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Orandas Sick-same Tank, Different Diseases


Guest dragoneyed

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Guest dragoneyed

Test Results for the Following:

Ammonia Level? 0

Nitrite Level? 0

Nitrate level? 20

Ph Level, (If possible,KH and GH and chloramines)? 6.8

Tank size (How many Gals) and How long has it been running? 36 gal..but fish are in 10 gal hospital tank

What is the name and size of the filter/s? Eheim Ecco 2336 external canister filter, and Marineland Emperor 280

How often do you change the water and how much? once a week...15 gallons

How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 goldfish- (1-3in, 3-1in.,1-2in.)

What kind of water additives or conditioners? AmQuel Plus

Any medications added to the tank? not in main tank. hospital tank- Maracyn TC, tetracycline hydrochloride, acriflavine, melafix, Maracyn 2

Add any new fish to the tank? no

What do you feed your fish? pro-gold, bloodworms 1x week, brine shrimp 1x week

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

fin rot/frayed fins on red cap oranda, and popeye & frayed fins in orange oranda

Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, ect..?

red cap oranda has been staying at the bottom, hiding in corners and under driftwood

About 3-4 weeks ago, I found my red cap oranda caught in between the "nooks" of the driftwood. She was stuck for most of the day and when I removed the driftwood to release her, I found a pretty bad open wound about 1/3 of her body near the gills. The sight was heartbreaking. I immediately put Bio-Bandage on her body for 4 days straight and threw out the driftwood.

About two weeks ago, I noticed the red cap oranda's fins splitting along with another oranda in the tank. (Unfortunately, the other fish affected already had an airsac problem and has been bottom sitting for the past 8 months.) i had transferred both to a hospital tank and used Maracyn TC as I had it on stock. So, I added two tablespoons of salt to the hospital tank and medicated them for 5 days. The first two days with Maracyn TC and three days with generic TC. I figured they would be ok to send back to the main tank on that fifth day but I was wrong. The red cap looked active and happy but as 2-3 days went by, the fins were deterioating fast. Now she barely has a right front fin, and all I see is the bones and barely any tail or back fins left!! I transferred her back to the hospital tank with the orange oranda, who had stayed behind as it was being treated with acriflavine. The orange oranda has been curled up on it's side breathing rapidly, and had developed popeye in the last three days while the red cap oranda had fin rot. I just did a 30% water change for both fish, and added melafix and maracyn 2. Just today the orange oranda is doing better and not on leaning it's side curled up. :) I've been feeding Medi-Gold.

Considering the situation, I'm I doing the right thing? Should I also add Maracyn? I'm mainly concerned with my red cap oranda that has barely any fins left!!! Is melafix and maracyn 2 enough? Will the fins re-grow? How long would it take to regrow? :(

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  • Regular Member

Hello dragoneyed and welcome to kokos :) .

I notice I have the same filters as you - I really like those Eheim cannisters.

I'm hoping you'll be back on soon to answer a few more Qs I have for you. It seems like all the problems started with your red cap getting stuck and the resulting wound. When you took out the driftwood and applied a topical disinfectant to the wound did you also at that time do a very large (90%) water change? Only, when the slime coat has been impaired, a fish is weakened or stressed in any way, they become sitting targets for opportunistic bacteria that are in all tanks -the bacteria they once lived quite easily alongside take advantage of the impaired slime coat (this is where the fish manufactures its antibodies after all) and begin to move in.

After any such wound the best action is a large temp and pH matched water change, repeated a few times in a week and a very thorough cleaning of one tank filter. Eheim cannister impellers need twisting and scrubbing with an old toothbrush regularly. One week later filter maintenance of the other filter should be done. In this way the level of bacteria existing is depleted hopefully to a level that the fish can still defend himself from. The bio-bandage you used was a good idea but it is not a longterm protection. Reducing that bacteria will be.

Next, I wonder about your pH. Is it the same from the tap? It is so common for pH swings and acidic pH to halt healing and stress fish farther lowering their immunity. What is your tap pH? With finrot especially a stable and slightly alkaline pH is so very important.

Third I wonder about the use of acriflavine. This is not a bio-bug friendly tank treatment. It so often causes a cycle bump and kills of the biofilter. Have you been able to monitor for ammonia and nitrites daily during the time since the wound? If there were bumps it would definitely explain the deterioration of the fins.

Lastly, the antibiotic medications. Using meds for both gram pos (the tetracyline/minocyline) bacteria and gram neg (Mar 2) back to back with no break is not a good idea IMO, nor is using Maracyn 2 in unstable pH or with any light on the tank. If your orange oranda has pop-eye symptoms the chances are good this is a gram neg rod bacteria that has got on board- pop-eye is a very complex symptom manifestation but it always indicates internal infection. No water born meds will work on pop-eye. The area behind the eye is completely closed off to the regular vascular supply. The only medication that will work will be medicated food. Fresh Medigold (it is not effective after being opened for 4-6 months) will also treat advanced finrot.

So...I think you should focus on reducing the tank bacterial load: monitoring your pH and adding a buffer like coral to increase alkalinity, reduce all stressors like unecessary medication, handling or water issues and give the fish fresh good water, possibly doing small water changes daily to manage these and feed the medigold. No more water meds-they are especially harsh on stressed fins.

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  • Regular Member

Gosh dragoneyed, you have some serious things going on all at once. So sorry to hear that your orandas are so ill. I'm sure a mod or helper will be along here soon to give you some advice, and it was very helpful that you filled out all the info in the box. That will help them a lot to diagnose what the problem might be.

I did notice that you have 5 goldies in a 36 gallon, and the general rule here is that there should be 10 gallons for each fancy goldfish and 20 for each comet. They may tell you that you are overstocked. Also, although its not horribly low, does your PH stay at 6.8? I don't know whether this would have anything to do with your fish being ill, but goldfish do better with a PH of 7.0 or above.

Hopefully someone knowledgeable will be here soon to help you out, and good luck!

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest dragoneyed

Hi Trinket & Ranchugirl:

I've been monitoring the water very closely since I last wrote. (No municipal water irregularities but will try coral buffer for ph...how much should I increase from 6.8?)

My orange oranda has pop-eye on it's left side and it's protruding three times bigger than the last time I wrote in. :unsure: I've been feeding Medi-gold but I don't see the fish eating any of it even though the food is sitting right in front of it's face. I don't know what to do. The red cap oranda is swimming about...I've been feeding it Jumpstart. Can I start giving it regular food? And, how long does it take for fins to grow back? It's so heartbreaking to see my fish of five years with a full fin on one side and a half on the other. :( How much longer should I keep them in the hospital tank?

Dragoneyed (another name for telescope eyed goldfish)

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Dragoneyed, as long as they are sick, they need to stay in qurantine.

As for the pH, increase it slowly. I'd say not more than 0.2 per day. Thankfully, 6.8 isn't all that low, and its easier on the fish to increase just a few points. I'd stop somewhere around 7.2.

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Guest dragoneyed

Hi again,

I've moved the red cap oranda back in the main tank yesterday as it's fins were looking better after using Melafix and Jumpstart. As for the other hospital mate, things are looking downhill. It's body is pineconing due to dropsy and my fish is laying on it's side. Tried feeding it Medi-Meds but it doesn't want to eat. I even went so far as to use a dropper and filled it with food to try to feed in front of mouth.

Just wanted to thank everyone for their help and advice. :heart

-dragoneyed

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  • Regular Member

I am so glad that your redcap is back in the main tank - I am sure he was all happy about it. :D

So sorry about his tank mate though - are you treating him with anything, and is he eating again? Dropsy is nasty, and a affected fish can eat and act fine even when looking like an oversized pine cone, and one day, BAM, you see it go downhill fast. Thats why I hate dropsy so much, because we as owners think that a fish with dropsy might not be so bad off after all because he still eats and swims, until he all of a sudden sucumbs. :(

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