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angelnikki

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ph level: 7.6

14 gallon aquarium

11 of the fish are new (a week ago)

stress coat added the 1st day of integration

ALL of the fish in my tank have small white spots on their fins. They were not there yesterday, and i believe they are from ich.

I checked the ph of the water and it is about 7.5 right now. The water temp stays about 74. I'm sorry i do not have detailed numbers yet, i do not have a masterkit which i am getting tomorrow. I just wanted to know if you guys share my assumption, and if so the best medication to give them.

I would also add pictures, but i can't get a clear enough pic to show.

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:welcome

Firstly i am sorry your fish are not doing well. A few questions to ask.

What type of fish do you have?

How long has your tank been set up?

What filter are you using?

Ok a few problems with your set up. If you are keeping goldfish which you most likely are posting in the goldfish disease and diagnosis section your tank is too small. The general stocking rule is 10gals or more for fancy tailed goldies and 20gals or more for single tailed goldies. You need 10x filtration in a goldie tank which means you need your tank volume filtered 10x an hour.

It does sound like ich the best method of treating ich is using salt read this link about salting a tank. It is also good to increase temperature to speed up the ichs life cycle. Without the readings on your other params it is not advised to begin treating. For the mean time i would do 50-75% water change. A picture would help to tell you whether it is definitely ich or not.

clicky clicky

Edited by dan in aus
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11 new fish????? And how many other older fish in there? I am very sorry to break this to you but your tank is only big enough for one fish.

Your fish will not heal and will probably die very soon if you cannot re-locate them immediately. Do you have any buckets/rubber-maids that you can use to separate the fish. Even salting (the gentlest treatment for ich) these fish will not help in these conditions.

Please have a look around and see if you can find some plastic clean containers to re-house the fish with matching temp water and then post back so we can talk you through how to use salt as a treatment.

Welcome to the site.

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running 1 week

14 gallon tank

1 pleco

2 adult gf

1 baby fantail

8 small tropical fish

filter for 20 gallon tank

did 25% water change today

ammonia level 1 (using ammonia clear to lower)

nitrite level: 0 ppm

nitrate level: 5 ppm

Ph level: 8 using ph minus to fix

ph level tap: 7.4

declorinator and stress coat added to tap water

tetramin tropical fish flakes/goldfish flakes

white spots all over fins, flashing, biggest goldfish has bloody streaks on fins

first off, i know i am not supposed to keep tropical fish with goldfish, but that isn't the discussion here today. and yes, i have been told that there are too many fish here. i cannot get another tank yet. this is a temporary situation. Please, I need help diagnosing correctly and fixing their problems. I have some Mardel Coppersafe for ich, but i went and got that before i noticed the bloody streaks on the gf. can someone please get back to me soon. i have done everything i can up to adding the medication they need. is this the best thing to use? the guy at the lfs told me to get it.

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The easiest way to treat Ick is with salt and heat, the bloody streaks in the fins is probably fin rot, I should know, my black moor suffers from it on a yearly basis for some reason :rolleyes: . If you could get a picture of that posted here it would help.

Your going to have to do a waterchange every day with that many fish in the tank. Possibly twice a day and at least 50% or nothing we say here is going to help much as your tank is not cycled yet.

You can get aquarium salt at most local pet stores or at Wally World for a couple of dollars. Follow the instructions on the package to salt your tank to .1%. If your not sure of the dosage just ask us here. You will have to vacume the gravel every day while doing the water change. This will get the ick out of the gravel. Every waterchange you will have to add back the salt that was lost. You will need to gradually increase the salt to .3% over the course of 3 days, thats .1% a day. Just take a glass, get some of the water in the aquarium, add the salt, stir untill dissolved and pour back in. Do not add the salt directly to the tank as it will burn your fish if they try to eat it.

Do you have a heater for your tank? You may want to consider getting one if not, or you can just keep the light on all the time. That will cause alge to grow but thats better than Ick.

I would not reccomend any medications as you will have to do a lot of waterchanges with all of those fish in there. Ive never used medications on ick, fin rot I would Reccomend Melafix if the salt dosent work.

Here are the links to the help areas on Kokos for Ick and Fin Rot.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Ich.html

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Finrot.html

I hope that helped.

*Edit to add Links*

Edited by Kasper
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it helps a lot, thank you. i do have a couple of questions though. can i use regular table salt? if so maybe half a teaspoon?

Also I have a 2 gallon aquarium i was thinking of setting up today, to move out the 2 tiger barbs. they have been really agressive toward the other fish in the tank, especially the ones with longer fins.

can that cause the blood streaks? the lfs guy said s. hemorraging? that is fungal, right? I don't know. I just don't want to do anything too drastic to these guys.

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You can not use table salt, it has Iodine in it that will kill the fish. Aquarium salt is the best way to go because you know its safe for the fish. You can decent size container of it at Wally World for minimum money, its not much more then buying normal table salt and you know its safe.

Bloody fins can also be caused by something tearing at them. I would move the tigerbarbs ASAP but remember you will have to treat that tank for Ick too. The Hemmoraging is just reffering to the blood from a broken vein, its not fungal, but can become infected if not treated.

Salt will heal up any damaged fins that the tigerbarbs have caused, or if its fin rot it will help that too.

Don't worry, salt is not to drastic if in the right dosage. Its when you start mixing medications that it can get really messy.

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Can i just say only start one topic you have a topic in 911 and here about the same one i think it easier as you have more replies to stick to the one in 911 a mod may merge the two threads. It makes it very confusing for members trying to reply.

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Ok a few problems with your set up. If you are keeping goldfish which you most likely are posting in the goldfish disease and diagnosis section your tank is too small. The general stocking rule is 10gals or more for fancy tailed goldies and 20gals or more for single tailed goldies. You need 10x filtration in a goldie tank which means you need your tank volume filtered 10x an hour.

It does sound like ich the best method of treating ich is using salt read this link about salting a tank. It is also good to increase temperature to speed up the ichs life cycle. Without the readings on your other params it is not advised to begin treating. For the mean time i would do 50-75% water change. A picture would help to tell you whether it is definitely ich or not.

here is a link on salting your tank http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/...showtopic=60876

That was copied from the other thread, now we have actual readings i can tell you

Products that are designed to remove ammonia do not work the only way is to do a water change a 50% water change will reduce the ammonia by half So do a 75-100% water change you want the ammonia as close to 0. The reason you have ammonia is that you are overstocked to the max. You have 3 fancy tailed goldfish which require 10galseach so your tank is only sufficient for one fancy. What type of pleco is it? If it is what is referred to as a "common" pleco then you need a 55gal tank or up they can reach 15inches long some species can get 2ft long. What type of tropical fish are they? They have different needs to goldfish, temperature and food wise.

Stop using the ph down buffer these can cause you to have a ph crash a ph of 8 is good for goldfish but it is too high for most tropical fish. Usually if you are altering ph use chemical free methods such as driftwood to buffer down and coral to buffer up.

Even something as simple as salting will cause your fish great shock due to the fact that your tank is overstocked and you have ammonia readings in your tank. The stress from salting and your params could kill your fish.

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sorry about that, i posted in the 911 forum last night and only got 2 replies as the situation had changed a little and i got water parems, i went ahead and posted a new one.

thanks for the salt advice, i have never really been told to use salt in a freshwater aquarium before, and being that i haven't had an aquarium for so long, there is a lot i don't know.

I'll be running to wally world then. thank you again.

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okay i just read the second post. I think it is a lyre tail pleco. i didn't want to get one because they get so big but the lfs said i could bring him in when he got larger and they would give me another baby. they have really big tanks there and never get in large plecos, so i thought this would be okay.

there are 2 tiger barbs, 2 glofish (lfs owner said they get less than an inch long), 3 adult zebra danios (long fins are about an inch and a half at the most each) 1 adult black tetra

the comet Cloud i found out is 6 years old. I believe he is already stunted so i didn't think he would be getting much bigger

the common is about 2 inches long and i was planning on moving him out as well when i get another tank

the fantail is a baby about 1/2 an inch long

when i got the fish at the store they said they should all be okay, goldfish included, because all of these fish needed a temp of about 74-76, and that the tropical fish would be okay with their flakes and the goldfish food would sink to the bottom.

I have only used the ph buffer once, and i used less than recommended on the bottle. the ph has dropped to about 7.4 and i was going to leave it alone at that.

I can't reiterate enough that i AM going to get another tank. Here were my choices, keep the 2 adult goldfish in TERRIBLE CONDITIONS i will post a pick as soon as i have it uploaded to photobucket. or move them to a tank with the tropical fish.

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Did you read my last post? It is not advised to salt with so many fish that are overstocking the tank something as simple and harmless as salting could potentially kill your fish. You do realise that your tank is overstocked. No treatment will help in these conditions.

Here is what Trinket said

Even salting (the gentlest treatment for ich) these fish will not help in these conditions.

I will repeat my questions i asked

What type of pleco is it?

What type of tropical fish are they?

edit: we replied at the same time.

Edited by dan in aus
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Ok now we are getting somewhere.

Tiger Barbs are very aggressive fish they should be in a tiger barb only tank. Lyre Tail plecos get huge as a baby it is advised to have a 200litre tank or 55gal. Tetras need a school of 5 or more to be happy so 1 on it's own is not good. The glofish are danios so with the danios they are in a shcooling group they can live with goldfish they have the same needs except for food.

hey dan what about putting some in a huge rubbermaid container in the mean time would that help at all?

Good idea i think i mentioned it in my first post. A rubbermaid or storage tub will help you out alot, they are cheaper than a tank and come in larger sizes.

Edited by dan in aus
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Welcome to Koko's! If you don't have any Rubbermaid containers as Trinket suggested, I'd call the lfs where you got the fish and ask them if you can possibly return them. I don't know if they will take back fish that have ich, but it would be better than the alternative which will be fatal for your fish.

Good luck!

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Here is what they were living in. I just got hold of my fiances dad (used to keep the fish) he still has that aquarium, so i'm going to take it, clean it up, and put harry (my rat) in it and use harry's current home as a new tank (10 gal)

the tiger barbs were going to be moved to a 2 gallon, and the black tetra seems to hang out between the barbs and the danios a lot. sometimes you will see him swimming along with the barbs like he was one of them.

also, since i can take the pleco back to the store and exchange him for a small one, doesn't that make it okay?

I figure i can put the barbs in teh 2 gallon

leave the danios and glofish with the tetra and fantail

and move the adult goldfish into the 10 gallon to make it less cramped

I have a 30 gallon aquarium but it is currently housing a 4 foot long ball python. in another month or two i can put him with the female and use the 30 gallon for JUST the goldfish

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The goldfish really can not live in the 10gal they produce alot of waste and become big which is why they need such big volumes of water. The pleco as a baby needs at least 55gals of water to it's self. Keeping it as a baby in a little tank will cause it to become stunted. When the pleco reaches adult size a 100gal tank is the minimum. The tiger barbs can not live in a 2gal tank 5gal minimum 10gal is preferable for 2 barbs. The danios are ok but unless you can get a bigger school for the tetra i would return him.

Once the fish are in seperate quarters then it will be easier to treat the ich. i will pm a mod for further assistance.

edit: i forgot the pm feature is not working just hope that a mod sees this thread.

Edited by dan in aus
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Dan is already giving you very good advice so I don't want to intrude - just wanted to say

"and put harry (my rat) in it and use harry's current home as a new tank (10 gal) "

I imagine you clean his 'tank' with disinfectant every week? In this case you cannot use it for fish. Any plastic which has had contact with cleaning fluids or disinfectants will kill fish. Also, you cannot keep 3 goldfish in 10 gals for 2 months - it just is not big enough.

Before you go any further can you read the two links below my sig? They will tell you a lot more about the needs of your fish and how water chemistry works in an aquarium. :)

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Dan is already giving you very good advice so I don't want to intrude - just wanted to say

"and put harry (my rat) in it and use harry's current home as a new tank (10 gal) "

I imagine you clean his 'tank' with disinfectant every week? In this case you cannot use it for fish. Any plastic which has had contact with cleaning fluids or disinfectants will kill fish. Also, you cannot keep 3 goldfish in 10 gals for 2 months - it just is not big enough.

Before you go any further can you read the two links below my sig? They will tell you a lot more about the needs of your fish and how water chemistry works in an aquarium. :)

Ahh good pick up pixie. Also the snake tank should not be used for fish either for the same reason. Reptiles tend to damage the tank more than fish so when you fill it up there is a great possibility that it will leak.

PS. I have merged both topics as they pertain to the same tank. This will save confusion.

Edited by Pixiefish
2 topics running on the same subject.
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I am suggesting those options as a fix since apparently i am killing my fish.

I understand what the nitrogen cycle is, and that it is going to take time before things are right.

Also the "tank" harry is in has not been cleaned with disinfectant, only mild dishsoap and water, and it is glass, not plastic.

I understand that plastic is harmful when using it cross=species so to speak. considering i have always used this combination when cleaning tanks before use (fish and other species) without adverse affects, i thought it would work.

once again, I am doing what i can. i am broke. i can't go out and buy a new tank for all these fish. i can't go out and buy tubs for them either. at the same time, did you see what they were living in? should i have left them to die in that filth?

I don't know what to do anymore. Nothing i can do seems to be the right thing to help these guys. and i can't return all the fish. i don't know about where you guys live, but out here there is an expiration date (1 week) on returning fish and at the other pet store, unless it is an exchange, they won't let you bring them back. all sales final.

still, afterall, thank you everyone.

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Dishsoap can still poison fish if there is any trace left in the tank. I suppose it might be okay if you keep washing it out since it is glass. I would nuke the rat tank with bleach. 1 part bleach to 19 parts water then let it out in the sun for a couple of hours and rinse out with water and then dechlorinated water. Just some suggestions if you have some big terracotta pots that are lying around you can plug the hole and fill them up. Use them like a traditional chinese water bowl. If you have any storage tubs unused they are good. Even those big flexible buckets i have a 30gal bucket that i use for the fish.

Edited by dan in aus
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