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32Bit_Fish

Live Food List For Gold Fish

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I was wondering if anyone here feeding their gold fish with live food such as live black worm, brine shrimp etc???

Are they safe to feed to the fish? Live food always carry bacterias, not sure gold fish can handle them or not.

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You are definitely taking a risk when you feed live foods. Remember goldies cannot vomit and they aren't the hardiest animals by any stretch of the imagination. It's your call on the live food. Weight the pros and cons and choose wisely. I personally will not feed my goldies live foods as the risk IMO is just not worth it.

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Live red/earth worms, brine shrimp, meal worms, vinigure eels, micro worms, and some (land) insects are all safe to feed your fish.

It's the live foods that live in water like blood worms, tubifex worms, daphia, other fish, ect. that you have to worry about.

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Live red/earth worms, brine shrimp, meal worms, vinigure eels, micro worms, and some (land) insects are all safe to feed your fish.

It's the live foods that live in water like blood worms, tubifex worms, daphia, other fish, ect. that you have to worry about.

There is no guarantee that any of these live foods are safe. They can easily harbor bacterias and parasites. You also listed the brine shrimp in the former category but they live in water.

You are definitely right about tubifex. Tubifex are disgusting creatures that live and thrive in disgusting places. They thrive in environments that are so disgusting that almost no other creatures could survive in it. Under no circumstances should anyone feed their goldies tubifex, live or freeze dried.

Here is a quote by Hess from the book Fancy Goldfish by Doc Johnson & Rick Hess:

"In my opinion, feeding live foods is an invitation to trouble. There is too much of a chance that you will introduce bacteria or other disease-carrying organisms."

This is a very controversial topic as some hobbyist swear by live foods. In the end, it's your call.

Caveat emptor.

Edited by Jack of Hearts

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Live food is what fish eat in nature and is much better than most dried foods. I've fed live red/earth worms, meal worms, micro worms, and some (land) insects with no problems. Sure they might harbor bacterias and parasites but these live foods and their bacterias and parasites don't live in water and don't effect fish.

Vinigare eels in vinigare which is too acidic.

Brine Shimp is the best food that can be fed to fry. There is nothing better. Brine shrimp live in salt water. Any bacterias and parasites that live in salt water can't live in fresh water.

I've fed all these foods without any problems and my fish never get sick.

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Live food is what fish eat in nature and is much better than most dried foods. I've fed live red/earth worms, meal worms, micro worms, and some (land) insects with no problems.

Yes live foods is what fish eat in nature, and in some instances die from it, but that's really not relevant to whether live food is safe or not.

I also don't see where live foods is much better than the stuff that's available from say Hikari or GFC. My oranda has made monstrous gains from eating ProGolds for instance.

Sure they might harbor bacterias and parasites but these live foods and their bacterias and parasites don't live in water and don't effect fish.

Can you explain that one to me??

Brine Shimp is the best food that can be fed to fry. There is nothing better. Brine shrimp live in salt water. Any bacterias and parasites that live in salt water can't live in fresh water.

Brine shrimp is most definitely one of the best food for frys. However with frys, in most cases it is the survival of the fittest and the development and growth of a seleted few supercedes the total survival including the weak. With one of our pets, survival is most certainly priority #1.

There are many bacterias that can survive in varying degree of salinity all the way down to 0. Unless you are talking about those extreme salinity bacterias that live in extreme salinity conditions(upwards of 20X the salinity of the Ocean) like the Dead Sea.

I've fed all these foods without any problems and my fish never get sick.

I don't doubt you. Like I said, this is a controversial topic and the two sides will almost never agree on it. However there is no doubt that you are increasing the risk by feeding your goldies live foods. Anyone that doubts that is living in lala land. Whether the risk outweights the gains is up to the individual owner to decide. You gave your 2 cents and I gave mine. Like I said, in the end, it's caveat emptor. ;)

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I do occasionally feed live food, but only if I've raised it myself to mitigate the risk of the goldies getting sick. There are too many risks for me in feeding things that are alive that I am not sure were raised in fairly safe conditions. I've got quite a herd of cherry shrimp I've been raising that get culled into the goldfish tank, for example, but I know where they're living and how healthy they are and their environment is.

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Exactly! Baby brine shrimp - the ones you hatch yourself - the napoli - are tiny weeny little wiggly orange dots - just perfect size for newly hatched fry up to a certain size fish. Having live baby brine shrimp for the fry to catch and eat encourages them to swim and move and develop. It also gets them looking for food in all the areas of the tank - up , down, and inbetween. I hatch my own. It is easy.

After the fry get bigger, they need bigger food. At that time, that food which WAS live is excellent, but since I cannot raise enough daphnia, etc. for my fry, I buy it frozen and guaranteed disease/parasite free - from a reputable feed dealer. As the fry grow, they easily can chow down on brine shrimp - the larger versions of the BBbrine shrimp napoli. You can easily grow your own microworm culture - but I would lose my husband were I to try that stinky mess!

Adult goldfish do not seem capable of finding and eating anything smaller than a pellet - they cannot see it or find it well. It is a waste to feed them much smaller than such. I do put many types of food which WAS live into gel food - making the cubes large enough for the fish to find. Bloodworms (frozen), Brineshrimp (frozen) and such make great foods.

I would never feed my fish anything that I did not hatch myself or that I did not purchase from a reputable source. There is just too much that can come in/on it. I do not want to have to deal with nasty things that I can avoid by simple food choices.

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Once my fry get too big to feed baby brine shrimp I give them chopped red worms. The adults can suck down the whole worm.

Micro worms only stink when the culture gets old. I prefer newly hatched brine shrimp over micro worms & vinegar eels because their more nutrious, and easier to seprate from the culture.

I also don't see where live foods is much better than the stuff that's available from say Hikari or GFC. My oranda has made monstrous gains from eating ProGolds for instance.

I used to buy Hikari and it's better than most the other brands. But I would say live food is better than Hikari. I would (and do) use Omega One it's the best dry fish food I've seen sold at pet stores. I haven't used Progold yet but I've heard nothing but good about it. If you don't want to feed live foods. Feeding Omega One, Progold or making your own would be a good.

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Just FYI, all the gold fish keepers feeding their gold fish with live baby brine shrimp as well as live black worms in China.

I speak on fact because I was there for almost 20 years. Imagine those Chinese Goldfish farm feed their goldfish with dry food, that wouldn't be cost effective.

That's why it makes me wonder why people here are hesitate to feed live food to their gold fish. :)

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Just FYI, all the gold fish keepers feeding their gold fish with live baby brine shrimp as well as live black worms in China.

I speak on fact because I was there for almost 20 years. Imagine those Chinese Goldfish farm feed their goldfish with dry food, that wouldn't be cost effective.

That's why it makes me wonder why people here are hesitate to feed live food to their gold fish. :)

You answered you own question right here in your own post.

To the Chinese GF farmers the only thing that matters is the bottom line; not the individual lives of each goldfish. They are in business to maximize their profits and nothing else.

To the members here at Kokos the happiness, the health, and longevity of our pets is the main concern. There are definite pros and cons to feeding our pets live foods. As far as the risks are concerened the live foods are always going to be riskier than dry foods. This point is irrefutable.

Weighting the pros and cons and deciding what to do is the individual owners choice. I have decided not to feed them live foods anymore. Some like Daryl only feed live foods that they cultivated on their own(thus reducing the risk by a significant amount).

I don't think there really is a right answer here but to compare the needs of a goldfish farmer and an individual pet owner doesn't make any sense.

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Just FYI, all the gold fish keepers feeding their gold fish with live baby brine shrimp as well as live black worms in China.

Imagine those Chinese Goldfish farm feed their goldfish with dry food, that wouldn't be cost effective.

You answered you own question right here in your own post.

To the Chinese GF farmers the only thing that matters is the bottom line; not the individual lives of each goldfish. They are in business to maximize their profits and nothing else.

Brine shrimp eggs are more expensive than dry food. Then when you add the cost of the salt and labor of hatching the cost goes up even more.

If all the Chinese GF farmers cared about was their bottem line they would be buying cheap goldfish food by the ton. Not spending a ton on brine shrimp eggs.

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Brine shrimp eggs are more expensive than dry food. Then when you add the cost of the salt and labor of hatching the cost goes up even more.

If all the Chinese GF farmers cared about was their bottem line they would be buying cheap goldfish food by the ton. Not spending a ton on brine shrimp eggs.

If one is cultivating it by the tubloads, which they are, brines have to be super inexpensive. The labor in China is next to nothing. China is also a huge country(bigger than the US) and land is ultra plentiful despite what you hear to the contrary.

Trust me the bottom line is their main objective and nothing else.

Once again, my point here is that comparing the needs of a Chineses GF farmer to an individual pet owner who loves(fair assumption since they post on a GF message board) their wet pets does not make much sense.

I never said that feeding brines have no upside. They certainly have their benefits. They also have their risks. I have weighted the benifits and the risks and my decision is that I will not feed my goldies live foods anymore.

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It's true that maximize profit is their main priority, but without producing beautiful healthy gold fish, the word "profit" is no where to be found in their dictionary cuz no one is buying any fish from them.

My point is feeding gold fish live food instead of dry food doesn't mean you are careless or lack of a loving heart for your fish (live food doesn't necessary mean bacteria/sick fish). I believe all the beautiful gold fish in our tanks were came from China, correct? so they are must doing something right.

My feeling is we can make our gold fish better looking and happier by feeding the live food instead of worry about overfeeding/bladder problem with the dry food.

Edited by 32Bit_Fish

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I raised a lot of fry and the survival and grow rate of fry is much, much higher with brine shrimp than it is with any other foods. I will no longer feed my fry anything but newly hatched brine shrimp.

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I raised a lot of fry and the survival and grow rate of fry is much, much higher with brine shrimp than it is with any other foods. I will no longer feed my fry anything but newly hatched brine shrimp.

This is getting to be a circular argument. You already mentioned this before and I already agreed with you that brines are probably one of the best foods for a fry. I also countered you by stating that the needs of frys are different from a grown goldfish. Also as I stated previously in the case of the frys, the survival and the growth of the strong ones are the priority and the death of the weak ones are expected. In the case of an individual pet, premature death is not an option.

The creator of this thread asked whether live foods were safe. I stated that there always is a risk with live foods and that one should carefully weight the pros and cons before making a decision.

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It's true that maximize profit is their main priority, but without producing beautiful healthy gold fish, the word "profit" is no where to be found in their dictionary cuz no one is buying any fish from them.

Thus the bottom line being the main concern.

My point is feeding gold fish live food instead of dry food doesn't mean you are careless or lack of a loving heart for your fish (live food doesn't necessary mean bacteria/sick fish). I believe all the beautiful gold fish in our tanks were came from China, correct? so they are must doing something right.

I never said anything of that sort. I stated that there is no right or wrong and the final decision is up to the owner.

And no they are not all from China.

My feeling is we can make our gold fish better looking and happier by feeding the live food instead of worry about overfeeding/bladder problem with the dry food.

And like I said, that is your decision and I respect it. You have weighted the pros and cons and you have decided to go live. :)

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Yeah, we had enough discussions on this topic. It was a good discussion too. :D

Yeah all good stuff. :) When it comes to live food debate however, the two parties usually almost never agree. :D

The flame seems to be dying down so I'm going to pour a little gasoline in there.... :rofl

In the book "Fancy Goldfish", Rick Hess states that most importers and others who handle large numbers of fish don't use live foods because "they consistently had disease problems when they fed live foods"

So it sounds like the farmers use live brines for the frys because obviously they feel that any risk involved with live foods are more than countered with thriving growth of the frys which require a high protein diet.

However by the time the fishes reach the importers and the distributors in the US, the goldies have grown and their protein demands are far less. These guys obviously feel that any supposed gains from live food at this stage is not worth the risk.

Your thoughts? :)

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I guess I have to agree with you at this point and your view makes sense too. Even though I lived in China for almost 20 years, but I was a little kid when I had a fish tank.

I've seen the vendor brings out one of those huge bath tubs that full of live black worms and live baby brine shrimps in the pet market. They are selling them so cheap (like a quarter pound for $1 in Chinese money). Everyone was feeding their fish with live food including myself.

Dry fish food in packs were considered deluxe and expensive. At the same time, everyone was telling me live food is the best food for the fish. I was around 12 yrs old at that time, had a fish bowl with an air stone in it (no any sort of filtration). The fish was dying left and right. Now I know what did I do wrong.

That's why I am always under impression that feeding live food is the best thing to do to the fish. Now I understand, there are always health issue with the live food.

Have you heard of Carifornia Live Food farm? They are well known for breeding healthy black worms. I tried them once before on my discus. Fish love them so much that they won't accept any other type of food. So I had to stop feeding them worms.

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I lived in China for almost 20 years

Really? I have an totally off topic question for you. The "ng" at the end of a significant amount of Chinese words, how is it pronounced? Is the "g" silent, almost silent, pronounced at face value as "ng", or something else?

For example, the name "Wang", is it pronouned Wan, Wang, or something else in China? In the US, it would be pronounced Wang but when the Japanese pronounce it they say Wan with a silent "g". I once dated a Chinese girl who's last name was Zhang. It always sounded like she was pronouncing it Jyan with a silent "g".

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I lived in China for almost 20 years

Really? I have an totally off topic question for you. The "ng" at the end of a significant amount of Chinese words, how is it pronounced? Is the "g" silent, almost silent, pronounced at face value as "ng", or something else?

For example, the name "Wang", is it pronouned Wan, Wang, or something else in China? In the US, it would be pronounced Wang but when the Japanese pronounce it they say Wan with a silent "g". I once dated a Chinese girl who's last name was Zhang. It always sounded like she was pronouncing it Jyan with a silent "g".

This is a difficult question... :krazy: Most Chinese names you've heard or seen written in "English" actually they are not English. They are "Pinyin". Pinyin uses the Latin alphabet to represent sounds in Standard Mandarin. The way these letters represent sounds in standard Mandarin do not correspond to any other one particular language that uses the Roman alphabet.

The correct way of pronounce a Chinese people's name would depend on what region the individual came from in China. There are so many different dialects in China. Therefore, the spelling and pronounciation would be different even though they are all look similar in some ways. If your girl speak Mandarin as her native language, then I would pronoune her name with a silient "g".

Those people who makes passport for people in China donn't know what they doing. They translated my name so wrong and I dont even want to mention my name. The sad part is I didn't realize it until I started to learn to speak English. :unsure:

Edited by 32Bit_Fish

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I've seen the vendor brings out one of those huge bath tubs that full of live black worms and live baby brine shrimps in the pet market. They are selling them so cheap (like a quarter pound for $1 in Chinese money).

I would tend to believe that in China(especially when you were a kid), it would probably be cheaper for the gf farmers to feed live foods that they cultivated themselves, than to feed dry foods. In the US, the opposite is probably true. It is cheaper to feed them dry foods. Unless we are talking about high quality foods like Progold.

That's why I am always under impression that feeding live food is the best thing to do to the fish. Now I understand, there are always health issue with the live food.

The fishes certainly seems to enjoy live foods more. As for the quality, other than for frys as Nick mentioned, the delta between live foods and upscale foods like Progold are probably very little if any. The risk is definitely higher with live foods. How much more? 100%? 50%? 25%? 10%? 5%? I have no idea. Personally for me, even a risk of 1% more is not acceptable. They are my pets. They are not show fishes that I need to be concerned about maximum growth or beauty. They are just my pets and their well being and livelihood are the most important.

Have you heard of Carifornia Live Food farm? They are well known for breeding healthy black worms. I tried them once before on my discus. Fish love them so much that they won't accept any other type of food. So I had to stop feeding them worms.

I never heard of them but your story about black worms, as well as this whole discussion about live foods with you and Nick remind me of my mother's cat. My mother's cat lived like a king. She fed him the finest sashimi and raw filet mignons. :rolleyes: He was so spoiled that he could tell the difference between the best cut of meats and the lesser quality ones. He loved sashimi but he absolutely loved the raw filet mignon. Needless to say, he completely scoffed at dry cat foods. :D I would think that feeding cats raw meats and raw fish presented some risks, as careful as she was. To my mother, the absolute joy that her cat used to get from these raw foods was well worth the slight increase in the health risk. The cat ended up living for 15 years and probably enjoyed every minute of it. He was an outdoor cat so 15 years would be considered a decent age. :)

Edited by Jack of Hearts

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