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Please Help, Possible Septicemia

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Maracyn Two

Background: active ingredient Minocycline, B-complex vitamins. A broad-spectrum antibiotic for internal or external gram negative bacterial infections. Effective treatment of fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease, dropsy, bleeding or red streaks, secondary and internal infections. Effective even when fish won't eat.

Dosage: For freshwater, use 2 tablets per 10 gallons first day and 1 tablet per 10 gallons thereafter. For saltwater, use 1 tablet per 10 gallons first day and 1 tablet per 20 gallons thereafter.

Precautions: As with Maracyn, remove the carbon in the filter for optimal medication effect. Supposedly doesn't harm the beneficial bacteria, and can safely be used in combination with Maracyn, in which case the water parameters need to be watched.

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Is this what you are using? This doesn't treat ich. And I don't think it treats cotton wool, either. Please let us know.....can anyone else chime in on this? I would hate for you to lose those fish after trying so hard, but you may be using the wrong medicine.

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I am using this to treat the specticima. I thought that i would help with ich due to it saying it treats "fin and tail rot" which i thought were the same thing as ich.

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I am using this to treat the specticima. I thought that i would help with ich due to it saying it treats "fin and tail rot" which i thought were the same thing as ich.

Nope...ich is a totally different bug, and very deadly.

Salt cures ick and is very easy on the fish. There is also numerous meds that treat ich, but I am not sure about mixing them with what you are using now. I would hate to advise you wrong on this. But you have to something for the ich, too.

I am hoping that someone will come along with more advice.....

can you also post this information in the 911 section, please! This is an emergency.....mention the ich and the cotton wool, and what you have dosed with so far. You fish can die from this very quickly, and they are already weakened.

I am hoping your fish will be OK.....

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Here's one for cotton wool fungus--

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Fungus.html

I guess loaches can't take the salt? Ok, I had ich in one of my tanks awhile back. I had cories and they don't like salt either. Ich will fall off by itself in a few days and settle to the bottom on the gravel where it will multiply. When it came off my fish I put all of them in a cheap plastic container--about 12 gallon size with an inexpensive filter from Wal mart. Then I salted the heck out of my tank and let it set for a couple days to kill the ich. Then I siphoned all the water out and took out the gravel and rinsed it real good in hot water. I refilled the tank with fresh water and put the fish back in after a few more days so I could make sure the ich didn't reappear on the fish. Some of them did get a couple spots that I was able to scrape off. After all that the ich has never come back and that was almost a year ago now I think--a long time anyway!

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I may follow that. Hopefully I can pick up a 29gallon from a friend, Get it ready for the move, and once It falls off, I will pull just the loaches out in a different tank so I can salt goldies. Or, Like you did, I can take them all into that tank, Treat that with the medication, and go like22 on cleaning my big tank. Not sure which is better since they both involve starting a cycle all over again. Any advice on that?

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As soon as I can, It seems to have fallen off him though. I used my new gravel thing and sucked it out of the water along with as much junk on the substrate as i could

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Sorry for no picture tonight. I would have to say it does look like cotton though. I have pimafix which is said ti help fungus along with this marcyn which says it also helps but I am unsure. My battle plan now is to get another tank and filter tomorrow, move the loaches into that tank, treat the loach tank with ich medicine, salt the goldies and raise the temp while still treating with maracyn. Who knows what will work at this point

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Sorry for no picture tonight. I would have to say it does look like cotton though. I have pimafix which is said ti help fungus along with this marcyn which says it also helps but I am unsure. My battle plan now is to get another tank and filter tomorrow, move the loaches into that tank, treat the loach tank with ich medicine, salt the goldies and raise the temp while still treating with maracyn. Who knows what will work at this point

That sounds like a good plan. You should be able to get rid of that ich that way. You may need to use a different med for the cotton wool, be sure it mixes with salt first! And be sure to salt to the proper concentration, that is also very important. And when you do your water changes with the salt, be sure to only replace salt for the water you removed. Good luck!

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Hello there - I just wanted to say that if it is certain your fish have ich then it is vital to treat this first.

Ich is a parasite and must be eliminated before treating for bacterial infections or anything else. You need to treat the fish in the tank as all the cysts that fall will be in the substrate. Did you get a gravel vac yet?

Are you able to post any pictures at all? It would be very good to get a definitive ID on the fluff/cotton stuff.

I would say it is vital to get the loaches out asap - with them in the tank your hands are tied.

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I've just re-read this whole thread - took some doing!- and I'm afraid the whole thing went off course when you decided to treat with Maracyn. This is a medication for bacterial infections whereas what you needed was perfect water and salt.

Your two main problems were (a) highly toxic water, and (b) ich. The symptoms you originally described were due to these two factors alone. Trinket actually suggested parasites as a cause for the red spots much earlier.

Maracyn does not treat parasites, so this med in my opinion should be stopped.

I would get the loaches out, then do a massive water change to clear the meds -even run carbon- and begin with raising salt and temperature concurrently. The fin rot should improve with salt and good water and the departure of ich. If after several days of salt there is still evidence of fluff/cotton or whatever, we can then try to evaluate whether a fungal or bacterial treatment is needed.

But the order of management should always be water, parasite control, bacteria. Parasites open the fish to bacterial and fungal attack so in treating the latter without the former you are missing the cause and targetting the effects.

Can you post back with your water chem? If your cycle has completely crashed, you may need to control amm/nit with the use of zeolite just for the treatment period and then re-cycle afterwards.

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Goodness, things are spiralling here. I hope Treadthreads will be back on soon. What we are all insisting -water first- is right but the problem seems to be that getting perfect water in this set up is virtually impossible.

What I would do is dump this cycle. It is no use now. Start again. And start with salt. Immediately. It is very difficult for a new-to-fish person to diagnose their own fishes symptoms and I feel with all the other issues going and the state of the water that bacterial issues are certainly going to be present but the parasites must be killed first.

If you can get hold of a rubbermaid or large container similar and treat all the fish for ich in there you will probably have best luck in saving all the fish.Several large rubbermaids or buckets even will do just fine. Make sure you know how many gallons the container/s are for easy salt doing.

If you treat in this tank some of the weaker fish will not make it. Salt, meds, disease uses up valuable dissolved oxygen and water mineral contents that may not be enough to sustain all those sick fish and loaches, not to mention the fact that keeping the water free of ammonia and nitrites for the duration of treatment is a Herculean task even for an experienced keeper.

New water 100%. Temperature match with your little finger. ALL the fish moved out and into 0.1% waiting pristene water. Next day, change out 50% of each tub/rubbermaid and add back salt to get you to 0.2%. Day three> 50% water change salt added to take you to 0.3%. Leave for one day. Post back.

The salt is a salve for all bacterial issues. Salt cures fungal growths in early stages. Salt treats early stage finrot. Salt kills 80% of parasites and most importantly kills ich.

Save the Maracyn for the time coming when the ich has gone -chances are good that the red will go when the parasites have been dealt with, but you'll have it there at hand if not.

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I am preparing the 2nd tank as we speak. I am currently changing the water out of the old tank. Params are still perfect. I will stop wasting maracyn and just cure the ick first.

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:thumbs: Good move and good luck! We are all here for you if you have any questions at all.

PS Do you know how to salt? Here is a link with all the details, please read it carefully.

Edited by Trinket

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Ok. The 2nd tank is just about ready. All Primed up, and adding some anti-ick stuff that can be used on both goldies and loachs. I have another 25g to empty out. Take out all 75lbs of substrate, clean, rinse, put it all back in, and then start filling the 55gallon. Once filled I will get a salt bath going tonight. Tomorrow morning I will add more salt, then tomorrow evening add the goldies back into the tank. This is going to be tough being 11:30 at night and hours of work ahead of me, also hoping no one gets upset by carring bucket and bucket of water back to fill her up. It makes it easier having my beatiful girlfriend as an assisstant ( :) )I just hope the shock of moving the fish twice in such a short amount of time wont stress them too much...

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I have moved this thread for you and will try to merge both your topics as they relate to the same problem. Running different threads on the same subject usually leads to the kind of confusion you don't need right now!

Very glad, Trinket was able to step back in. I think this thread is a very good example of why junior members should not be advising in the Disease Forums; it is very easy to misread symptoms unless one has experience and this can take treatment badly off course.

Edited by Pixiefish

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I have moved this thread for you and will try to merge both your topics as they relate to the same problem. Running different threads on the same subject usually leads to the kind of confusion you don't need right now!

Very glad, Trinket was able to step back in. I think this thread is a very good example of why junior members should not be advising in the Disease Forums; it is very easy to misread symptoms unless one has experience and this can take treatment badly off course.

Like I said in a previous post left a few days ago.....I am new to ONLY this forum, but understand this request. My bad.......(Maybe you didn't see that post, and felt the need to reiterate this again?) I don't see where she was advised by me to use anything BUT salt, decrease the bioload on the tank, and do water changes. Which is what she was advised again, and I hope her fish do well.

Don't worry, I won't make this mistake again. Sorry if I created any problems.

Edited by sweetshannon

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I have moved this thread for you and will try to merge both your topics as they relate to the same problem. Running different threads on the same subject usually leads to the kind of confusion you don't need right now!

Very glad, Trinket was able to step back in. I think this thread is a very good example of why junior members should not be advising in the Disease Forums; it is very easy to misread symptoms unless one has experience and this can take treatment badly off course.

Like I said in a previous post left a few days ago.....I am new to ONLY this forum, but understand this request. My bad.......(Maybe you didn't see that post, and felt the need to reiterate this again?) I don't see where she was advised by me to use anything BUT salt, decrease the bioload on the tank, and do water changes. Which is what she was advised again, and I hope her fish do well.

Don't worry, I won't make this mistake again. Sorry if I created any problems.

Now that I go over the posts again....I also see where I quoted THIS site about cotton-wool, and that quote mentions medicines. I apologize (again) if this was taken as advice to give medication, that was not the intent. I used it to show what the symptoms of that disease are, so she could know a bit more about what her fish might be dealing with. I am not a pro on medications, and deferred to the people who know more.

Mea Culpa

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Shannon did not "advise" me to do anything. I did not want to wait and in other reading found out that maracyn-2 helped others with septiciema. Shannon, if anything, has been a great help and showed alot of concern, which I thank her for. I made all the choices so far off my own ideas and research. If I dont try my own ideas, I will never learn what really works and what doesnt. But I thank you all for your contiunued support. They are all still in the 29gallon as im getting the 2nd one ready. The goldies will be transfered in tomorrow.

(P.S shannon, my little icon in the corner means im a he, not a she ;) )

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I think some of the confusion has actually been in the term fungus. Time and again columnaris (a bacterial disease that produces traily cottony threads on the fish and also some grey patches that resemble fungus but are not) is called cotton wool disease. Actually true fungus is not traily and thread like -it is a plant like mould. Misleadingly true fungal infections are also called cotton wool disease :thud . Here lies the confusion. The thing about true fungus is that the meds used to treat them actaully rip away some of the outer cells, being unable to differentiate between epithelial cells and fungal cells (the structure is very similar) which is not good for bacterial sores and ulcers. So distinguishing between true fungus and columnaris (more common)before medicating for one or other is very important. Its also one reason I try and avoid use of that name cotton wool disease :o

Pixie was just doing her job and trying to make sure the meds were on target. This is a family forum unlike some forums we have members as young as 10 here reading these threads for advice and they can get easily confused. Shannon was spot on about the salt and meant well with her support and advice. Anyway, things seem to be going better now- Treads4threads -we are all after the same thing, recovery of your fish :)

How are things today?

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I want to think they are looking better. Color seems to be a little better. Blood seems to be coming out of the tails. They are not in the big tank yet. Everyoen still has ich though, which doesnt make me happy.

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