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Lipstick Thread #2


NismoSkylineGTR

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He or She = = not sure looks like a girl to me LOL

well this is my favorite fish among all the fish i have

i call him or her LipStick for SOME reason lol

its been 2 or 3 weeks LipStick has a cut on the face

but he has been fine and i tried to keep the water in

best condition as i can i use to be lasy 1 water change ever two weeks

not i do it every week since i spoted that cut

i'm not sure how did he/she got the cut

it was fine one night as i turn off the lights

next morning when i try to feed them i spoted

he has been swimming fine and eatting fine

the past few days i noticed him not as active

night time all the fish always sleep toghter at the bottom of tank

he will sleep by himslef in a corner

i have took 3 pictures of him any suggestion is helpful

the close shot i have to trap him with a net so he will let me take a close shot

http://a602.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...73616ed5701.jpg

http://a332.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...1feac1fc3cb.jpg

http://a274.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...9d731062289.jpg

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Gorgeous fish, and Lipstick is such a cute name! :)

As chubbygold said, it is extremely important that you answer all of the questions that you can in the above box so a mod or helper can attempt to diagnose what is going on with your fish. If you don't have a water test kit handy, you can take a water sample to your local lfs...just make sure that they give you the exact numbers and don't just tell you that your water is "ok". Its hard for them to tell whats going on without having your tank size, number of fish, and water params.

Good luck!

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If you could let us know the tank details and answer the questions so as we can get a total picture of your set up and water changing schedule it will be enormously helpful in mapping a plan of action for your girl here :)

This is not a cut, it is a( probably bacterial) ulcer -we can help fix this and there are several available treatment methods. Which is best depends very much on your answering those Qs in the white box.

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i dont think its the water condition caused him to be inactive

i really think its the open cut on the face

check out the 3rd link it shows a good detail

its red like a little hole

Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level? none

Nitrite Level? none

Nitrate level? 20

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? low around 6.3 to 6.4 i'll add some proper 7.0 if you guys think its ok for lipstick

Ph Level out of the Tap?

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? since may 75 gallon

What is the name and size of the filter/s? C330 peg and fluval 405

How often do you change the water and how much? every week

How many fish in the tank and their size? 6 3 to 4 inches

What kind of water additives or conditioners? stress coat

Any medications added to the tank? none at the moment

Add any new fish to the tank? 1

What do you feed your fish? hikari oranda gold

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", none

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? none

Any unusual behavior like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..? yes stay at the bottom of tank fairly often for the past 3 to 4 days

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Did you QT the new fish you added into the tank? I made the mistake of the lionhead i got. i didnt QT it, not okay at all -___-" yeah i think the PH is abit to low but let see until the mod get here.

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Yes it isn't just the water stats though. The useful info is often in the other details. For example the size of the tank/how many fish/ which fish are showing symptoms, behavior of the other fish with no symptoms, any new fish etc. These kind of details are very helpful in pinpointing disease. You see every disease has a cause and if you can find the cause the diagnosis is going to be the most accurate diagnosis leading to the best action that will heal the fish most speedily :) If you don't eliminate the cause, you treat the symptoms and a few weeks later, because the cause is still there-wham bam -the symptoms re-appear.

In this case, it could be the new fish that is key. Did you quarantine the new fish?

Only, very often -and in fact almost always- new fish will bring in bacterial and parasitic diseases that they have managed to fight off but are still living on them and the "older" fish have yet to build up their resistance to. The new fish look fine and are probably fine. Its always the old fish that get the disease. Quarantining and medicating the new fish is to protect the old fish. Medicating the whole tank later involves much more expense and the added disadvantage of damaging your biofilter and crashing your cycle. Anyway, we have all done it and I'm certainly guilty of not quarantining in the past too.

How many of the fish are bottom sitting?

How is the new fish?

Are there any red spots on any other fish?

Is there any flashing or scratching going on?

Do you have gravel?This red sore is a deep ulcer. the kind that can indicate either parasites or bacteria that need dealing with or the sores will increase.

Do you have any topical fish medicine for treating ulcerwounds? This would be hydrogen peroxide, iodine or a commercial medication like bio-bandage?

These ulcers seldom come in ones. And if other fish are bottom sitting you will need to keep a close watch and perhaps medicate the tank. Plse answer the above Qs. in blue first.

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How many of the fish are bottom sitting? only lipstick

How is the new fish? very active

Are there any red spots on any other fish? none

Is there any flashing or scratching going on? none

Do you have gravel? yes

lipstick got the red sore before i added the new fish

so its not from the new fish

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"Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? low around 6.3 to 6.4 - i'll add some proper 7.0 if you guys think its ok for lipstick

Ph Level out of the Tap? ........"

Hello Nismo - just while Trinket is offline, I thought I should raise the above issue from your earlier post. 6.3 is desperately low for GFish and so I'm wondering how that compares to your tap PH? - You hadn't filled in an answer for that.

Also, you told us you made weekly water changes but didn't specify how much - could you tell us that, too? Do you vacuum the gravel with each change? These details may provide clues as to whether you may have had a build up of organic detritus and a possible crash or 'bump'.

As Trinket has said, ulcers are the result of bacterial infection - they can either be the primary problem or a secondary infection following parasitical attack. So, if you can let us know about your tap reading and the amount of water you have been changing out each week it will help.

I'm sure Trinket will be back on later so will not butt-in any further! - just noticed the PH reading which had escaped comment so far.

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"Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? low around 6.3 to 6.4 - i'll add some proper 7.0 if you guys think its ok for lipstick

Ph Level out of the Tap? ........"

Hello Nismo - just while Trinket is offline, I thought I should raise the above issue from your earlier post. 6.3 is desperately low for GFish and so I'm wondering how that compares to your tap PH? - You hadn't filled in an answer for that.

Also, you told us you made weekly water changes but didn't specify how much - could you tell us that, too? Do you vacuum the gravel with each change? These details may provide clues as to whether you may have had a build up of organic detritus and a possible crash or 'bump'.

As Trinket has said, ulcers are the result of bacterial infection - they can either be the primary problem or a secondary infection following parasitical attack. So, if you can let us know about your tap reading and the amount of water you have been changing out each week it will help.

I'm sure Trinket will be back on later so will not butt-in any further! - just noticed the PH reading which had escaped comment so far.

I have some cooper safe around if you think i need to treat the tank for bacterial

i'll test the tap water ph in 30 min when my mom is not in the kitchen anymore

so do you think i should use proper 7.0 to raise the ph?

15 to 20 gallon every week in a 75 gallon tank yes i vacuum the gravel

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Aaaaagh! Do not even think about using copper with a tank PH that low - copper is a very harsh med and LETHAL when used in a low PH. In fact, as a rule, one should not run any med until a likely diagnosis is made.

First of all - tell us how much water you've been changing each week.

Next - get the tap reading. If it's about the same you could think about adding a good buffer like crushed coral. If it's higher than the tank, it would indicate that the cycle has crashed and you will need to start changing water to slowly bring the PH up. OK?

PS Sorry didn't see your edit about water volume. Let's wait for the tap PH.......

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Test strips aren't very reliable and are useless if they become at all damp - I like Tetra personally, but a lot of people here also use API. You're definitely right to go with drop testers.

If the new results give the same readings then you'd do well to add crushed coral to the filter and/or use it as a substrate. Trinket will be able to help you with this, too, as she has very low alkalinity herself.

Anyways, I'm signing off for the night now and will hand you back to her :)

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I like the API freshwater master test kit. It's expensive, but you get a lot of quality tests for your dollar. If you have a Pets-mart close to you, you can print out the (low) online price and bring that in, and they'll match the price i the store.

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www.nnnn.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754027&cp&kw=api+test+kit&origkw=api+test+kit&sr=1

is this the product you guys talked about?

Pet store names usually come up as "nnnn"s. But the API Master Test Kit is what many here use - including myself. It has 7 bottles, 4 test tubes w/caps, and cards for comparing the results. There is both freshwater and saltwater, I believe - so be sure to get the freshwater. :)

Debbie

Edit: Picture - I think... Freshwater Master Test Kit Not the reef. The reef doesn't have all the tests you need.

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www.nnnn.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754027&cp&kw=api+test+kit&origkw=api+test+kit&sr=1

is this the product you guys talked about?

Pet store names usually come up as "nnnn"s. But the API Master Test Kit is what many here use - including myself. It has 7 bottles, 4 test tubes w/caps, and cards for comparing the results. There is both freshwater and saltwater, I believe - so be sure to get the freshwater. :)

Debbie

Edit: Picture - I think... Freshwater Master Test Kit Not the reef. The reef doesn't have all the tests you need.

yes this is the one i saw online

how much does it usually cost

is this the same with different picture

http://www.petguys.com/-317163010340.html

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Thanks for the links and pics guys. Very helpful and so important to get drop kits instead of the strip.

Thanks Pix for picking up on several things I missed (where have you been-missed ya!) . Nismo, low acidic pH is not good for goldies as a rule and even if its stable with a strong stable, kH beneficial bacteria nor gold fishes immune system thrive in a pH much lower than 7. Take a browse around the water forums here at kokos and you can find some tips on how to raise your pH safely and permanently.

I would start here with an 80% water change. Sometimes that will have a fish back up off the bottom immediately. Swimming around in good fresh treated new water she is less likely to have that ulcer get worse.

Please -as Pixiefish said do not use coppersafe in a low pH/unstable pH or soft water.

I should start to salt the whole tank to 0.3% sea/kosher/pickling/aquarium salt (see this link that will walk you through) Start now with one teaspoon (0.1%) of the right kind of salt to each gallon of your tank water -and if you can find some straight praziquantel to treat the whole tank too that would be best. Neither of these medications will affect your cycle and both should always be done with a new fish and since the new fish was not quarantined this should now be done in the main tank.

The salt should help the one ulcer heal close up -if this is one isolated colony- and it will deal with any parasites along with the prazi. If the ulcer gets worse or does not heal within 3 -4 days please post back and you will need to treat her with different meds separately.

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Nismo - all you do with the salt is to dose 1 tsp for every gallon your tank holds (pre-disolve it in tank water before adding to the filter outlet so that it is well circulated around the tank)

That will give you a level of 0.1%. Then after 12 hours, you can repeat the dose which will raise the salinity to 0.2% - after another 12hrs, the final repeat dose = 0.3%.

Also, as you have a large tank you can simplify the counting by adding in tablespoons; 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons. So, if your tank is 75 g you'll be dosing 25 tablespoons rather than 75 tsp. OK?

I would recommend watching the ammonia and nitrite on a daily basis while you are salting; I have always found that the cycle is slightly affected and an ammonia or nitrite spike is common. Remember to keep a salt log so that the levels are maintained. Anytime you change-out water you must re-dose the volume you add back.

Let us know your water readings once you've managed to run the new tests.

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drove to 3 differnt pets mart finally found the kit

tab water is 7.6 water in the tank is 6.0

WOW thats a big difference its the api kit

water from the tank is yellow greenish and the tab water is blueish

i also got the API salt is this a good salt to use?

should i use amonia chip? or should i take it out for now?

so 25 tablespoon in 1 day or do the 1 % for 3 days?

i'd hate to put lipstick in a small tank cuz that tank has never healed any fish

i kinda think that tank is jinxed so i should do 80% water change? thats about 60 gallon

i hope i dont shock the fish

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the salt i bought

is on this link

and my other gold fish tank is ph is at 6.6ish these fish are all happy

should i use proper ph 7.0? or do water change on the big tank for now

the spot didn't elarge on lipstick's face hopefully its not ulcer if so it didn't get wrost on the ouside

but the past 3 days lipstick is not as active only when i'm feeding

http://a472.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/image...b2b1128fd2f.jpg

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OK hun, so if the tap is 7.6 and the tank is 6.0 it means you've had a crash. You need to do a large water change as soon as poss. The change will not shock the fish providing youmatch the temperature - it's the acidic PH which is causing them problems.

Also, you're asking about the ammonia chips - do you use these as part of your usual filtration process? Ammonia chips are not recommended for use in a Gfish tank as they prevent the nitrogen cycle from turning over - they eat all the ammonia. Once they become saturated they stop working

I think it would be important for you to tell us about your filter and what is in it before we go any further.

As far as the salt goes, 25 tablsp = 0.1% and it needs to be re-dosed every 12 hours until you reach 0.3% = 3 doses in all.

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