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Lola Might Have Septicemia!


Lolafish

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Lola was bottom sitting a lot over the last few days, and I thought it was becuz of the cycling tank and long term exposure to low levels of nitrites. Of course I've been doing humongous daily WC's, sometimes twice daily to combat the water conditions. What sucks is this tank is FINALLY CYCLING! The nitrites haven't gone up in over 24 hours, and is sitting at .25ppm I'm hoping to have a complete cycle in days.

Anyway, here are water params this morning:

Ammonia: zero

Nitrite: .25ppm

Nitrate: (not testing daily, but has been between 10-15ppm while cycling these last few weeks)

PH: 7.9-8.0

PH out of tap: don't use tap water, use RO only and sometimes from my pool to offset temperature, and the pool is around 8.0

Tank Size: 55g., Running 2 years, but after a cycle crash from doing too much filter cleaning at once (never will do that again!), been cycling since Oct. 31st, 07

Filtration: 2 Emperor Bio Wheel 400's, 1 Rena Filstar XP4 - total of 1,250 gph....also use a 25W UV sterilizer

Water Changes: 50-75% daily, sometimes twice daily, depends on params, but trying to keep nitrites at 0-.25ppm

# of Fish: 6 goldies

Water additives: Aragamilk and Seachem Alkaline Buffer, Prime

Medications: Salt at .2%

New Fish: Sumo came in a few weeks ago, but he was QT'd before adding to tank, he's healthy as a horse!

Food: ProGold and frozen Hikari Blood worms rotated daily, peas once a week (keeping food variety minimal during cycling)

Symptoms: Lola's tail was a little frayed for a while, but it has begun to look better. The salt I have in the tank due to cycling is hopefully having multiple benefits. Lola's appetite is healthy, and she is not bottom sitting anymore, however, I noticed a red sore behind her left pectoral fin 1 day ago. I thought that an ornament I had in the tank was the cause, so I took it out. But this morning, she has another red sore under her belly, and one at the base of her tail. Since I didn't notice them before, I'm assuming they are new. The sores look fresh - almost like a scrape. I don't think there's anything else in the tank that could cause them. There are large, smooth river rocks remaining in the tank, as well as one ornament with very smooth edges....impossible for her to get these kinds of scrapes from.

I am going to put her into a hospital tank tonight when I get home - I wanted to be sure params were good before transferring her. It's only a 5 gallon tank though - will that be okay so long as I can do large daily WC's, or twice daily as the case may be? I have MetroMed that is still good on hand, and also gentomycin that I can give as an injection. Does it sound like she has Septicemia? I'll get some pics up ASAP. I was thinking put her in .3% salt and starting a round of antibiotics and MetroMed, but I am not sure what meds are needed. Is Septicemia contagious? I am watching the others like a hawk now. Lola has had open sores for 2 days now. I don't want the others to catch anything.

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Oh TM, I sure hope Lola gets better soon! I would think the 5g would be okay for a hospital tank as I know you will keep up with the wcs to keep the ammonia low. Do you have a bubbler you could add, or a filter as I know meds usually deprive the water of oxygen. I hope a mod gets here soon to help you out! HUGS!!!!

Posted at the same time! Poor Lola! Those sores look awful! If it is contagious, then I may go ahead and treat the whole tank. Wait for a mod, though, before doing anything as I sure don't know that much about it.

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From the above site:

Treatment of wounds with Mebromin or a 30 minute double dose dip with Methylene Blue OR Potassium Permanganate is also useful in treatment of Vibrio.

I have PP. Should I dip Lola? What would be the mixture ratio? How long? 30 minutes seems like a long time to me.

I am really panicky now. :cry1

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I wish I could help you, Hon, but I don't know anything about PP or how long to dip them. Hopefully, someone will be on soon that can help you more. Hang in there!!!

Thanks Nickie. I can't concentrate now. I'm taking the rest of the day off from work so I can treat my babies.

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I'm so sorry that your fish is sick! :( It is scary when you don't know how to treat your fish.

I didn't know it was contagious. Smokey had a red spot on his side when I took him out. :cry1 I had the tank dark and the glass front covered with a paper bag - so I couldn't see in there well - but the meds I was using were supposed to treat it.

Have you looked at the pinned "Treatments" (I think) section in D&D? That might help, but I'd still wait for a mod to be sure.

I hope someone comes along soon to help! Have you pm'd anyone?

She'll get better, Hon. :k055: You know the people here are great. :exactly

And like Nickie said, definitely keep us posted. :heart

Debbie

Edit for link: http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/typesoftreatment.html

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I'm home now. My stupid computer is running so slow since yesterday. I just did another massive WC in the 55, so nitrites should be back to zero. I salted to .3% too. I PM'd Trinket earlier. Trying to be patient! I want to start treating Lola immediately though, so going to look into how to do the dip.

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I fed the fish already this morning, but can start antibiotic foods tonight if needed. I have Metro-Med and Medigold. I wonder if one of those would be helpful? I don't want to do anything to ruin the last couple of months' cycling - I can't go through that again. I'm going to go ahead and remove Lola to a hospital tank (also, I found someone on craigslist last night that's going to sell me a 10 and 20 gallon tank, so I'll have a bigger space for her by tomorrow), to make sure those sores are closely monitored.

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Lola would the Antibac bath from Goldfishconnection help? In the website, it says that it is great for sores and is the next best thing to an injection. If you want some I can send it to you. I have lots of it that I got back in May 2007. Rick says they are fully effective for at least a year.

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Lola would the Antibac bath from Goldfishconnection help? In the website, it says that it is great for sores and is the next best thing to an injection. If you want some I can send it to you. I have lots of it that I got back in May 2007. Rick says they are fully effective for at least a year.

I found some Melafix I had lying around too, so I went ahead and treated her hospital tank with it. It says it treats sores too. Are you happy with the results from your usage of the Antibac? Do you think I should call Rick and ask him if it would help Lola now?

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Lola would the Antibac bath from Goldfishconnection help? In the website, it says that it is great for sores and is the next best thing to an injection. If you want some I can send it to you. I have lots of it that I got back in May 2007. Rick says they are fully effective for at least a year.

I found some Melafix I had lying around too, so I went ahead and treated her hospital tank with it. It says it treats sores too. Are you happy with the results from your usage of the Antibac? Do you think I should call Rick and ask him if it would help Lola now?

I used it when I was treating Jack when he was bottom sitting back in May. Remember when Jack was so weak that I had to literally drop the food directly in his mouth? I treated him with Medigold, Antibac-bath, & Prazi Pro. I don't know which one worked but Jack is healthy now. He is still on his side bottom sitting but he can move around and pick up food on his own and has healthy appetite. He is basically handicapped but healthy.

I treated the entire tank and although the stuff is pretty nasty looking(tuns the tank water neon green), it didin't seem to stress either Jack or Sosh. It also did not affect my cycle.

Yes I would ask Rick if it would help. I have lots of it so I have no problem sending it to you.

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I just called Rick, and he talked me into treating everybody for Flukes. When I told him I added live plants a few months ago, he said that open sores are usually secondary infections from parasites.....so guess it won't hurt. I should have it in a couple of days.

JOH - when a mod shows up, we'll see if they think your Antibac will help! Thank you so much for your generosity!

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Hi Lola and sorry to hear about the fish.

I'm not certain from the picture if this really is an open ulcer or not. To me it looks more like a red mark than an open wound. Can you look closely - maybe with a magnifying glass and post back to clarify? Also, in one pic it looks as if there may be a whitish tuft growing from the sore? Can you confirm this, too, in case it's just the light?

Just FYI, melafix won't do anything for any type of serious bacterial infection - it's mostly good for healing wounds rather than treating the bacteria which cause them.

I think the QT tank is a good idea to save any interruption to your cycle. However, salting to 0.3% will often give you a little bump and a nitrite spike.

One other piece of information needed - how long did you QT the latest fish and did you run any type of parasiticide? Often, ragged tails and sores can be the result of flukes. Once the skin is pierced, opportunistic bacteria present in most tanks has the chance to enter the fish. How long has Lola's tail be looking rough?

Hopefully Trinket will be on soon - she's very quick at evaluating things.

PS Oopps! Double post! Yup, Rick said just what I was thinking. Never add plants without QT first.

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I just called Rick, and he talked me into treating everybody for Flukes. When I told him I added live plants a few months ago, he said that open sores are usually secondary infections from parasites.....so guess it won't hurt. I should have it in a couple of days.

So he suggested prazi pro?

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To me it looks more like a red mark than an open wound. Can you look closely - maybe with a magnifying glass and post back to clarify? Also, in one pic it looks as if there may be a whitish tuft growing from the sore? Can you confirm this, too, in case it's just the light?

Just FYI, melafix won't do anything for any type of serious bacterial infection - it's mostly good for healing wounds rather than treating the bacteria which cause them.

I think the QT tank is a good idea to save any interruption to your cycle. However, salting to 0.3% will often give you a little bump and a nitrite spike.

One other piece of information needed - how long did you QT the latest fish and did you run any type of parasiticide? Often, ragged tails and sores can be the result of flukes. Once the skin is pierced, opportunistic bacteria present in most tanks has the chance to enter the fish. How long has Lola's tail be looking rough?

Hopefully Trinket will be on soon - she's very quick at evaluating things.

PS Oopps! Double post! Yup, Rick said just what I was thinking. Never add plants without QT first.

Hi Pixie! Thanks for stopping by!

The red marks are more than bruises - they seem to be open sores. The whitishness you see are very tiny tufts, right in the middle it seems. I know Melafix isn't a cure....it's just the only thing I have right now, other than PP. Kind of a band aid while thinking the treatment plan. If anything, maybe it'll act as a analgesic and make her not quite so sore, so to speak.

Lola, Oscar, and Shinobi's fins have been blood streaked at varying degrees ever since the cycle crash. Lola's tail looked ragged starting maybe 2 weeks ago. The plants have been in the tank for a few months, and I always buy from the same local guy - who uses them in his own tanks becuz he knows his supplier well. I always treat the plants with tap water mixed with PP.

I know the cycle is at risk with the salt, but it can't be helped. I can always do WC's, right? ;)

I have never treated for Flukes, although, after considering the symptoms, I've seen them on and off over the last few months...but it coincided with the cycle crash, so I thought the cause was something entirely different. At times, I see air sucking at the top, bottom sitting, and the red streaks in the fins. I contributed it to water quality - but maybe it's been Flukes all along??

Sumo was quarantined for 5 weeks by Ken, and then I quarantined him for 2-3 more weeks (I can't remember now, exactly..but at least 2.5 weeks).

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That all makes sense. I can see how the cycle-crash threw up a smoke screen, too. And of course once the fish are stressed like that they become so much more susceptable to everything.

So Rick has recommended Prazi (the strongest one) which will hopefully arrive soon and I feel you should also treat for the bacteria which has opportunistically invaded the skin. The fungus is in turn feeding on the necrotic tissue the bacteria has damaged. Lovely! What you don't want is for the infection to become systemic. So between running something like Maracyn or taking Jacks offer of the anti-bac bath I'm not absolutely sure.

Let's wait for Trinket.

PS Did Rick feel that MediGold was a good idea for the ulcers or did he not say?

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I have never treated for Flukes

Stuff like Prazi Pro are so gentle and stress free that many experts recommend prazi pro as a mandatory part of the quarantine procedure. Prazi Pro are a long way from the nasty fluke medicine of yesteryear. :)

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