! Ugh that is nasty stuff to deal with.

Rainwater, add baking soda will bring up both the KH and the PH. Epsom salt to bring up GH, though that isn't really that critical.

A pound of baking soda will increase the KH of 2000 gallons by 35.5 ppm. I know that is pond measurements, but gives a starting place maybe?? Hopefully someone has the formula that is more specific for tanks

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If you haven't done anything different, and if your fish were not sick to begin with, then I suspect there might be something going on with the city water. You can call them and ask if they have been using more chemicals, or back flushing their systems. Heavy rain or snow fall causes them to use more chemicals also. The water may be tainted somehow and you need to figure out if you need to use a different dechlor or more dechlor. I've had the same thing happen here in Virginia and had to switch dechlor products. Now I use Prime and don't have any issues.

I'm sorry for your losses.

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Debbie that was his TAP water!!

:yikes Oh Peanuts, I'm so sorry that I mis-read that! That's dreadful!!

You don't want to raise the pH too quickly with goldies in the tank. I found this post by Pixiefish for pH/KH.

Also remember that you'll need crushed coral or something to maintain the pH - as I don't think baking soda is very stable.

I'm sorry that I was confused... Best of luck to you with your fish!

Debbie

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Peanuts, I do remember you recently introduced a new fish and I think risked not quaranting? Am I right? Not scolding or anything, we have all done it but the new fish may have bought in many different things including flukes and /or other parasites and since that new fish then died I would suspect parasites..finrot is a symptom of flukes...how about running a 0.3% salt and prazi (for the flukes) regime for one month to clear the system of parasites and see if this helps.

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Peanuts, I do remember you recently introduced a new fish and I think risked not quaranting? Am I right? Not scolding or anything, we have all done it but the new fish may have bought in many different things including flukes and /or other parasites and since that new fish then died I would suspect parasites..finrot is a symptom of flukes...how about running a 0.3% salt and prazi (for the flukes) regime for one month to clear the system of parasites and see if this helps.

Hi Trinket, your right I didn't QT Mushu as long as I normally do. The store that i bought him from is generally a good store (I've had all my fish from there and never a problem). So I stupidly added him after only a few days in QT as I took pity on him. I'm really angry at myself as I usually QT for at least 4weeks, and as you can imagin I really do regret this now.

I also agree that Mushu may have brought something into the tank that may have weakend his tank mates immunities, however, the guys in my 28gal also have finrot and one fish is stitting just below the waterline. These guys haven't been in the same tank as the others, and I have seperate equipment (sypons etc) for all my tanks. But the filters on Mushu's tank and the 28gal are both relativly new filters, just a few months old, hence no ammonia test as I've run out.

I will treat for flukes, but what is prazi? and is it available in the UK?

I have the following meds on hand:

PROTOZIN

MYXAZIN

MELAFIX &

PRIMAFIX.

And lots of salt. How much would I have to add to a 28 gal for a 0.3% solution.

Edited by Peanuts
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I should start with salting in 3 increments to 0.3% Peanuts as I'm not sure of the ingredients of those UK meds you have there offhand(claireuk or Pix may know...).

Although the tap water sounds crazy, it does seem likely that Mushu brought something nasty in and salt at least will treat some of that while we plan a path out of your problems.

How is the water from the tap today? Was it a one off thing? Do the people at work live in your street as water can vary from district to district, besides, many first time fish keepers lose their fish to a lack of understanding of the nitrogen cycle so unless the other workers have been keeping fish for years this may be a "red herring" (so to speak :blink: ).

Also you say only 2 tanks of 3 were affected, surely you use the same water on all tanks?

Rain water is acidic and seems to have zero kH which is tricky with goldies need for stable pH. Your water was fine in the past, the water readings containing nitrites and high nitrates may be a nasty, passing glitch. Let's hope so.

Let me go track claireUKs posting a link about getting prazi in the UK. I believe you can get it legally now. I'll post back when I find it.

EDIT: Check this info Claire found. Great news if you can now order prazi from here.

Edited by Trinket
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Hi Trinket, Thank you for the link.

I'm going to my LFS today so if they don't have it i'll order it from the link.

I lost another fish last night, this time it was my large blackmoor that was my first ever Goldie.

Yes I do have three tanks, my Pearlscale, Ryu and Ranchu live in a 40gal and they don't seem to be effected but the last time I changed there water was 11/03/08. The other two tanks I changed last Friday night.

I now only have 1 fish left from the 2 other tanks and i've salted the tank and will get the readings on the tap water for you soon.

I'll also pick up an Ammonia tester and on another thread I was recomended getting some AmQuel+ if it's avaiable in the UK. Would you also recomend this or something similar to be used on the water as I store it prior to use?

As for my friends who have lost fish they both only live a few esates away from me, so I would assume that we use the same water. But I do fully understand your comment on why they may have lost fish. I don't think they have tanks which are larger then 10gals and they are very overstock.

Edited by Peanuts
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Oh no :cry1 not your first baby! I am so, so sorry, this is terrible and so fast :(

Did you check the tap/tank water again for amm/nitrites yet- if its still the same- you cannot use the tap water - I think bottle water would be your best bet for a temporary salve with some baking soda added as you'll need to do a water change. Meanwhile don't feed if you have any bad water results in the remaining fishes tank.

And the prazi and salt to cover the rest. What were the symptoms before your fish died Peanuts? Bottom sitting? Gasping? Tail fin rot? That's all? No body marks, flashing?

I'm so glad your 40 gallon is not affected. That's something..

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Thank you for your kind comments Trinket.

Alan was bottom sitting in the morning and I know that he didn?t eaten much for a few days, Alan also had Tail rot, as does/did Milton (the only goldie I have left out of these 2 tanks), I was also treating the 2 tanks with Myxazin.

My tap water now reads as follows, 7.2PH, 6dKH, >16dGH, 0 NO2, 10/25 NO3 (which is roughly as normal as ever in my area) Ammonia for the tap water 0 or at least very very low that I can't read it. This all looks good for my water; so I've re-filled my storage water butt so I'll be doing a water change tomorrow.

I wasn't able to find any CedaPraz in my LFS but they recommended Sterazin by waterlife (the same makers as Myxazin and Protozin) Do you think this would be OK to use? I?ve started to add the salt to Milton?s water and she is currently only had 28 tsp added to her 28gal tank. Is that correct for the salting dose?

Thank you for all your kind words and advise. :heart

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What color is Myxazin Peanuts? Is it yellow? Or blue? Green?

I am trying to get info on your UK products but all the names are different from what we use here (US med names) and it's hard to know exactly what is in Myxazin.. I think it may be a dye type disinfectant bactericide. Apparantly people have written to the Waterlife company and asked for ingredients to be turned away with comments like "this is a business and we guard the secrets of our medication ingredients with our life for fear of plagarism" Quite different from the freedom of knowledge approach taken in the US & Japan :(

I suspect Myxazin ia a dye. These kind of meds rob the water of a quite considerable amount of oxygen and the pH of the water affects toxigicity.

So, you need to run EXTRA air bubbles and make sure your pH is the norm (around 7). If it is lower you need less meds in the water than they say.

Sterazin- again the secretive Waterlife - is a parasitcide. Means little. I presume it too is a disinfectant type, possibly formalin based drug. Yes it will work on flukes but is way more harsh than prazi. All these disinfectant type meds have a very fine border between what is lethal to the fish and what will rid the tank of pathogens and need dosing precision and great care when using.

Edited by Trinket
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Hi Trinket, Myxazin is a deep green colour and it tints the water this colour too. I followed the instructions on the bottle and only dosed the tanks to the recommendations. The Myxazin that I have is the double strength one.

I've been keeping an extra close watch on Milton and I haven't seen any flashing or darting behaviour, so is it very likely that she will have gotten flukes?

However she doesn't seem to be very happy, the tips of her fins are ragged and red and I think she is also looking a little on the skinny side. She isn't eating her pellets today (she did yesterday) but she has eaten a pea. I don't know if I really should have fed her peas but I was feeding them to my other fish and I thought that if she ate a pea then it would be better then nothing. Milton attacked the pea and gobbled it up, which I took as a good sign.

Her tank water is now at 20C, I've salted and I?m going to leave her like this for a little while. I don't think I'll get the Sterazin, I think that she might have had enough chemicals added to her water over the last few days. Do you think this is a wise move?

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I very much suspect it is malachite green based. It's a diarylmethane dye. Does it say in directions to dim lights when using it?

It's plenty. I wouldn't use the sterazin with that.

I think you should feed her whatever she'll eat. Just like a human invalid, any food she fancies is better than none to build her strength up.

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Thank you.

No the directions don't say anything other then how to dose the tank and it should be added everyday for a total of 6 days. None of my tanks have lights anyway.

Milton seems to be picking up a little, she eat a few pellets yesterday and she eaten again this morning. I've not seen any poop though.

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Just to let you know the Myxazin contains formaldehyde, Malchite Green and Acraflavine. Cedapraz can, as far as I know, only be ordered from the company itself.

With the Myxazin you need to keep the tank as dark as possible and will need to up the oxygen as the med will deplete the oxygen levels very quickly. I choose to add the Myxazin last thing at night before I went to bed so as it had all night in total darkness to work, but I have good oxygen exchange in my tank.

Hope this helps some.

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Yes I expected something like that. The two big ones plus acriflavine...its a very powerul medication and they should tell you on the package that it must be dosed in very dim/low light/covered tank and DO must be increased as claire says. The other caution is to keep the package in the dark and never in the fridge.

If Milton is eating again, that is always a good sign :exactly

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Hi Claire, Trinket.

I've double checked the bottle that I have but it doesn't mention that it should be used in dim lighting. Thank you for letting me know.

Milton seems to be picking up nicely now, but she still has very ragged fins. She was treated for just over a week with myxzin so do you think the finrot had been killed off?

I was thinking about adding melafix to the tank to help promote fin growth. Is this a good idea or not?

In a side note, i've lost another fish last night it was one of my pond fish, Pike. But i don't think her death is related to the others.

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It's nice to hear a little good news. If he got through the treatment safely and without issues, i think hes tough and will pull through.

You can use the melafix for finrot. It seems to work on some kinds and not others. Otherwise, good water and plenty of time. Fins can take quite some time to heal up. Let us know how things go :)

PS I am sorry about your pond fish, though. When it rains it pours :cry1

Edited by Trinket
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Hello again.

I first started to treat the tank with melafix when i first thought my fish had finrot. At that time it didn't seem to work so i opted to use myxzin. But i think i read somewhere that melafix is also able to promote fin growth

Edited by Peanuts
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Yes the Melafix will help with the damaged fins as it will promote regrowth. I had a split fin problem a couple of weeks ago and also used Myxazin, I found that it did help and the fins are starting to heal good.

Glad your fish is getting better, mine also did ok throughout the Myxazin treatment. Sorry you lost Pike the pond fish.

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Thanks again Claire.

I'm happy to say that Milton is loads better now, she's active, inquisative and is lokking better everyday. Her fins are starting to look less tatty as well.

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Hi, glad things are improving for you. My fishes fins (Mysti the big orange oranda in my sig) are so much better now, no more splitting. She has just decided to have SBD problems though, I think related to some new food!! Fish, they keep you on your toes!

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My big pearl, Molly, has SBD but it was always worse after I fed her one type of pellet food. It's funny how sensitive they can be to some things.

Your fish are gorgeous BTW!

Edited by Peanuts
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