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Im Going To Save The World


ShariLynn757

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Ok here's the deal. I did a bad water change a couple of days ago, and my babies didnt make it. Anyways, different story.....So now its time for some new fish. I went to the LFS to pick out a couple of new fishies, and i i found three poor fish

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the other guy is a lionhead missing an eye. ( sorry for the blurry pics)

My heart called out to these guys!!! The guy at the store was "nice" enough to give them to me free of charge!

They are still in their bags, floating. The water temp is between 74 and 76, PH is 6.9, havent had a chance to do the nitrates and nitrites, but last i check they were 0. Im going to put them in a 16 gallon tank, i have put 3 tablespoons of aqr. salt in there. I just wanted to make sure there isnt anything else i need to do before I place these poor little guys in their new tank.

Second....what the heck happened to these cuties?! And what can i do to help the healing process?

Next, the little lionhead missing an eye. Everything seems to check out fine with him, im going to place him in my cycled 55 gal (alone). Any speical care i should know about with a fish with a missing eye?!?

Thanks for all the help!!!!

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Bless you for being so kind and caring.

I hope I don't upset you but I was wondering what you did to cause a bad water change that killed your other babies? I don't want to make the same mistake. I believe something good comes from everything bad and it may be that the information you give here could save many more babies.

If you don't wish to share or can't at this time it's OK. Best wishes with your 2 poor little babies.

James

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no i dont mind sharing....i did a water change monday, and we were running behind for an appointment, so i quickly filled my large trashcan i use for waterchanges, checked the temp, added some salt, filled up the tank, and left for my appointment...half way down the interstate i realized i never primed the water. I beat myself up all the way to the appointment, and all the way home, came home and all five of my babies were gone. ~sighs~ sucks but lesson learned!

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You want to make sure you avoid any caustic ingredients in the medication you choose. Avoid for example anything containing copper, Meth Blue, any of the formalins (Green type meds) or potassium permanganate. These can burn gills and burn through open sores and should only be used where the skin is not broken.

Alway check the ingredients of meds, but especially if the fish has an open wound leading inside like these. The second fish looks like he has been eaten alive by another fish. Poor baby. He's a real beaut. The first fish has an angry sore which is probably from bad water but may contain parasites.

I would go with :

1) Daily water changes for a few weeks. This kind of so called bucket to bucket type treatment throws away a whole lot of bacteria and parasites daily in the water you chuck. Eventually the fish builds back strength to deal with the remaining baddies.

2) A general mild water tonic of 0.1% or 0.2% salt. Take it slow. 0.1% is easiest to redose. Maybe its better. Not 0.3%. Melafix is not advised.

3) Jungle Parasite clear tabs because they contain metronidazole which is also good for bacterial stuff, contains prazi which is gentle and necessary and also a small amount of acraflavine which is a disinfectant.

4) Feed a medicated food. Medigold has the broadest range of antibiotic content.

Chances are very very high that a fish that has been chewed on will have parasites and bacterial infection. You must treat for the possible parasites and with p/c tabs you get ingredients that also obligate many anaerobic infections which they both must have.

This will be the gentlest and most effective treatment I would think.

Edited by Trinket
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Thanks for the great advice Imogen!!!!

Im going to search online for all those meds you were talking about. Sould I separte the two? They dont seem to be picking on each other, and they did come from the same tank at the LPS, so if one contains

parasites, so should the other right?

Thanks again.

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Your order looks good to me, Shari! :thumbs:

Looks like there could have been a pleco at work in the tank where those darlings came from, especially with the fish in the second picture. Nasty little buggers!

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parasite problems can be the cause of ulcers as well. Something that compromises the skin. If you know someone with a microscope that can do a scrape to see if there are parasites present it gives you treatment options to get rid of the cause as well as having to work on the cure. That 2nd one does look like it may need antibiotic shots to recover.

Good luck with them.

Trinket why not Potassium Permanganate? They are use often in koi for treating ulcers..a one time thing to kinda cauterize the wound using a paste of it. I've used it on ulcers and had them heal on their own after that. It should not be used without knowledge of what it can do. Used as it should be it will not fry the gills. Used incorrectly it can kill the fish. But why throw the good uses of it out?

Edited by frloplady
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hey guys! I just got home from work, and i lost the second fish in my pictures. He was really bad off, i knew he didnt have much of a chance, but i knew he had a better chance in my tank than in the LPS tank. I still have the first fish, wish me the best of luck. I will let you know when the meds come in.

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parasite problems can be the cause of ulcers as well. Something that compromises the skin. If you know someone with a microscope that can do a scrape to see if there are parasites present it gives you treatment options to get rid of the cause as well as having to work on the cure. That 2nd one does look like it may need antibiotic shots to recover.

Good luck with them.

Trinket why not Potassium Permanganate? They are use often in koi for treating ulcers..a one time thing to kinda cauterize the wound using a paste of it. I've used it on ulcers and had them heal on their own after that. It should not be used without knowledge of what it can do. Used as it should be it will not fry the gills. Used incorrectly it can kill the fish. But why throw the good uses of it out?

I think Trinket was suggesting the gentlest way to medicate the fish right now. As you said, PP can be fatal to the fish if used incorrectly, and it is already very ill and stressed.

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:( I'm sorry that fish went. He was so sweet..but very badly eaten away. What happens with that level of erosion is that osmoregulation becomes seriously affected to the point where the fish is simply unable to perform all the many uptake/output functions necessary for a fish to survive. Parasites and their bacteria have an open invitation into internal organs.

The meds should help the remaining fish and I would also be tempted to treat the 3rd fish (in the cycled tank with the 3 meds) and just feed ammonia to the tank to keep the cycle. Was the blind fish in with the others?> chances are good he is also carrying at least a load of flukes :( despite appearing healthy. PC tabs are gentle and together with salt can catch most common parasites.

Frloplady, I know what you're saying. And I agree that PP is a time honored good treatment for surface parasites/bacteria/fungi if used correctly and under the right circumstances. I have used it as a dip for new fish with surface ulcers. I find its especially good for pond fish who are coming in for the winter or being re-homed or whatever as a short dip/bath. And also as a topical paste much like you would use hp or iodine .Larger, stronger fish and fish where the ulcers are shallow or where damge is epithelial only. It works as a disinfectant similar to the way bleach works by killing on contact but its oxidising properties are hard to control precisely and these continue on as immersion time increases, on into the inside of the fish. This can cause gill burn and small caustic holes in fins and body when not carried out very carefully. With small new, badly damaged fish and a new-to-fish owner it may not be the best choice. There are alternatives and there is also always a choice and of course more than one solution!

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Nikkie,

Your right hun, i rescued three. I only took pics of two, the ones with the open sores. My other rescue is a lionhead (i think) missing an eye. I'll post pics in the photo section soon

Trinket,

I got the fish from the same LPS, but from different tanks. I believe however that all those GF tanks were sharing the same water system. When i asked the guy about the water quility, he only gave me one reading. They were using the quick dip strips, so im not even sure how accurate they were, but he was telling me everything was at 0, showed me his log and everything :rolls eyes: I highly doubt these guys knew much about water quilty.

I have the open sore fish in a 16 gallon tank at alone ( i really need to find some names for them) and the one missing an eye is in my 55 gallon alone. He looks sooooo small in there all by himself LOL I figure both fish are about 2 inches. Well, getting ready to do a waterchange, should i keep up on the salt? The 16 gallon tank is at .2% salt, and the 55 gal is at .1%. When the meds come in should i stop salting, and remove it all with waterchanges?

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You don't have to remove the salt with the meds. These can be run side by side and should be. The salt is very important right now to help the ulcered fish control osmoregulation. Keep it at 0.2% if he's fine with that which he should be. Hang in there, hopefully he'll be able to recover with your attention & care.

Yes, they don't always know for sure the readings of their water. I make a point of testing the water in the bag when I get a new fish home. Last fish- I was told the pH was 8 (it was 6) and the amm and nitrites were zero. The nitrites were 3. They just don't have the time to check all their tanks often enough.

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ok so my medigold and pro gold just came in. Couple of questions.....

My little guys dont seem to like it much. But then again what "kid" doesnt like medication? They will eat it, then spit it out. Should i fast for a few days, and try again later? I fed them nothing this morning, knowing it would come in. Do i feed them the medigold everyday, or skip a few days?

Second question. I havent gotten the other med in yet. However i did stop by the LPS and saw that they had "internal Parasite Guard" clears internal parasites from a company named Jungle it says "improved with praziquantel" . Should i use this as well, or is that going to be way too many meds going on in a tank?

Third. Im a little confused on the whole QT thing. I understand when you get a new fish, you should always QT them. But, i've also read in a few other forums that giving meds to a healthy fish can be harmful to their health. What excatly are you QT them for and how long would you normally QT a fish? What are the general procedures?

Thanks again for all replies!

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Um, as you're feeding MediGold you should not run the Jungle med too - it also contains metronidazole and a couple of other drugs which I can't remember without checking. Wait for the Prazi or you'll be O/D-ing on antibiotics.

Third. Im a little confused on the whole QT thing. I understand when you get a new fish, you should always QT them. But, i've also read in a few other forums that giving meds to a healthy fish can be harmful to their health. What excatly are you QT them for and how long would you normally QT a fish? What are the general procedures?

QT precludes introducing parasites and other infections into your tank. The proceedure is to raise salt to 0.3% over a 36 hr period and increase temps to @78 - hold for about 2 weeks. This sees to most parasites and some bacterial problems. Prazi should be dosed in order to catch flukes (which salt cannot kill) and if after 2 weeks everything seems OK you can reduce salt back down and observe for one last week. You can also feed an internal wormer providing it is ONLY prazi loaded but should not use other med food containing antibiotics unless there is evidence of an internal bacterial infection. Prazi is harmless but antibiotics aren't.

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