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Goldfish Variations


Faust

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Okay, so here is my next question regarding goldfish genetics. Let's say you have what appears to be a Ryukin (fry) who came from an Oranda father and a Ryukin mother or vice versa. Then you breed the Ryukin (fry) with a Black Moor who let's say a a Ranchu mom and a Black Moor Mother. Is there a chance that the other traits of the grand-parents, other than what you see from the parents might appear in the new fry? Like how twins can run in a family? Light hair, or eye color? I am not really too familiar with genetics, though I would imagine a goldfish might not have as complex genetics. Does this make sense? If you know about goldfish genetics or perhaps a page I am missing regarding these facts, please point me in that direction or shed some light. I would much appreciate it.

Faust

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I'm kinda wondering the same thing, too...like if you breed a lionhead with an oranda, would you get half lionheads, and half orandas? Or all lionheads or all orandas due to the dorsal fin being dominant or recessive? Of what if you bred a crown pearscale with an oranda? half and half? Or all crown pearscales, or all orandas? Or some pearlscales, some orandas, and some crown pearscales? ...Or what about a commet and a bubbleeye? All comets, some comets, etc. etc. etc. Goldfish genetics to me are utterly confusing.

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I'm kinda wondering the same thing, too...like if you breed a lionhead with an oranda, would you get half lionheads, and half orandas? Or all lionheads or all orandas due to the dorsal fin being dominant or recessive? Of what if you bred a crown pearscale with an oranda? half and half? Or all crown pearscales, or all orandas? Or some pearlscales, some orandas, and some crown pearscales? ...Or what about a commet and a bubbleeye? All comets, some comets, etc. etc. etc. Goldfish genetics to me are utterly confusing.

Aye, Very confusing! LOL I just imagine them to be more complex than other fix. Seeing how there are so many different mutations vs. bettas like I am used to.

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There are 2 kinds of breeding. The commercial kind and "home" kind. So theres different answers for each case.

With commercial professional breeding of goldies you'll have the 2 parent fish carefully selected in an attempt to produce the desired qualities in each parent. It would be very unusual for any commercial breeder to try and breed from- as you say- a mixture of 2 different types like say a lionhead and a black moor.

2 parents of the same type are chosen because that is what the breeders wish to sell. To cross a pearlscale with a comet you would run the risk of producing a less popular looking fish that no-one would recognise or maybe want to buy.

Then theres the home breeding. Fishkeepers like us whose fish are mixed and who may produce unplanned fry. These fry may have very different parents and as a result many variations. There will be strong genes and weak genes of course. The more close the connection to the original carp fish genes the stronger the gene will be. Orange will be the strongest color probably, dorsal fin and single tail will be strongest etc.

However, there will also be an enormous variation. Calculating exact chances and probabilities is very complex..because there is little recorded data/taxonomies of "home" produced fry genetic turn out. Given that "home" fry usually have a much higher mortality rate

it is also difficult to estimate (since so many die) the exact numbers of color/type that were produced. Many "home" produced fry die before 4-5 weeks and so we never get to see their color or final markings and fin shapes.

If you look here at threads in the breeding forum you'll find people here have had an amazing variety of types of fry. Anette/Old Hag hada telescope eye double tail fry from 2 single tail orange common goldies :whatjust: !!!!! I had single tail fish from double tail parent fish. I had a half pearlscale and blackmoor fish from one of each parent, my golden siamese doll fish and white telescope produced fry that were all black! Some of my fry have flat eyes and some have telescope eyes where both parents had telescope eyes! I was constantly surprised by the distance genes travel back and how many variations can happen!!

So, yes they can all be crossed but the most saleable/desired-by- the- majority fish are usually produced by 2 parents of the same

type :)

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Yes, I have had some amazing experiences from breeding goldfish! I get doubletails from 2 single tailed parents and so on, some fry looks exactly like one of their parents, some of them looks like they're not related at all. Breeding is very exciting!

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Does that mean that your goldfish have distant fantail/telescope ancestry, or does it mean that you've had a mutation in your stock? Also, is it hard to get other fancy varieties in Sweden?

[Edit] SWEET LAWD! I'm not a fry anymore, I never thought it'd happen! x_X;

Edited by Allen
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I have no idea if my goldfish has fantail ancestors, they were bought as common pondfish. Last year I got one doubletailed fry, and he had babies this year, they had many tail varieties!

But yes, we don't have many varieties here in Sweden, I have seen orandas, black moors and sometimes pearlscales. That's all.

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I have no idea if my goldfish has fantail ancestors, they were bought as common pondfish. Last year I got one doubletailed fry, and he had babies this year, they had many tail varieties!

But yes, we don't have many varieties here in Sweden, I have seen orandas, black moors and sometimes pearlscales. That's all.

This is very interesting. It all makes sense. I can't wait to see what my fry are going to look like. DANG! I need a tank for these guys. In january, I wanted to get a large tank, but the problem is I need a bigger tank than what they are in. You think a 20g L would be fine until January? I might have to go that route.

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