Jump to content

Comet Not Opening Mouth Fully, Trouble Eating


Mark_C

Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

just over 2 hours and water is still purple coloured, but my biggest comet has just started bottom sitting.

They were all swimming trhough the bubbles a lot for first 2 hours, then this one (who showed no signs of problems before) has started to sit on the bottom, he is by far the hardest to catch as well, my first thought was to try the net and move him to the small tank, but as soon as he saw it he started to swim quickly away.

I don't want to chase him and stress him too much, any suggestions?

The other 2 are swimmng as normal.

I have known this one to bottom sit sometimes at night, and the covers have been on the tank so it is very dark, but he usually gets up straight away when he sees me come into the room

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 147
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Thanks,

I will watch closely for a while, he did it again and sat there for a few minutes, and I put the net in the water, but as soon as he saw it he started swimming very quickly again

I don't know if he is just in a bad mood, or if he is having problems, he certainly has plenty of energy when he thinks I am going to try and catch him.

None of them are gasping or antyhing, what might be wrong if he is bottom sitting?

I have taken the covers off now so they have natural light, I suppose if it starts to de-activate now it's not so much of a problem as they have had 3 hours already

Edited by Mark_C
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I spoke to the fish shop guy and he said he often sees them bottom sit for persiods of time when he uses PP.

they are all swimming normally again at the moment so I won't worry too much

I also asked him what strength he had mixed the Pp solution at, and he wouldn't tell me, he said they have to keep stuff secret to stop others making their own :rolleyes: (what a stupid comment)

I am not so impressed with that store now, as with any meds we buy it is nice to know what strength/ingredients are used, if I knew what strength the solution had been mixed at then it would help with knowing whether to coninue treating.

So I am still unsure whether to treat the with PP again tomorrow, or follow his advice of only treating once per week at the most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

woohoo

They spent about 5 and half hours in the PP, and the 2 healthy ones started to bottom sit again, so I decided it was time to change water, I did just under 50% change, and toppped up the salt to keep it 0.2%

They are swimming happily now :)

Strangely enough Splash seemed perfectly happy throughout his time in the PP, it was the others who didn't seem to like it so much.

The water was still slightly pinkish when I took it out, but had definitely lost most of that hue, there is a slight brown coating over just about everything in the tank so I guess it has done its job

I have kept the filter media out still (in its own aerated bucket) and the plants, I thought I would see if there were any opinions about whether to repeat the PP tomorrow or not.

If not I will put them back tonight.

Will give them a little food later, and will get Splash into the breeder basket to see if he manages to eat

Edited by Mark_C
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Great job, Mark! :exactly

That must have been a little nerve wracking for you, not knowing for sure how things would go with the different PP and instructions.

I'm so glad to hear that the fish survived it all well!! :panana I hope it will help Splash make a quick recovery!

Once again, :goodjob !!!!!

Debbie

*Edit* I can't go without saying... Isn't Trinket great?? :thumbs: She helped me with my Smokey!

She goes all out to help - and then gives even more! :heart

Edited by Fishy Fish
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Debs :hi

Mark- I'm back. Are you there? What's the latest news? How are the fish now? Is everyone eating and most important has Splash managed to eat something?

Sounds like its been quite an ordeal for everyone. You included. I was anxious to be honest about the 2 fish not displaying symptoms going through this. Bless Fishmerised for stopping by there at a crucial moment...hoping for an update soon :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi All,

Sorry for the slow update, I had to go out to do some work for a few hours, I have been spending all my time with the fishies and it caught up with me.

They were great before I went out, I gave them a little food but Splash still struggled, he did seem to open his mouth more often, but still didn't manage to suck much (if any) food in, he has got really tame now too which is making it even harder to see him like this :( The white spot is still there, and is raised, I don't know how long it will take to go, or when he may be able to open his mouth and suck properly again, I really hope he can

I also noticed a very small hole in one of the fins on the other Comet, like a pin prick, I had never seen this before

They are going a bit crazy now that I am back though, they are darting round the tank quite a bit, foraging for food in the gravel, and for a few minutes had some kind of invisible barrier in the tank they simply would not cross, it was very strange behaviour like they were scared of one end of the tank???

I want to test the water params, will the salt affect the readings in any way? Their odd behaviour makes me want to check all is OK.

I was wondering whether to hold off the 3rd salt dose too as they are acting a bit odd.

But I will get the filter media back in now, if I have to treat again with PP I will do Splash seperately next time

Will the plants be OK with the salt dose too?

Thanks again to all of you for your help and encouragement, it really is appreciated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hi Mark. Yes I would run the full battery of tests immediately. Thats what I always do first sign of something not quite right. Its probably adjustment to all the changes making them seem stressed.

What I suggest now is to get them back into a routine keeping stress to a minimum. Is there any brown left? I can't see the tank but I think it should be okay to put everything back in again. Point to note: plants do not do well in salt so I would leave the plants where they are another few days. I think if the fish seem stressed leave the salt at 0.2% only. It's enough.

Reading back I am surprised the man didn't tell you the ratio of PP. Actually I think that's mighty odd. Anyway your fish have survived although I do wonder if the pinprick hole is not in fact a caustic burn. The salt will help heal it.

The main thing is to get the fish comfy, happy and normalised again now.

Did you ever try the mushy peas? Is Splash able to suck in a flake? Anything at all?

PS The salt does not affect the water readings.

Edited by Trinket
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

They seem fine again now, they were just having a mad half hour I think, I will keep an eye on them for a few hours though.

I have just carried out PH (low and High), ammonia and nitrite tests, all are OK, I didn't check for nitrates as I figured I didn't have the cycled filter running anyway.

There is slight brown on the glass (where there had been some algae) and a slight brown coating on the stuff in the tank (ornaments and fake plants, and power head) but the water seems clear now, it was straight after my water change (was 20 gallon change so just under the 50%)

The wool/floss filter pads are very brown

Is the brown on the surfaces OK?

I tried some peas, didn't manage to eat them, should I cook first or just defrost? maybe if I cook for a while they would be mushier. Except for the couple of flakes he sucked in the other day he cant seem to suck much or anything into his mouth, I have been trying with flake, granules, Pea, orange, and a few drops of fry food, he may of got some of this but it disperses so quikly its hard to tell

I am really unhappy with the fish shop guy not telling me what ratio that PP was mixed, I think its ridiculous

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The brown is actually not a bad thing. It is deactivated and what remains still contains slight oxidising properties apparantly- without anything else thats a good thing. Clean it up later on, no hurry about it. Get the media back in and running ASAP. Hopefully there won't be a cycle bump but you'll have to be extra viligant about watching over the next week just in case you get a flash of ammonia reading up.

I think you've done well. PP is a very good killer of all the bacteria, moulds and parasites that are responsible for fungal growths, mouth rot etc...I am sure they've gone. I think you still have a wounded soldier though and while it will not get worse Splash will still need some time to fully recover eating co-ordination.

The pinprick hole is classic caustic burn. It must have been pretty strong that formula I think. I wonder what Mads will say about it when she gets back next week..

The peas need to be microwaved in water in a cup until they get very soft. Take off the hard outer part. The inside is like green soup- perfect scraped on your finger or a wet earbud/other end of toothpick etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The filters are back in, I hope they will be OK, is it worth adding any of the water they were kept in to the tank?

or maybe add some of the Pura Water? it is supposed to contain good bacteria/micro organisms and is reccomended for speeding up activation of new bio filters, as well as for keeping amonia down, breaking down waste etc............of course it may just be some more expensive rubbish the fish shop like to sell LOL, do you think it may help?

It's strange that only the one fish got the caustic burn, he was the one who did some bottom sitting too, although he soon perked up when he thought I was going to remove him.

Splash seemed completely not bothered by the PP in the tank, he continued to swim happily and come to the glass as normal, its odd how they are affected in different ways.

I will give the cooked peas a try

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Do you keep that Purawater in the fridge? Those bacteria are difficult to keep potent and are very fragile..I dont really use them but some do. There are many opines on their usefulness.

When I did buy some once my favorite fishstore keeper (who also breeds himself and is extremely knowledgable about fishcare) acted like lightning taking the bottle out of the fridge, wrapping it around a frozen ice block and then in dark clingwrap & 3 layers of newspaper with urgent instructions to get home within the next 10 minutes (had I been browsing his store too long perhaps :hmm )..or render the biobacs inactive :idont

So...don't really know how effective that stuff is :D If its fresh it cant hurt I guess.

Yes it might be worth using the bucket water sooner rather than later..(no aeration they die fast).

Good luck with Splash's next pea meal.

Hope you can relax a bit now and let us know how things go with feeding and improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The Pura Water is kept in the cupboard, fish shop doesnt keep it cold either, and the bottle doesn't say anything about refridgerating, it probably doesn't do much :rolleyes: but I will add some anyway.

My local fish shops here are completely uninterested, except in selling you more stuff you dont need, I got my water tested a few times, I have a bottle of PH down as one of them reccomended I use it as they said it is too high at 7.5, I did some research before I used it and changed my mind

So it sits unopened in the cupboard next to the Algae-Fix, I tried that after reccomendations from the fish shop, within a minute the fish all sat on the bottom, I did an immediate 50% water change that day, and another 25% the next, now I just wipe the algae off the glass, and clean the ornaments with hot water when they get too bad.

There have been other things they have recomended that I bought, then researched when I got home, and took them straight back for refunds

So I don't trust the local fish shops here too much, they are not much help, I thought this new guy was OK till his daft comment about not giving out his PP recipe in case his competitors would learn the secret, :D ,

I think I am running out of fish shops to go to in this town LOL

The bucket water was pretty dirty, so used a little from the top, I was worried about there possibly being bad bacteria in it??

I will cook some peas in the morning and give them a go, I have been feeding them very small bits today to make sure there was no waste, just tried a little flake again and Splash was having a good go but didn't manage it, perhaps a few hours of healing may help now.

The smallest one (Splosh, my Common goldie) is still fairly spooky and hyper, he is the most hyper of them anyway but he is more than usual tonight, hopefully all is Ok though

I will post an update tomorrow

BTW

the bigger comet is called Splish, the kids named them, going on size from biggest to smallest, they are Splish, Splash and Splosh, and as far as my kids are concerned they are a Daddy, Mummy and baby,

so I keep being corrected and told that Splash is a girl and I should not say "Him" they are worried too, as they really love the fishies

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I know. And its a good education for them that you are looking after their pets so carefully and conscientiously :) I think all will get better now in the ammonia/nitrite free salted water. Food is still your main concern.

Fishstores are first and foremost businesses. Even the ones that start up with the best intentions in the world (flyers on fish care and the nitrogen cycle..fish kept well) end up being most concerned with sale statistics. By the way tha lagae fix is terrible stuff. If you overdo it even slightly it can kill the fish. Algae is your tanks best friend. Just wipe the front of the tank on both sides and leave the rest.

I have 2 sides of algae in every tank. It is very useful nutrition. The fish can snack on it. I wipe off any brown algae but leave a carpet of green spot algae in allocated areas. It helps keep nitrates down and is a natural assistant in the production of dissolved oxygen in the daytime.

Well, am off to work now and will be back for sure to see how all is later tonight. Good luck with the pea feeding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Still no luck with feeding Splash today :(

I have tried some peas, (also tried with a cotton bud) some flake and some granules, she chases them and tries really hard but still can't pick them up.

On the plus side she is opening her mouth more often, but the top lip is still sticking right out, and her lower jaw still looks skewif

I was trying to get a look in her mouth but she was not really in the mood to be handled at all today, and I didn't want to cause any more stress.

She is trying to nibble at the sides of the breeder net so maybe some residue or algae is there, but as I haven't seen any poop for days I doubt there is much food going in.

The white spot is still the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If its any comfort at all Mark, I was just remembering one tiny fry I have who had her fins eaten by another fish and developed as a result the same mouth infection. It did heal for her with salt and good water. I could not use meds you see as you cant with very tiny fish. But I do remember the jaw was jutting out and the mouth skewif and she was spitting out food.

I just wish someone knew how we could get some food into your little one.

I dont know that looking in her mouth any more is going to help really. You say she opened it a few times and you couldnt see anything then - dont want to stress her any more.

When she is chasing food does she sort of snuff it away or just cant open her mouth still to get it? I'm trying to imagine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I was wondering if I could get her head up and syringe some in if she opened her mouth, so I was trying to get her used to being lifted, but I really dont hold out much hope for that method, I really wish I could find a way to get food in her too.

When the food is floating she gets under it and just sort of nudges it away,

when it is sinking she just sort of rolls her top lip at it and usually doesn't get her lower jaw to open much, but when she does she still doesn't seem to suck the food in.

When the food is on the bottom she nudges at it and gets it to bounce up, then does the same with the lip again.

When she opens her mouth quite wide it is a bit slow, and the top lip still seems to stick out further, and doesnt seem to have as much control as the other fish when they do it

also the others will open ther lower jaw sometimes without rolling their lip out, but she doesn't do that now.

I will tr and get a video clip I think, it may explain it better

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

What about her behavior- is she swimming well, lively? The mouth still sounds like a problem. I wonder if there is not a sore place way back in the throat where the fish tooth is that grinds the food.

Have you seen any poop yet?

Did you get her to eat anything at all today? I am thinking the force feeding- liquid fry food in the syringe -may be the route now.

Not too much at a time-about 1.5 ml a go if you can. Fingers and toes crossed for good news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Trinket,

She is swimming well, ad her behaviour is fine, she is extremely friendly and is constantly trying to get my attention for food, she is very energetic when she chases it too.

No luck with the food again today, but I will give her another go later tonight, I will try and get a minute to make a video clip to show what happens too.

Still no sign of poop, but I haven't had very much time today to watch her.

She is definitely opening her mouth more now when she comes to the surface or to the glass, so I see that as a promising sign, but the problem is whether she will get enough control of her mouth in time to get some nourishment.

If she is still not having any luck by tomorrow I will start trying to get her to feed from the syringe, she is a bit reluctant to get into the breeder basket just now, and if I try around the others they will be grabbing at the syringe, and it is much harder to catch her in a big tank. I will keep trying and hopefully she will get happy with the idea.

The white spot is still much the same too I think, do you think she may need more treatment? or maybe I should put that 3rd dose of salt in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member
She is definitely opening her mouth more now when she comes to the surface or to the glass, so I see that as a promising sign,

That is definitely promising.

The white spot is still much the same too I think, do you think she may need more treatment? or maybe I should put that 3rd dose of salt in?

That white pimple was caused by the flexibacter bacteria -its the tell tale sign of external columnaris with the mouth issues. Unless it turns red these are not usually something to worry too much over.I doubt it will get worse now because I doubt if you still have many of the culprits left in the tank after that PP. If the PP was strong enough to cause a caustic burn then it was strong enough by far to kill the bacteria overload. The only concern is Splash's immunity. It needs food and vitamins to function properly and asist in total recovery.

As for more meds. It will do no harm to go up to 0.3% salt. Except maybe to the plants. I cannot gaurantee it will work but its probably what I would do. .All the treatments are less reliable without nutrition. As for the PP- I recommend you do not do another bath in the tank. It is possible to do a dip (bucket treatment at high strengtyh for very short time) or a topical application of PP. thats a last resort I feel.

Now about food. Do you have any suction clips or plastic food clips that you could get on to the side of the tank? You can put pieces of food in the tank like peeled apple or boiled piece of brocolli that he might be able to graze on. You never know and I think its really

worth trying. Heres a not very good pic of apeice of preboiled zuchinni/courgette on a clip stuck to the side jfry019.jpg

And heres a pic of the kind of green wall algae that is excellent for sick fish-indeed all fish to nibble on.

IMGP0914.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Still not having much luck with her feeding, but she is still much the same in terms of activity and energy, she spends a lot of time around the back of the powerhead and intake pipe, and also around the net in the breeder basket, so I wonder if she is managng to get some algae or micro food stuffs from them.

Unfortunately there is not really any nice green algae in the tank for her to eat, I have been running the lights for muh longer to try and encourage some growth though.

I couldn't find anything very safe to hang some food on, but I am off tomorrow so will see if I can pick up something at a fish/pet store, and we can try to hang some food for her.

I was also wodering about the algae wafers I have heard of, do you think they may be a good idea? I have ever seen them, but I am wondering if perhaps the others may leave them alone, the biggest problem with most of the feeding attempts is how quickly the other 2 snatch the food away from her, so if I could find something that perhaps she could nibble/suck at that they leave alone we may get some improvement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I'll bet shes trying to suck some of the leftover food bits off of the intake tube. My fish do that and also as you say molecules stuck in the netting of the breeder net. Perhaps she is getting a little of something after all.

Any kind of plastic suction clip will work. Avoid metals. that would be great if you could fix up a selfservice that way. Algae wafers are sold as food for tropical catfish like plecs. The pic above of the courgette has a plec stuck on it!! He eats algae wafers. All my goldies do too. They get them at least once a week. You can throw in 3, one each so they dont fight- and they take ages kicking them around the tank like they are playing soccer and eventually the wafers begin to disintegrate a little and tiny pieces come off and they can be sucked on. They are a really great idea for Splash!! they are packed full of vitamins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

That sounds good, I will get some tomorrow and see how we go, I havent increased the salt dose yet as I was wondering whether to put the plants back in, as they have some algae on them, but this sounds like a good idea, will increase the salt tomorrow and try and sort out something for her to graze on.

I may try her wafer in the breeder basket again, but I have found the others swim underneath it now and suck flake and granules through the bottom of the net.

Just had a panik a few moments ago, my Daughter saw my little common (Splosh) with a stone stuk in it's mouth, but he soon spat it, she was a bit panicky though, it's good that she has this interest in them, she has a day off school tomorrow, and I am off too, so she can help me with them tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Just looked at some of my replies above, looks like my 'c' key is a bit tempermental, either that or my typing has just got very bad :D

Anyway back to the patient

The algae wafers seem very popular in my tank, and they are all interested in them, I put Splash's one in the breeder basket to give her more time with it, she has been nibbling at it for about 1 hour.

Unfortunately my fiesty little common is also attacking it from underneath too, but this may help as when he attacks it it bounces up and probably breaks up a bit more, making it easier for Splash to get some of it.

She hasn't lost interest yet so that's a good sign, hopefully she is getting some food from it.

I also put a clip in with some zuchinni on it, I boiled this till it was quite soft and she had a few moments at this too, I have set it up so the others cannot reach it for now in the basket. How long do you boil this for normally?

I am going to keep an eye on her today as I am working at home, and my daughter will help too, hopefully we will have fed her by the end of the day.

She is also coming up and trying to nibble at my fingers, opening her mouth more each day, so I may try the syringe as well.

Fingers crossed this looks quite promising

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...