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Oranda Head Hemmoraging?


Karen

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This happened overnight. My Oranda has developed what looks like bleeding into two of the folds of her head. They are also swollen and distended from her head. It's a 30 gallon tank with two Orandas. I use a Aqua Clear 300 filter system. Nitrites are .1, Ammonia is 0, Ph is 7.6, Nitrates are less than 5, temperature is 78 degrees. I did have trouble with ammonia two or three weeks ago but used lots of water changes and this has cleared it up.They were on MediGold and peas and then I switched them to Jump Start about four days ago. They were on the MediGold for swim bladder problems with one of them.Please help!I

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Karen, 78 degrees seems a little high for goldfish. That's the first thing that popped in my head. I typically keep my fish at about 74 degrees. Is there anything in the tank that could have caused the fish to get injured? Any rocks, open filter intakes, sharp edges??? Do you have a picture of the fish?

Do you have aquarium salt?

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Hi; When I had problems before and consulted this site it was recommended that I increase the temperature to 78 - 80 and keep it there. I can't think of anything that she could have hurt herself on. There are some rocks but they're at the back of the tank. Also, the wound isn't an open one. It really does look like blood that has escaped from her body into a couple of the "cabbage-like" flaps on her head (which have swollen to hold the blood). Her appetite and energy are very good too. Unfortunately I don't know how to attach a photo. I can't see any buttons in Koko's site that would allow this. Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I don't know what to do. I will put her back on MediGold though.And I do use aquarium salt with every water change as well.

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Nitrites are .1, Ammonia is 0, Ph is 7.6, Nitrates are less than 5, temperature is 78 degrees. I did have trouble with ammonia two or three weeks ago but used lots of water changes and this has cleared it up.

Hi Karen and welcome. Just wondering about the water. Any idea what caused the ammonia to spike and now a nitrite presence?

Maybe you answer the remaining Q's from the box above........

Tank size (How many Gals)

How long has it been running?

What is the name and size of the filter/s?

How often do you change the water and how much?

How many fish in the tank and their size?

Add any new fish to the tank?

What do you feed your fish?

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt",

bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

Any unusual behavior like staying

at the bottom, not eating, ect..?

It could be a water issue, so hold off medicating again until we've done a little more 'evidence gathering'!

Post back when you can.

PS For photos you can use a photobucket account - lots of people here do this.

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Hi There;

It's a 30 gallon tank (25 gallons or less if you include air space at the top and rocks at the bottom) that has been running for years.The filter is an AquaClear 300. I'm not using carbon, just sponges and small filter "rocks". The water is changed weekly and 5 gallons is changed at a time. If there is ever any indication of ammonia, I keep changing the water, once a day, until it's clear. There are two fish in the tank (neither of them is new). One is 5" and the other is 3". The fish have been eating MediGold and then Jump Start. There are no bloody streaks or grains of salt. There was frayed fins and a cloudy eye on the other one but I treated it with TeeTree Oil quite awhile ago and it cleared up. The behavior seems quite normal too and her appetite is good. I can't figure out why the ammonia jumped so far and so fast. I hand feed both of them. Thanks for your help!

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Aha! The water changing schedule now explains the cycle bumps you are getting.

For your 30gal with 2 growing fish, 15-20 gals a week would be a better target. Otherwise, the waste output and organic load rises above safe levels, all your buffering gets used up and the tank begins to slide into acidity. If you can concentrate on upping the change volume closer to 50% or even more, I think you'll find your tank stats will stabilize. Just to be safe you could check your reading for KH.

Meanwhile the oranda is probably reacting to the elevated amm and nit and with pristine water over the next week it should be fine. Do a big water change to take the nitrite to zero. You could also add aquarium salt to 0.1% if you like (1tsp per gal pre-disolved in tank water). Then just watch the wen very carefully. If anything else crops up or the site appears to be deteriorating, just shout and we'll take things as they come. OK?

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KH measures your carbonate or temporary hardness - this shows your water's capacity to hold a steady PH. It's often referred to as your buffering capacity. The nitrogen cycle, which converts your fish waste from ammonia to nitrate, is an acidifying process which uses up carbonates and bi-carbonates as it becomes more acidic. The more alkalinity you have, the more stable your PH is.

You can usually get KH and GH tests together - API make one. If it turns out that the KH is low, you can take measures to provide more buffering by adding crushed coral either to the filter or as a substrate.

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I'll still say that 78-80 degrees is too high for goldfish. I only put my heaters that high when I'm treating for disease or doing a salt treatment for new fish in the quarentine tank, and then it's only for a few days.

I agree with bigger amounts of water changes. I regularly pull off 50 percent of the tank water weekly for the goldfish..... sometimes more if the have been eating messy foods or tearing up plants.

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78 is a little high but perhaps we should know more about the fishes previous illness. ie when and what was it?

Often times a fish treated for dropsy will have to remain at a higher temp to prevent a relapse. But if it was something else the temp, could be lowered a little. Having said that I am keeping my fancies at 76. I find it helps their digestion and they seem to do very well.

How is your fish now, Karen? Let us know how things are going.

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Guest eric2601

Since most of mine are ful headed Orandas - an example is Punch seen here in the Video:

I can give u some side thought. sometimes, through grinding against the glass or digging for food - particulates get weged in between the folds of the wen. The wen is gorged with blood - the sacks thatyou are seeing may be dead blood cell sacks - like what happend when you geta cut infection - and white blood cells are an ozz byproduct - from infection by oppportunistic bacteria , etc. This was not uncommon when I first started. Look closely at the sacks to see if the fluid is blood or partially clear - most of the time they will break and heal on their own - Once a month - I have been in the habit of lightly - not at all deep - q-tioping the folds on the fish with a history of this problem - IN a couple of cases when the sacks have broken - I have used bio bandage - on a qtip - and dabbed on the area so as to prevent reinfection - in thatit contains antibacterial properties as well as saling properties.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Hi There; I'm still having big problems and can't figure it out. The water parameters are:

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 6

Ph - 7.6

Kh - 0

Gh - 0

30 gallon tank

Established for quite awhile

2 Orandas (3" and 5")

Aquaclear 300 filter

Water @ 78 degrees F

Water used in the is bottled (5 gallon jugs) reverse osmosis water

I add aquarium salt with each water change.

I've been doing so many water changes that I think it's stressing the fish. I've been changing 5 gallons PER DAY in order to get the Nitrates down. I didn't want to do more at one time because of the difference in water temperatures between the tank water 78F and the new water (room temp 70F). I only feed the two fish by hand so there's nothing sitting at the bottom. Everytime I do a water change I vacuum the bottom of the tank. The large Oranda has now developed some cottony growth on his head and he's lost his appetite and his energy is low. He just sits on the bottom of the tank right now.

I'm wondering if the reverse osmosis water might be creating the problem since the bacteria is removed during processing. This means that the good bacteria is also gone. To remedy this I've started adding a natural product called "Cycle" by NutraFin. It's supposed to add good bacteria to the water and they say it is impossible to overdose. I've been adding this for a week now. To deal with the small cotton growths, I just started adding Melafix today. I'm supposed to add it every day for seven days.

I know I'm missing something but I sure can't figure it out. How can Nitrates keep going up radically when Ammonia and Nitrite levels are showing zero? I really care about these fish and hate to see them suffer.

Thanks for all your help!

Karen

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