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Sticky Shubunkin Problem...


Guest KoiKrazy

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Guest KoiKrazy

  • Test Results for the Following:
    Ammonia Level? I've never done that testing before. I never really heard about it until rcently. I know that every time I put water into my aqarium I dechlorify it. I honestly sound really dumb, but I don't know how to actually test it.

  • Nitrite Level? n/a
    Nitrate level? n/a
    Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? n/a
    Ph Level out of the Tap?n/a
  • Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? I have a 20 gallon, and has been running since christmas, and a 10 gallon, that has been running since last june or so.

  • What is the name and size of the filter/s? The 20 gallon's filter is the same type of filter...both are Aqua-Tech and are both 10-20 gallon Power filters..

  • How often do you change the water and how much? The 20-gallon was filled up the first time on Christmas, and the 10 gallon was changed on christmas...the water was 30% changed..

How many fish in the tank and their size? In the 20 gallon: one 3 inches long algae-eater ((I believe plecos. not sure on the name)) two 1 inch long "zebra fish" ((not sure on their name either)) one 4 inches-long goldfish, one 5 inches long butterfly koi, and until last night 2 shubunkins ((one was about 1-1 1/2 inch long, and the other 7-8 inches long)) I last night moved the larger of the shubunkins into the 10 gallon tank.

<li>What kind of water additives or conditioners? I have used "wardley watercare chlor out" on both tanks.

<li>Any medications added to the tank? Not yet...I don't know what the problem is yet.

<li>Add any new fish to the tank? The day after Christmas I moved the "zebra" fish and the algae-eater into the big aqurium, and the day after that I moved the rest. Yesterday I moved the bigger of the shubunkins into the 10-gallon tank.

<li>What do you feed your fish? I feed both "wardley essential goldfish" flakes..

<li>Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? I have found on the shubunkins small black dots, which I looked up and couldn't find anywhere..they pop up around the fins, near where the fin connects to the body, and near the gills and on the "face". On the large shubunkin, I found scales looking like there were peeling off, and yellow areas near the dots near his/her lower fins...it looks like dead tissue, but I have no idea. It sounds like ich, but it's pitch black "salt".

<li>Any unusual behavior like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..? It keeps on rubbing against the glass sides, back and forth, continuously. It doesn't stay at the bottom, but it goes from top to bottom randomly. It eats normally...

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  • Regular Member

all I can tell u right now is that ur crazily overstocked!! Those shubunkins and other goldfish need 20 gallons each, 1000 gallons in a pond for the koi and they shouldnt b mixed with tropicals, maybe if u fixed that problem the fish would get better

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Hello there and welcome to kokos. I'm glad you found us here :) .

First thing you must do immediately is separate your fish out. You are going to need several large rubbermaid containers, the kind maybe your parents use for pickling foods or for hand washing. Plastic buckets will do for the smaller fish or plec. The koi most definitely does need the largest container you can find.

They need to be transferred out of the small 20 gallon tank into treated- temperature and pH matched water.

You will need to make some phone calls and see if there is someone who can adopt some of these fish for you. The koi needs to be in a pond, these are not really aquarium fish despite waht they may say in the 'eager to sell' petstore.

You have the beginnings of several different diseases going on here. We can talk you through what to do about those when you have the fish moved into more sanitory conditions.

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  • Regular Member

Hello KoiKrazy and welcome!

One other thing to add here is that you absolutely must get a water testing kit. If you separate your fish as Trinket suggested, you are going to need to test your water params frequently, as you are flying blind without them. Mixing tropicals and goldies doesn't work as they have different needs, temps, foods, etc. Tropical fish must have warmer water temps that stay the same all the time, so they need a heater in the tank. Goldfish thrive in somewhat cooler temperatures. But the ammonia levels will kill ALL of your fish, goldies and tropicals alike. Your tank hasn't cycled, since you just set it up at Christmas, but it won't cycle anyway with the way its overstocked. Think of it as cramming 10 large people into a small closet and shutting the door.

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Guest KoiKrazy

okay...thank you everybody. >.< I feel real dumb now.

The larger shubunkin is alone in the 10-gallon tank. the rest in the 20-gallon.

I'll give them away, first thing. I feel horrible. Wow. Forgive me people...I guess first I should do as the "doctor" says. What do I do after I separate them?

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  • Regular Member

We didn't mean to make you feel dumb. Its difficult news to break to anyone. You are not alone, most people start off overstocking their tanks. Know I did.

Do you have any of those plastic type tubs you can set up for now? You need to get the fish out of that water fast. It is lethal right now. It is full of ammonia and other chemicals that build up over days and the only way to reduce those is c hanging the water. One water change since Christmas and tanks going into their second week of cycling is not enough water changes for even one fish I'm afraid. Can you click on the first link in my sig below to read about "cycling". That will be a good place to start reading after getting your fish into better water. The water the fish are in now is highly toxic. The ammonia and nitrite levels must be way too high. If you can get them into fresh new de-chlored water that will hopefully save them. New water immediately is the best medicine here.

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  • Regular Member

Hon, don't beat up on yourself. Almost all of us came here with misconceptions about caring for fish, and overstocking is so common. Especially when you go to the fish stores and they tell you that 1 inch of water per fish is a good number! :krazy: Its hard to know what to do. But you came to the right place for help. The moderators and helpers here will help you get your fish situation straightened out, diagnosed, and help you get on track to keeping them healthy and happy.

Good luck and we'll be keeping our fingers crossed for you and the fish!

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Guest KoiKrazy

Okay...thank you. =D I read the articles and now I know...I am very suprised. I am trying to give away the fish, and now that I know what's wrong somebody will more than likely want to take the fish. I'm getting the kit first thing too. I am separating the fish and getting cleaner water...I believe though that it's going to take a while to fix my mistakes though. Thank you SOOO very much for helping me. I think I owe my fish an apology too.

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  • Regular Member

We ALL owe our fish apologies for one thing or another. Its not like you did it on purpose or don't care. You're obviously a caring person. It IS surprising when you have always thought that goldfish were easier to care for than tropicals, or at least I always did until I came on here when I almost killed my fish.

You will get wonderful advice and help here and your fish will be fine sooner than you think! Just keep up those water changes and test your water twice a day. You're doing great! :)

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Guest KoiKrazy

alright...the fish have been in safety...and I have already gotten rid of the two small "zebra" fish. I've started the testing and the fish look like they're feeling better. ^_^ I have aquarium salt in their...and I've gotten this little meter panel, like the one that read the temperature that you stick to your aquarium, and it should work for about six weeks until I have to change it out...it has pH lvl and ammonia testing on it. Is there anything else I need to do, other than give away the koi and such?

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  • Regular Member

If you can find someone with a pond for the koi, that would really be doing a big kindness to that fish. You can keep 3 of the other fish. Two in the 20 gallon if you are careful and diligent about regular water changes (once a day at 30% or every second day at 50% until the tank cycle is done)....and one fish in the 10 gallon. That's all you have space for at the moment.

Since you have a pH and ammonia checker, well done, you'll just need one more kit for now - a nitrite kit. That is urgent and needs testing if you see any gasping at the surface/ sitting on the bottom and/or anyway every day or two while cycling. If you see any nitrites above zero or any ammonia above zero you have to do a partial ,temperature matched with your finger will do, water change until they read zero again.

Other than that, keep reading here at kokos and before long you'll know enough to make you an excellent fishkeeper :)

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Guest KoiKrazy

alright...my sister getting a job at a pet store really actually going to help lol. I'll get the nitrite kit as fast as I can...

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  • Regular Member

:P I hope your sister gets a discount working at the lfs! I have the ammonia tester that you are talking about and it was around $20 at the local store here. Of course, they are ridiculously high, but there is no place else in my area to get Prime and stuff like that. The tester works for 3 months, and comes with 2 refills that also work for 3 months, so in the long run is a little cheaper. I liked the fact that it stays in the water where you can constantly monitor it for any spikes.

Keep up the good work, KoiKrazy! :rockon

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Guest KoiKrazy

Hopefully she will...

actually mine was about $13. You got the better deal by far though...mine only works for 6 weeks. >_< owell....I can still get the batteries for it after then. Plus I didn't want to buy all of the little dropper-looking test kits...I was afraid of messing the results up. O_O

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Guest KoiKrazy

The yellow spot I mentioned on my fish..I know now that the black dots are healing spots from ammonia poisoning, but what is the yellow area? It's at the base of one pf my fish's fins, at the connection of the fin to the body, and I need to know what to do about it...I'm cycling and everything, but should I do something else for it?

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  • Regular Member

How is the yellow spot now, KoiKrazy? All the other fish doing okay, and how is the cycling coming along? :)

Sometimes fish's colors get messed up when they are in stress, and that might be whatever you are seing. Does it look red and irritated, or is it raised in any way? Round, or rather a odd shape? I have seen the whitish/blueish part of calico fish turn a little yellow from stress. Or maybe you are just seing an oddly colored scale. Try to discribe it a bit close, and we'll go from there. :)

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  • Regular Member

goodjob on rehoming some of the fish! Just make sure that if u wanna keep some goldfish that u only keep fancy goldfish cause the tanks r too small for single taild goldies. I hope all ur fishies feel better soon!

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