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Are They Alright ? Bottom Sitting !


alanworm

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  • Test Results for the Following:
    Ammonia Level? 0
    Nitrite Level? 0
    Nitrate level? 25
    Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 7.5
    Ph Level out of the Tap? 7.5
  • Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 20 for half a year
  • What is the name and size of the filter/s? aqua 200
  • How often do you change the water and how much? weekly about 40%
    How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 oranda 4inches
  • What kind of water additives or conditioners? prime, hagen water conditioner plus
  • Any medications added to the tank? No
  • Add any new fish to the tank? No
  • What do you feed your fish? peas, cucumber, lionhead, dried krill
  • Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",
    bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? red blood streaks, its been their since i got them its there for 2 or 3 months i have feed them jungle lab medicine for one of them and their streaks are still there but i stopped after 1 treatment..last week
  • Any unusual behavior like staying
    at the bottom, not eating, ect..? they're bottom sitting at times i would say about (50%) everyday but eats normally. i see them bottom sitting and i would walk over to see if they were alrite but then they just swims back up and seems as nothing happened.. and i hvn't seen them purk up as much anymore ! currently i just removed the undergravel filter so i'm not sure if its the over populated bacteria if there is such thing ? should i add salt ???
    WHAT SHOULD I DO ? bottom sitting is not a good thing right?

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Hi Alan. Sorry to hear you are still having problems with the red streaks. Could you take a look at the base of the pectoral fins and tell me if you see some red there as well? If so that will help narrow down causes.

The one thing that concerns me is how many fish you are keeping in each tank. I'm confused about this because in your past threads there seems to be a 25, a 2o and a 30 gallon. Is that correct? How many fish do you have in total including the bristlenose plec? These are smallish sized tanks and will only house 2 fish in each. The bristlenose counts as one fish. Second only to water quality problems, overcrowding is the most common cause of stress related tail fin redness.

Otherwise, and if that's all in order, you need to look at other stressors. Those nitrates...are they 25 after a water change? If so, you need to look at reducing those.

Temperature. Are you having temperature fluctations with water changes? This will have the fish bottom sitting.

Do you check your pH regularly in the tank? This can change from day to day, especially during cycling. Fish will bottom sit in acidic water (after some surface gulping usually).

Can you answer all the questions in bold type and we'll take it from there :)

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Hi Alan. Sorry to hear you are still having problems with the red streaks. Could you take a look at the base of the pectoral fins and tell me if you see some red there as well? If so that will help narrow down causes.

The one thing that concerns me is how many fish you are keeping in each tank. I'm confused about this because in your past threads there seems to be a 25, a 2o and a 30 gallon. Is that correct? How many fish do you have in total including the bristlenose plec? These are smallish sized tanks and will only house 2 fish in each. The bristlenose counts as one fish. Second only to water quality problems, overcrowding is the most common cause of stress related tail fin redness.

Otherwise, and if that's all in order, you need to look at other stressors. Those nitrates...are they 25 after a water change? If so, you need to look at reducing those.

Temperature. Are you having temperature fluctations with water changes? This will have the fish bottom sitting.

Do you check your pH regularly in the tank? This can change from day to day, especially during cycling. Fish will bottom sit in acidic water (after some surface gulping usually).

Can you answer all the questions in bold type and we'll take it from there :)

Lol sorry for the mess about the fish tank .. actually i have 3 and now 4 fish tank.. i move them around because before there was a bacterial infection bloom so i had to start over so moved them around ... they are in my hospital tank right now 20gallon i have a red cap and a orange turning black oranda (if u remember) in it right now both of them do bottom sit at times.... these two are the problem ones right now ... when i bought the red cap and the lemon head at the same time they both have lots of red streaks on there fins but the lemon head seem to be better than the other, its sad to see... okay not to get confusing...

RED CAP

Caudal, Anal have red streaks for sure. (Got better than before i got him, but he lost his purky fins now)... As of Pectoral i am not quite sure, i don't know

for sure but there might be one or two streaks near the first ray but i really couldn't tell...

Orange/Black Oranda

No signs of streaks or anything perhaps its the color of the fish i did not suspect any streaks. Do perk up at times but bottom sit as much as the red cap.

Lemon head (in another tank)

Still have little streaks on caudal and anal fin but really thin and i see improvements

Nitrates i am trying to get a new test kit to make sure everything goes well !

As for temperature fluctation that can be possible, not because of the tank is fluctating (because i have heater), i usually estimate the water temperature as i change water... the water here is like ice because its from mnt and so i use hot water and prime...

PH should be constant because the water in vancouver is about 7.5 usually......

01. I've got a few question does the hardness of the water have to do with the strength of the fins??

02. What do you recommand on doing now??

03. About changing water, the water here is seriously too cold, i can only estimate the temperature by touch...

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It is very important to know the temperature you are dealing with and making sure it is matching. So many diseases are triggered by the immune suppressant nature of temperature change more than 2 degrees either way.

By pectoral red, I mean at the base of the pectoral fins-the armpits of the fish, can you check that :)

Edited by Trinket
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Do you have thermometers on each tank? If you can't afford a digital, the stick ons work great.

Yes i do have thermometers on each and every tank.... i have both digital and stick... its just that the water that i put back in the tank i usually just estimate....

It is very important to know the temperature you are dealing with and making sure it is matching. So many diseases are triggered by the immune suppressant nature of temperature change more than 2 degrees either way.

By pectoral red, I mean at the base of the pectoral fins-the armpits of the fish, can you check that :)

If you don't mind how do u change ur water?? cuz normall i change 2 or 3 buckets of water everytime...

I don't really want to buy another heater just for changing water and go through each bucket in the same processs...

The problem with water here in vancouver its really cold the water in tank and the water in room temperature is different ! its really a fuzz but i do wanna know how you do it ? or any suggestions ???

OH pectoral red, nope non of that just normal a bit pinkish becuase its a redcap.... nothing like red.... if u don't mind me asking what does it mean when it is pectoral red???

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You don't need a heater for the bucket water - you can match the two temps with your finger (not index-it is the least heat sensitive apparantly)- but I think you do need to work something out that will mean you can do larger water change safely.

High nitrates are a prime cause for caudal streaking, and 25 after a water change suggests to me that you may have high nitrate issues because of the temperature problem meaning you are only ever doing small water changes. You cannot reduce nitrates effectively with small water changes, you need to do at least an 80% water change occasionally and obviously with that kind of water change you really do need to match the temperature carefully.

I have the opposite problem to you with tank water being warmer than room temp, so I use some boiled treated water to match the difference.

If there is deep red or dark pink at the very base of the pectorals or the caudal it indicates an internal infection. If not, and it is only red streaks I would assume its water related somehow and focus on those details first.

You can also salt to 0.1% as a tonic.

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You don't need a heater for the bucket water - you can match the two temps with your finger (not index-it is the least heat sensitive apparantly)- but I think you do need to work something out that will mean you can do larger water change safely.

High nitrates are a prime cause for caudal streaking, and 25 after a water change suggests to me that you may have high nitrate issues because of the temperature problem meaning you are only ever doing small water changes. You cannot reduce nitrates effectively with small water changes, you need to do at least an 80% water change occasionally and obviously with that kind of water change you really do need to match the temperature carefully.

I have the opposite problem to you with tank water being warmer than room temp, so I use some boiled treated water to match the difference.

If there is deep red or dark pink at the very base of the pectorals or the caudal it indicates an internal infection. If not, and it is only red streaks I would assume its water related somehow and focus on those details first.

You can also salt to 0.1% as a tonic.

alright i'll test out the waters and stuff tomolo again !! and check to see if everything will work out fine ... Thanks for ur help .. i'll keep posting to update the process !!

Edited by alanworm
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