Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jack of Hearts

Aquarium Public Enemy #1

Recommended Posts

This technically should be in the disease or tank board but I thought it would get a lot more views on the Goldfish Discussion board.

I'm alarmed at how many members here do not treat for flukes during the quarantine procedure. According to Rick at GFC, he has never seen a new goldie that did not come with flukes! Flukes cannot be seen with the naked eye, only under a scope! Flukes kill more goldies than any other parasites! Salt does NOT kill flukes!

Treating for flukes is a mandatory procedure when you get new fish and it probably should be an annual event after that as well. With the advent of a drug like Prazi-Pro, which unlike the effective but ultra-nasty Clout, is sooooo gentle on the goldies and basically stress free, there is no excuse whatsoever not to treat a new fish for flukes. Not only that, it is so gentle that it does not even bother the good bacs so it will not affect your cycle.

I get email newsletters from Rick and I dug up one that he sent last year regarding Flukes. It is quite an eye opener and anyone that has not seen it should read it. :exactly

Here it is:

Goldfish Care: The Number One Parasite Enemy!

Goldfish Collectors Number One Parasite Enemy ??

We've imported thousands of goldfish from all over the world and we never received a goldfish that did not have flukes. Flukes have caused more deaths for Goldfish Collectors than any other parasite. Here's what you should know about flukes and how to keep them from harming your goldfish friends.

First of all you cannot see flukes with the naked eye, they are microscopic. The life span of a fluke in warm water is 14 to 30 days, however, in cold water, eggs and adults can survive up to seven months. This is why it's so important for goldfish collectors with ponds to treat their fish every spring and fall for flukes.

There are two classes of flukes: Dactylogyrus (Dacs) and Gyrodactylus (Gyros).

Dactylogyrus (Dacs): are called gill flukes, however, Dacs are also found on the body. Dacs are "egg layers". Depending on the temperature of the water the eggs can hatch from 4 to 30 days. No treatment will terminate Dacs in the "egg stage". For this reason treatments must be done over a period of time and that time depends on the temperature of the water. The warmer the water, the faster the eggs will hatch making the treatment time shorter.

Gyrodactylus (Gyros): are called body flukes, however, Gyros are also found on the gills. Gyros are " Live Bearers". As soon as the young are born they attack your goldfish. A treatment of five to seven days will solve your Gyro problem.

How do Flukes harm my Goldfish?

Flukes bite through the goldfish's protective "slime coat" into the skin of the goldfish causing deadly bacterial forming ulcers which can be fatal to your goldfish. Gill flukes will eat away healthy gills to a point your goldfish will not be able to breath.

How do I know if my Goldfish have Flukes?

The only sure way to know is by checking the "slime coat" of the goldfish under a microscope.

I don't have a microscope, are there other signs of flukes I can look for?

Here are some of the signs that could be caused by flukes.

"Flashing" (rubbing off objects and the bottom and sides of an aquarium or pond) is a good sign of parasites, however, parasites of all types can cause "flashing" not just flukes.

"Yawning" again, is a good sign of parasites, however, parasites of all types can cause "Yawning" not just flukes. Something sruck in the goldfish's throat can also cause "Yawning".

"Labored Breathing" again, is a good sign of parasites, however, parasites of all types can cause "Labored breathing" not just flukes. High ammonia and high nitrites can also cause heavy breathing.

How do I treat my Goldfish for flukes?

I remember the days when the treatment for flukes did almost as much harm to our Goldfish than the flukes! Those days are gone forever, thanks to Praziquantel (Prazi)!!

Prazi will not harm the "good bacteria" in your filter or stress your goldfish in any way. We have had goldfish as small as an inch and a half eat Prazi with no problems. Our Prazi Q is excellent for goldfish aquariums up to 55 gallons. Our Aqua-Prazi would be the best choice for goldfish aquariums over 55 gallons and goldfish ponds.

Note: The myth that salt will kill flukes is just a myth.

Don't wait for signs of flukes to appear on your goldfish. Treat every new goldfish for flukes no matter where you bought him. In fact, I would treat all your goldfish at least once a year for flukes, it will not hurt them. For Goldfish Collectors with ponds, I would treat every spring and then again in the fall just before your goldfish get ready for their long winter's nap.

Keeping your goldfish and goldfish aquarium free from deadly flukes will bring you a long way in keeping your goldfish happy and healthy!

Thanks for your time,

Rick

www.goldfishconnection.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, this Prazi Q is sold at GFC? I think I may need to get some. I have never treated my fish for any parasites and I am wondering if Prazi Q kills other parasites other than flukes? If it will not harm my fish or the cycle, then I am going to order it today and start treatment as soon as I get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is really interesting. I've never treated any gf for flukes or seen any symptoms. Should I really treat them now despite this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, this Prazi Q is sold at GFC? I think I may need to get some. I have never treated my fish for any parasites and I am wondering if Prazi Q kills other parasites other than flukes? If it will not harm my fish or the cycle, then I am going to order it today and start treatment as soon as I get it.

You can get it pretty much at any on-line pet shops. I got mine at www.thatpetplace.com. I just ordered a 4oz from them and the bottle ws $7.99 and the shipping $8.99. Last year I ordered a 1oz bottle and the bottle was $3.99 and the shipping was again $8.99. If I planned things ahead, I suppose I would save a lot in shipping costs. :D:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have to treat the fish I get from Ken, becuz he treats all his fish for Flukes when they come in, and he starts selling them within 5 weeks or so, after his QT period.

But, I had never treated my store bought fish, in over a year....so I treated them recently, even though they were mixed in with my new ones. But since the product is so safe, a double treatement is not going to hurt them. At least I have peace of mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That is really interesting. I've never treated any gf for flukes or seen any symptoms. Should I really treat them now despite this?

Are you talking about fishes you have had for while? I would because you have nothing to lose. Unlike the nasty fluke medicine of yesteryear which stressed the goldies tremendously, Prazi Pro is so gentle that there really is no downside anymore to treating as a preventive maintenance.

Rick says ponds should be treated twice a year as it is obviously exposed. He also reccommends treating once a year in "closed" tanks as well.

The only way to know for sure if you have them is to do a scrape and scope like Olivia(RYUU) and others do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prazi is great! but you have to remember when treating with it that it's only effective for about 4 days, so in 4 days time you should treat again. This will ensure that the newly hatched flukes are getting the medicine full strength.

Some people recommend using Prazi every 4 days for 2 weeks as a quarantine procedure. Considering the life cycle of the fluke and the fact that it can burrow deep inside the gill tissue and survive, it makes sense to treat for a longer period.

I would like to add that I have used it on my cichlids too. They did not like it but they were not harmed by it. (unfortunately, the LFS that I prefer has a fluke problem, everything I buy gets Prazi in quarantine.)

Edited by Chickey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Prazi is great! but you have to remember when treating with it that it's only effective for about 4 days, so in 4 days time you should treat again.

Not with AquaPrazi. It's a 7 day treatment with no water changes. No repeat is necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only way to know for sure if you have them is to do a scrape and scope like Olivia(RYUU) and others do.

It just so happens that I'm working in a cell lab this semester equiped with *everything* I'd need to do this. I might attempt it, I could easily get a sample from my lionhead Elaine who is pretty much immobile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what about parasite clear it says it kills gill and body fliukes and other parasites w/o harming biological filtration but is it gentle enough .Im stocked up on the stuff but havn't used it yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Praziquantel is Praziquantel. And flukes are flukes. As good as Prazi is at eliminating flukes, it cannot do it all in one treatment.

Flukes are amazing creatures. I think they are really COOL in how they live and breed. I HATE what they do to my goldfish, but the creature, itself, is pretty amazing. A "mother" fluke can carry several generations of babies within her body. If you kill her, she is still capable of giving birth to live babies - and if you kill them they are STILL capable of giving birth to yet ANOTHER generation of baby fluke. As I said - they are AMAZING. They are about as close to being a "water cockroach" as anything can be - being one of the few things that would probably still be around after a nuclear blast! ( ;) )

But - you will only kill one generation with PRazi. You need to treat multiple times. 7 days or not, the chemical/drug is only effective for a specific period of time - aproximately 2-3 days, give or take depending on the water, the temp, the light, the oxygenation, etc. Since it is water bourne in most treatments, it can only reach the flukes that are available in the main water stream. The flukes that are down in the gravel may not be treated.

NEver assume that a single treatment takes care of them all. I will treat until I can scope no flukes on three different scapes on a fish done in the most vulnerable places on the fish's body.

Flukes can kill, but generally do not. They, instead, decrease the gill function, decrease the fish's vitality, lower immunities and cause stress and openings in the fish's body defences. The fish usually will succumb to OTHER, opportunistic nasties.

Fish can carry a smaller load of flukes for years - never showing much problem with them. But anytime they run into other problems, they can take them much harder and succumb much faster because of the fluke load. Fluke infested fish do not grow as well, do not breed as well, and in general, do not thrive as fluke-free fish will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Praziquantel is Praziquantel. And flukes are flukes. As good as Prazi is at eliminating flukes, it cannot do it all in one treatment.

Not according to Rick here: http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/det...30&catId=21

"Our Prazi-Pro takes app. five treatments and you would need 3 jars to treat your 100 gallon tank @ $14.99 a jar. Our Aqua-Prazi takes just one treatment which would be just one teaspoonful, and has a "shelf life" of at least two years"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I e-mailed Rick today and he responded and said that his Prazi-Q would be best for me to treat my fish for flukes. I am ordering it today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(unfortunately, the LFS that I prefer has a fluke problem, everything I buy gets Prazi in quarantine.)

Unfortunately your LFS is probably the rule rather than the exception.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I treat for flukes now ever since it spread through most of my tanks, Im still treating most of them cause fish r still showing symptoms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flukes can kill, but generally do not. They, instead, decrease the gill function, decrease the fish's vitality, lower immunities and cause stress and openings in the fish's body defences. The fish usually will succumb to OTHER, opportunistic nasties.

Fish can carry a smaller load of flukes for years - never showing much problem with them. But anytime they run into other problems, they can take them much harder and succumb much faster because of the fluke load. Fluke infested fish do not grow as well, do not breed as well, and in general, do not thrive as fluke-free fish will.

Excellent point Daryl. This is an highly important factor that many do not realize. A person will lose a fish to a completely different disease, never suspecting that a fluke had anything to do with it. In many cases that fish might not have contracted that disease in the first place had it not been for their immune system being weakened from flukes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you scope JOH?

No. I had a scope when I was a little kid. I scoped everything and anything, lol. :D I actually learned a lot with it.

I have no idea what happened to that scope, must've gotten lost in one of the moves. I should get one. No serious goldfish keeper should be without one huh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooooo....I have the fancy goldfish book at home and I think it shows how to do a scrape and scope. If I do take a sample, what will I do until I get get it to the lab (about 20 mins). Will it be ok in a sample of the tank water, or is that just too long?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If salt dosn't kill them.....what does salt do?

I believe that salt does kill some parasites, such as ich, but does not have any effect on flukes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Praziquantel is Praziquantel. And flukes are flukes. As good as Prazi is at eliminating flukes, it cannot do it all in one treatment.

Not according to Rick here: http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/det...30&catId=21

"Our Prazi-Pro takes app. five treatments and you would need 3 jars to treat your 100 gallon tank @ $14.99 a jar. Our Aqua-Prazi takes just one treatment which would be just one teaspoonful, and has a "shelf life" of at least two years"

Lola - you know, Daryl has an enormous amount of experience in treating, raising and breeding fish. This is considerably more experience than most of us here can claim to have ourselves. Her evaluation of the success of Prazi is based upon her own treatments, matched against subsequent microscope findings, plus an in-depth knowledge of the fluke life-cycle and survivial behaviour.

What you need to bear in mind is that Rick - undoubtedly a marvelous fish expert - is also a business man. He has products which he sells very effectively through his extremely well organised and informative site. There is, after all, no disadvantage to re-dosing Prazi as it is harmless. The potential disadvantage of sticking with one treament only, is far greater.

Edited by Pixiefish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The potential disadvantage of sticking with one treament only, is far greater.

Rick recommends twice a year treatments in pond fish, and annually in aquarium fish. The reason AquaPrazi can be dosed singly, I suppose, is becuz of its strength. The Prazi Pro, however, is not as strong, and needs to be redosed.

This is what I got from talking to him on the phone when I ordered last from him. Yes, he's in the business to help fish owners, but would not sacrifice his own greediness over the health of our fish. I trust his judgement. I never said Carol didn't know what she was talking about. I hope you didn't assume that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
  • Create New...